Did Majin Boo's Defeat Contribute To Janemba's Creation?

[VegettoEX]

Please provide evidence the the Daiz 6 actually stated that M12 events is taking place during the Boo arc while Boo is on some holiday while the Z Senshi handle Janemba and his antics, otherwise your claims are the very definition of head canon conjecture.

(Adapting from an old translation of Jake's:)

"We can infer that this is an event during the middle of the battle with Majin Boo from the fact that Super Saiyan 3 Goku mentions Majin Boo's name during the course of the movie, the appearance of Gotenks, and the fact that Vegeta is dead."

Daizenshuu 6 ("Movies & TV Specials"), page 142, kicking off the section on DBZ movie 12.

If I may add from an administrative standpoint: "Interesting! Could you show me where it says something like that?" might be a better post than "proof or lulz your head cannons".

[theherodjl]

Please provide evidence the the Daiz 6 actually stated that M12 events is taking place during the Boo arc while Boo is on some holiday while the Z Senshi handle Janemba and his antics, otherwise your claims are the very definition of head canon conjecture.

(Adapting from an old translation of Jake's:)

"We can infer that this is an event during the middle of the battle with Majin Boo from the fact that Super Saiyan 3 Goku mentions Majin Boo's name during the course of the movie, the appearance of Gotenks, and the fact that Vegeta is dead."

Daizenshuu 6 ("Movies & TV Specials"), page 142, kicking off the section on DBZ movie 12.

If I may add from an administrative standpoint: "Interesting! Could you show me where it says something like that?" might be a better post than "proof or lulz your head cannons".

There's something, but it still doesn't answer where Majin Boo actually is in the movie. Just that he was around at some point prior to Goku's fight with Janemba, is there any more to this quote or is that all it says?

[VegettoEX]

There's something, but it still doesn't answer where Majin Boo actually is in the movie. Just that he was around at some point prior to Goku's fight with Janemba, is there any more to this quote or is that all it says?

No. That is all it says. The above time chart simply puts the movie (listed in red) in between Goku transforming into Super Saiyan 3 and the climax of the battle with Boo.

[Grimlock]

I had that image the whole time but I didn't remember that it was there that's said the time of the movie placement.

Hopefully with that image now posted, people here stop guessing movies are what-if, because they are not. That explicitly also answers the thread's question; that is "no".

[theherodjl]

I had that image the whole time but I didn't remember that it was there that's said the time of the movie placement.

Hopefully with that image now posted, people here stop guessing movies are what-if, because they are not. That explicitly also answers the thread's question; that is "no".

Not necessarily, what has been answered is Majin Boo was not defeated because at the end of the day no one knows where he actually is in the alternate dimension of M12. However it can still be a what-if because Goku never simply returned to his training like how the beginning of M12 depicts it, he instead went directly to Gohan after returning to the afterlife but Gohan was not there and still on Earth.
M12 is a what-if, but not the particular what-if I was thinking about.

[VegettoEX]

Hopefully with that image now posted, people here stop guessing movies are what-if, because they are not. That explicitly also answers the thread's question; that is "no".

This isn't accurate. Often times they'll state how things can't work. For example, for DBZ movie 2 it says: "However, there are also inconsistencies such as Gohan being on Earth when he should be in the middle of fighting on Planet Namek." Movie 3 says: "However, there are inconsistencies, like the stage being set on Earth, that make it fair to say that this is a movie-only story."

The entire point of these movies are to be "what if?" side-stories not set in the main continuity. This has never been in question and has been transparent from the beginning.

It's fun to think about how they might fit, but that's not what they're made to be.

[Grimlock]

This isn't accurate. Often times they'll state how things can't work. For example, for DBZ movie 2 it says: "However, there are also inconsistencies such as Gohan being on Earth when he should be in the middle of fighting on Planet Namek." Movie 3 says: "However, there are inconsistencies, like the stage being set on Earth, that make it fair to say that this is a movie-only story."

The entire point of these movies are to be "what if?" side-stories not set in the main continuity. This has never been in question and has been transparent from the beginning.

Then we should throw Toriyama's words out of the window? The man himself said the movies did happen. If something happens, then it's not what-if, or am I mistaken about it? If I happen to be wrong, then even Toriyama calling Dragon Ball GT a "side-story" wouldn't be accurate either, the correct term would be "what-if" too.

