Jiren's strength?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Jiren's strength?
There has been a theory going on including a few Youtube Anime Reviewers ( such as KOL ) that state Jiren's strength did not surpass Time, but rather surpassed Hit's Ki and that is how Jiren was able to move and if a more powerful person than Jiren uses the same technique, Jiren will not be able to move.
If this was the case than how did Guldo manage to freeze stronger characters than him in time? Vegeta was frozen as well and was not capable of moving, even though he was much stronger than Guldo.
I'm not stating that Jiren is 4 Dimensional but rather that his strength is so immense that it can "break" time.
Juggernaut from Marvel was capable of achieving a similar trait. He punched so hard that his punch went through Time and Space. Even though Juggernaut is not 4 - Dimensional himself, but he used the Energy of Cyttorak to summon the immense power needed for it and with shear strength punched through Time itself.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
What is your opinion on this theory. Did Jiren simply overpower Hit or did he really move through time ?
If this was the case than how did Guldo manage to freeze stronger characters than him in time? Vegeta was frozen as well and was not capable of moving, even though he was much stronger than Guldo.
I'm not stating that Jiren is 4 Dimensional but rather that his strength is so immense that it can "break" time.
Juggernaut from Marvel was capable of achieving a similar trait. He punched so hard that his punch went through Time and Space. Even though Juggernaut is not 4 - Dimensional himself, but he used the Energy of Cyttorak to summon the immense power needed for it and with shear strength punched through Time itself.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
What is your opinion on this theory. Did Jiren simply overpower Hit or did he really move through time ?
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2218
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
- Location: The Planes of Lexington
Re: Jiren's strength?
I think he just overpowered Hit.
The Tournament Of Power exists within a void that is not located in any of the 12 universes or Zeno's realm so its outside of established time/space dimensions, this could be a reason as to why Hit's powers aren't seemingly as broken as they were before. He has to retreat to his own personal dimension where his abilities work but it may not respond accordingly in the world of void, additionally he is not allowed to kill his opponent so he is prevented from using potential kill shots as per the rules.
Jiren seems to have mastered some form of meditation that allows him to be aware of his surroundings at any given time besides having immense strength even greater than his universe's Hakaishin, he might be able to instantly detect Hit's incoming blows via his extremely refined sense. Hit's ability to hold a user in time must also cost him stamina similar to Guldo's time freeze, he was struggling heavily to hold Jiren while in comparison Jiren had hardly spent any energy.
Its probably the conditions of the environment and the sheer power of his opponent that cost Hit a victory, he can't be "beyond time" in a world that doesn't have time.
The Tournament Of Power exists within a void that is not located in any of the 12 universes or Zeno's realm so its outside of established time/space dimensions, this could be a reason as to why Hit's powers aren't seemingly as broken as they were before. He has to retreat to his own personal dimension where his abilities work but it may not respond accordingly in the world of void, additionally he is not allowed to kill his opponent so he is prevented from using potential kill shots as per the rules.
Jiren seems to have mastered some form of meditation that allows him to be aware of his surroundings at any given time besides having immense strength even greater than his universe's Hakaishin, he might be able to instantly detect Hit's incoming blows via his extremely refined sense. Hit's ability to hold a user in time must also cost him stamina similar to Guldo's time freeze, he was struggling heavily to hold Jiren while in comparison Jiren had hardly spent any energy.
Its probably the conditions of the environment and the sheer power of his opponent that cost Hit a victory, he can't be "beyond time" in a world that doesn't have time.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter
- apex_pretador
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 pm
Re: Jiren's strength?
Trion Juggernaut will punch Jiren to deathLiquir wrote: Juggernaut from Marvel was capable of achieving a similar trait. He punched so hard that his punch went through Time and Space. Even though Juggernaut is not 4 - Dimensional himself, but he used the Energy of Cyttorak to summon the immense power needed for it and with shear strength punched through Time itself.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
What is your opinion on this theory. Did Jiren simply overpower Hit or did he really move through time ?
On topic, Hit has shown himself to be time-manipulator of highest order. Had Jiren simply remained unaffected from all of Hit's attacks, then Vados's statements about "Jiren's power surpasses time" would have made sense. However, Hit's time skip was working fine on Jiren. Hit's time cage attack also restrained Jiren and almost knocked him out. Had he been a few inches closer to the edge, Jiren would've been defeated. Hit was heavily straining himself when locked in.
With that said, Jiren moving while trapped in a time-cage is more than just "overpowering Hit" because even before Hit began to get tired, Jiren was able to
1. Stop his push towards the edge, and heal himself
2. Move, although with difficulty
This shows that Jiren should be capable of moving through stopped time, but with difficulty
Re: Jiren's strength?
I think Jiren's ability to overcome the cage may have just been a product of time dilation. Because of the relativistic observation of both characters, thanks in large part to Jiren's enormous power advantage affording him greater velocity, it enabled the Pride Trooper to overcome the temporal barrier constructed around him in what appeared to be a fairly short amount of time. From Jiren's point of view, he could have been incapacitated for a considerable amount of time, though.
Re: Jiren's strength?
Just a figure of speech of Jiren's Ki being above Hit's time techniques.
We seen it before with Goku breaking Time skip with higher Ki level.
We seen it before with Goku breaking Time skip with higher Ki level.
- Polyphase Avatron
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6643
- Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am
Re: Jiren's strength?
Guldo and Hit's techniques work differently.
To use another analogy, in Doctor Who there is something called a time lock. It can essentially isolate or freeze a being, area, or event in time, isolating it from external causality. It's possible to break a time lock, but you need to have a high enough reality quotient. Normal beings and events have a reality quotient of 1. Time Lords and other advanced time-sensitive beings have a higher reality quotient. I think that once you have ki on the level of Goku or Jiren, it effectively increases your reality quotient, if we were to put it in DW terms. But all time locks are not created equal - some require much higher reality quotients to break than others. So yes, if Hit was more powerful or if his techniques were more effective, Jiren wouldn't be able to escape them.
To use another analogy, in Doctor Who there is something called a time lock. It can essentially isolate or freeze a being, area, or event in time, isolating it from external causality. It's possible to break a time lock, but you need to have a high enough reality quotient. Normal beings and events have a reality quotient of 1. Time Lords and other advanced time-sensitive beings have a higher reality quotient. I think that once you have ki on the level of Goku or Jiren, it effectively increases your reality quotient, if we were to put it in DW terms. But all time locks are not created equal - some require much higher reality quotients to break than others. So yes, if Hit was more powerful or if his techniques were more effective, Jiren wouldn't be able to escape them.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147