Yamoshi and the Destruction of Planet Sadala

[Meshack]

I wanted to do this after we received the information about Yamoshi being the legendary Super Saiyan. I probably should have waited until Saikyo Jump was released but I didn’t want to forget but I will update my thoughts if anything is added to this.

By the title, you know I am talking about Yamoshi and how he lead to the destruction of Planet Sadala. First, I wanna say how this stuff pieces together if this is what they were going for. I’m probably not the first who thought of this and I think I saw this on the subreddit before but I think I turned it down because it didn’t click until now. But on topic, we know Planet Sadala was the home planet of the Saiyans. We get this information from Episode 32 of Dragon Ball Super but first in Chapter 8 of the manga. Something we also got was information on what happened to the planet in the Seventh Universe — it was destroyed in a civil war.

How does that connect to Yamoshi? Well, we know now that Yamoshi is the Saiyan of legend. The legend Vegeta jerked off to ever since he was a child (probably). The legend Freeza was so scared of that lead to the destruction of Planet Vegeta. Well, Yamoshi did achieve Super Saiyan but he died. We do know that this happened before Planet Vegeta so it had to have happened on Planet Sadala. What I believed happened is that Yamoshi achieved the Super Saiyan transformation after he and his five comrades of righteousness started a rebellion. That is fact. He did die and most likely his comrades died. The aftermath of this is most likely the destruction of Planet Sadala. What Yamoshi and his comrades did was a civil war and a civil war was the cause of the destruction of Planet Sadala.

Some of you probably got the same idea when this information was revealed but what do you think about this. It was out-right stated that the planet was destroyed because of this so I guess you can call this a theory.

[AvatarReiko]

Who is Yamoshi?

[Meshack]

Who is Yamoshi?

Here you go my friend: https://twitter.com/herms98/status/936097133731627008

[DragonBallFoodie]

Aren't Yamoshi and Planet Sadala from different universes?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Aren't Yamoshi and Planet Sadala from different universes?

There was a planet Sadala in the 7th universe as well.

[Meshack]

Aren't Yamoshi and Planet Sadala from different universes?

Like I said, Vegeta stated that Planet Sadala was destroyed because of a civil war.

[shadowfox87]

One thing I don't like is that people are assuming that Yamoshi is the original Super Saiyan God, but actually the interview does not say that. It says that Yamoshi turned into a SSJ for the first time in history when he was cornered. Then his spirit sought a new warrior - Super Saiyan God. It does not mean that Yamoshi himself reached that. Makes no sense if he turned SSJ and SSG. The flashback of where Shenlong talks about the SSG is not in the manga, but only in the anime. Toriyama said that Yamoshi was the person Freeza feared only because he started the legend of both the SSJ and SSG, but he himself was not a SSG.

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?
In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi4 who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.

Based on the information we have, I think things in the timeline happened like this:

- 238 Before Age (1000 years before Goku turned SSJ)
Yamoshi turns into a Super Saiyan for the first time in history as he is the first saiyan with a gentle heart to develop S-cells. He and his friends lead a rebellion against the saiyans. Yamoshi fought for peace with other races while other saiyans promoted violence and destruction. Yamoshi was outnumbered and defeated, but his spirit was passed onto 6 other saiyans with righteous hearts including Vegeta and Bardock's ancestors. The war continued even after Yamoshi's death. With the damage from the war, Planet Sadal became unstable and was impending destruction. The surviving saiyans took a spaceship to Planet Plant. The legend of the Super Saiyan is passed down in the Saiyan race while the legend of the Super Saiyan God is written in the Namekian Book of Legend via the Namekian elder.

- Age 550
Saiyans land on Planet Plant in a mysterious ship

- Age 720-730
The Saiyan-Tuffle war. Planet Plant renamed Planet Vegeta. Saiyans begin space travel

- Age 731
The Saiyans join up with Frieza. King Vegeta marries his queen.

- Age 732
Prince Vegeta is born.

- Age 735
Frieza hears about the legend of the Super Saiyan from other saiyans.

- Age 737
Goku is born.

- Age 739
Planet Vegeta is destroyed by Freeza. Oracle Fish tells Beerus that he will face the Super Saiyan God 39 years from now, causing Beerus to go to sleep and set an alarm for 39 years later.

- Age 762, December 24
Goku turns into a Super Saiyan during his fight with Freeza, approximately 1000 years (762+238) after Yamoshi died.

- Age 778, August 18
Goku absorbs the energy from 5 righteous hearted sayans - Goten, Trunks, Vegeta, Gohan, and Pan - all descendants of Bardock and Vegeta. Absorbing the energies of 5 righteous heart saiyans with Goku himself carrying a portion of Yamoshi's spirit, transformed his ki into God ki. God ki is more calm and refined.

[Meshack]

One thing I don't like is that people are assuming that Yamoshi is the original Super Saiyan God, but actually the interview does not say that. It says that Yamoshi turned into a SSJ for the first time in history when he was cornered. Then his spirit sought a new warrior - Super Saiyan God. It does not mean that Yamoshi himself reached that. Makes no sense if he turned SSJ and SSG. The flashback of where Shenlong talks about the SSG is not in the manga, but only in the anime. Toriyama said that Yamoshi was the person Freeza feared only because he started the legend of both the SSJ and SSG, but he himself was not a SSG.

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?
In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi4 who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.