[Meshack]

Majin-Boo did not die around Janenba arrival. Daizenshuu says that the Dragon Team should be dealing with Boo but are focusing on Janenba and the other villains.

No use saying that. People here think their "headcanon" is above official information and so they ignore it as if they were wrong information or something.

Guys, guys...! If Gokuh was still dead, Vegeta died, Trunks and Goten could transform into Gotenks, and Gokuh fought Boo... that means Gokuh never went to check-up Gohan. At this point, Gohan would have been in the Kaiohshin Realm on Kaiohshin’s Planet. But, he was still on Earth. This also begs the question, “What was Mr. Satan doing?”

There’s literally no one this movie could have happened with the statements and where the characters are. It’s in the alternate dimension where these events could have happened even with the circumstances even though that would be weird.

I could see it as Gokuh checking up on Gohan and Gohan returns to the earth and Gokuh returns to the other world, Vegeta stays dead until given his body back by Emma-Daioh to fight Janenba, and Piccolo successfully taught Trunks and Goten how to do the Fusion dance.

There's a dialogue where Goku says to Janemba that " the last one" who made him uses his ssj3 form was Majin Boo, so I interpretated he was the one who defeated him. After that, he returned to Kami-Sama's Temple and taught Goten and Trunks the fusion. As Majin Boo was already defeated, they didn't need to reach ssj3, that's the reason he only appears in his ssj1 form.

If Gokuh defeated Boo, there would have been no reason for him to have Piccolo teach Trunks and Goten Fusion. Daizenshuu 6 says they should have been focused on Majin-Boo so this implies he did not die.

Please provide evidence the the Daiz 6 actually stated that M12 events is taking place during the Boo arc while Boo is on some holiday while the Z Senshi handle Janemba and his antics, otherwise your claims are the very definition of head canon conjecture.

Here: https://imgur.com/gallery/PKwdO

[theherodjl]

Here: https://imgur.com/gallery/PKwdO

VegettoEX already posted the scan along with the translation.

This isn't accurate. Often times they'll state how things can't work. For example, for DBZ movie 2 it says: "However, there are also inconsistencies such as Gohan being on Earth when he should be in the middle of fighting on Planet Namek." Movie 3 says: "However, there are inconsistencies, like the stage being set on Earth, that make it fair to say that this is a movie-only story."

The entire point of these movies are to be "what if?" side-stories not set in the main continuity. This has never been in question and has been transparent from the beginning.

Then we should throw Toriyama's words out of the window? The man himself said the movies did happen. If something happens, then it's not what-if, or am I mistaken about it? If I happen to be wrong, then even Toriyama calling Dragon Ball GT a "side-story" wouldn't be accurate either, the correct term would be "what-if" too.

It would make more sense for them to be completely different stories to be true alternate dimensions rather than be spinoffs of events that occur in the main universe. Each movie arguably does not occur in the same cinematic universe and just happen to have played out at several different instances during various sagas, that sounds like a collection of what-if tales to me.
If Toriyama wanted the films to be a secondary form of canon besides his own work then he would have put it on the same tier as the manga and anime, he didn't say that however. He simply say they occur in an alternate dimension with no intented specification that it occurs as another storyline, the movies come and go individually with no additional viewing into each film's universe like an anthology series.

[Meshack]

The stories are not what-ifs like Episode of Barduck

[VegettoEX]

You're being pedantic past the point of reason even for a Kanzenshuu discussion.

Obviously they "happen". DBZ movie 3 happens in the continuity of... well, DBZ movie 3. But it doesn't happen in the main series continuity.

Everyone agrees on this. Everyone knows and realizes this.

[shadowmaria]

On the note of Movie 12 and Ultimate Gohan, his design indicates he's in his Ultimate / Mystic / Elder Kai Unlock Ability form;

Spoiler:

The way I look at it, Movie 12 takes place in a reality where Gohan stopped Super Buu.

[Duo]

On the note of Movie 12 and Ultimate Gohan, his design indicates he's in his Ultimate / Mystic / Elder Kai Unlock Ability form;

Spoiler:

The way I look at it, Movie 12 takes place in a reality where Gohan stopped Super Buu.

That's about the way I figure it. I enjoy the idea of Movie 12 as an alternate ending to DBZ. Just need Gohan to strategy his way through Buu until the Gotenks fusion wears off. The plot could use his injuries from stalling as sufficient suspense.

[shadowmaria]

On the note of Movie 12 and Ultimate Gohan, his design indicates he's in his Ultimate / Mystic / Elder Kai Unlock Ability form;

Spoiler:

The way I look at it, Movie 12 takes place in a reality where Gohan stopped Super Buu.

That's about the way I figure it. I enjoy the idea of Movie 12 as an alternate ending to DBZ. Just need Gohan to strategy his way through Buu until the Gotenks fusion wears off. The plot could use his injuries from stalling as sufficient suspense.

Not even that, just strategy himself to beating Super Buu during their first fight, before Gotenks is involved again

[Duo]

On the note of Movie 12 and Ultimate Gohan, his design indicates he's in his Ultimate / Mystic / Elder Kai Unlock Ability form;

Spoiler:

The way I look at it, Movie 12 takes place in a reality where Gohan stopped Super Buu.

That's about the way I figure it. I enjoy the idea of Movie 12 as an alternate ending to DBZ. Just need Gohan to strategy his way through Buu until the Gotenks fusion wears off. The plot could use his injuries from stalling as sufficient suspense.

Not even that, just strategy himself to beating Super Buu during their first fight, before Gotenks is involved again

Sounds a little anti-climactic to have him beat somebody way weaker than him, but it's just a bit of fun mental gymnastics anyway.

[Grimlock]

On the note of Movie 12 and Ultimate Gohan, his design indicates he's in his Ultimate / Mystic / Elder Kai Unlock Ability form;

Spoiler:

The way I look at it, Movie 12 takes place in a reality where Gohan stopped Super Buu.

No, it doesn't. The first image you took belongs to Movie 13, right when he transforms into Ultimate form.

And you yourself proved wrong, the first image shows Gohan with long bang without the strand (Ultimate form), the following two images (Movie 12); short bang and one strand (base form).

[dbgtFO]

On the note of Movie 12 and Ultimate Gohan, his design indicates he's in his Ultimate / Mystic / Elder Kai Unlock Ability form;

Spoiler:

The way I look at it, Movie 12 takes place in a reality where Gohan stopped Super Buu.

That first image is from movie 13, movie 12 doesn't have such a power up scene for the supposed Ultimate Gohan.

[shadowmaria]

You're absolutely right, I've removed that image from my original post now

[Trickster]

There's a dialogue where Goku says to Janemba that " the last one" who made him uses his ssj3 form was Majin Boo, so I interpretated he was the one who defeated him. After that, he returned to Kami-Sama's Temple and taught Goten and Trunks the fusion. As Majin Boo was already defeated, they didn't need to reach ssj3, that's the reason he only appears in his ssj1 form.

If Gokuh defeated Boo, there would have been no reason for him to have Piccolo teach Trunks and Goten Fusion. Daizenshuu 6 says they should have been focused on Majin-Boo so this implies he did not die.

Goku was determined to pass his responsibility as an Earth protector to the next generation, so I think it's natural he taught the fusion to them even if Majin Boo was already defeated.

[Trickster]

Please provide evidence the the Daiz 6 actually stated that M12 events is taking place during the Boo arc while Boo is on some holiday while the Z Senshi handle Janemba and his antics, otherwise your claims are the very definition of head canon conjecture.

(Adapting from an old translation of Jake's:)

"We can infer that this is an event during the middle of the battle with Majin Boo from the fact that Super Saiyan 3 Goku mentions Majin Boo's name during the course of the movie, the appearance of Gotenks, and the fact that Vegeta is dead."

Daizenshuu 6 ("Movies & TV Specials"), page 142, kicking off the section on DBZ movie 12.

If I may add from an administrative standpoint: "Interesting! Could you show me where it says something like that?" might be a better post than "proof or lulz your head cannons".

It is kind of weird, isn't it? 'Cause Goku was fighting in that King Kai's Tournament. It doesn't feel like "the middle of Boo's battle" at all.