Based on the information we have, I think things in the timeline happened like this:

- 238 Before Age (1000 years before Goku turned SSJ)
Yamoshi turns into a Super Saiyan for the first time in history as he is the first saiyan with a gentle heart to develop S-cells. He and his friends lead a rebellion against the saiyans. Yamoshi fought for peace with other races while other saiyans promoted violence and destruction. Yamoshi was outnumbered and defeated, but his spirit was passed onto 6 other saiyans with righteous hearts including Vegeta and Bardock's ancestors. The war continued even after Yamoshi's death. With the damage from the war, Planet Sadal became unstable and was impending destruction. The surviving saiyans took a spaceship to Planet Plant. The legend of the Super Saiyan is passed down in the Saiyan race while the legend of the Super Saiyan God is written in the Namekian Book of Legend via the Namekian elder.

- Age 550
Saiyans land on Planet Plant in a mysterious ship

- Age 720-730
The Saiyan-Tuffle war. Planet Plant renamed Planet Vegeta. Saiyans begin space travel

- Age 731
The Saiyans join up with Frieza. King Vegeta marries his queen.

- Age 732
Prince Vegeta is born.

- Age 735
Frieza hears about the legend of the Super Saiyan from other saiyans.

- Age 737
Goku is born.

- Age 739
Planet Vegeta is destroyed by Freeza. Oracle Fish tells Beerus that he will face the Super Saiyan God 39 years from now, causing Beerus to go to sleep and set an alarm for 39 years later.

- Age 762, December 24
Goku turns into a Super Saiyan during his fight with Freeza, approximately 1000 years (762+238) after Yamoshi died.

- Age 778, August 18
Goku absorbs the energy from 5 righteous hearted sayans - Goten, Trunks, Vegeta, Gohan, and Pan - all descendants of Bardock and Vegeta. Absorbing the energies of 5 righteous heart saiyans with Goku himself carrying a portion of Yamoshi's spirit, transformed his ki into God ki. God ki is more calm and refined.

You have some stuff right and some stuff entirely wrong.

Yamoshi turns into a Super Saiyan for the first time in history as he is the first saiyan with a gentle heart to develop S-cells. He and his friends lead a rebellion against the saiyans. Yamoshi fought for peace with other races while other saiyans promoted violence and destruction. Yamoshi was outnumbered and defeated, but his spirit was passed onto 6 other saiyans with righteous hearts including Vegeta and Bardock's ancestors. The war continued even after Yamoshi's death. With the damage from the war, Planet Sadal became unstable and was impending destruction. The surviving saiyans took a spaceship to Planet Plant. The legend of the Super Saiyan is passed down in the Saiyan race while the legend of the Super Saiyan God is written in the Namekian Book of Legend via the Namekian elder.

Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan but he was probably not the first Saiyan with a righteous soul. Yamoshi was righteous but his five other comrades were too if they wanted to start a rebellion with him. That doesn't even take into account the ages of Yamoshi and his comrades and the why they have righteous hearts. Also, about the S-Cells, Toriyama said every Saiyan has S-Cells so unless Yamoshi was the first Saiyan (obviously not) then he was not the first to develop S-Cells. Per Toriyama, some Saiyans have more S-Cells than others. Since Yamoshi had a righteous/calm soul, he had more than the average Saiyan. But as far as I'm aware, Yamoshi didn't fight for peace with other races. Toriyama didn't say that and the Saiyans didn't start taking over planets until Freeza and Cold came around but that was years in the future. Yamoshi was a Saiyan so he loved to fight like Gokuh does.

Yamoshi's spirit didn't pass on to the descendants of Barduck and Vegeta. After dying, Yamoshi spirit "wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God." Toriyama was asked "Was the 'legendary Super Saiyan' Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?" The Super Saiyan God they're referring to is the God in the flashback told by Shenron in Battle of Gods. Though, for some reason, it was removed from the dialogue of the Dragon Ball Super anime and manga. Shenron specifically stated that on Planet Vegeta that there was a group of six righteous Saiyan starting a revolt on PLANET VEGETA and a Saiyan became Super Saiyan God because of the ritual/ceremony. You were right when you said the Saiyans took over Planet Plant but the Saiyans talked about both legends: the legendary Super Saiyan and legendary Super Saiyan God. That's how Freeza knew about it. It just wasn't talked as much. But, a Nameccian elder did write about it. That's how Shenron knew about the legend, because of Yamoshi's spirit and the Nameccian elder writing it down in the Book of Legends.

[shadowfox87]

Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan but he was probably not the first Saiyan with a righteous soul. Yamoshi was righteous but his five other comrades were too if they wanted to start a rebellion with him. That doesn't even take into account the ages of Yamoshi and his comrades and the why they have righteous hearts. Also, about the S-Cells, Toriyama said every Saiyan has S-Cells so unless Yamoshi was the first Saiyan (obviously not) then he was not the first to develop S-Cells. Per Toriyama, some Saiyans have more S-Cells than others. Since Yamoshi had a righteous/calm soul, he had more than the average Saiyan. But as far as I'm aware, Yamoshi didn't fight for peace with other races. Toriyama didn't say that and the Saiyans didn't start taking over planets until Freeza and Cold came around but that was years in the future. Yamoshi was a Saiyan so he loved to fight like Gokuh does.

Yamoshi's spirit didn't pass on to the descendants of Barduck and Vegeta. After dying, Yamoshi spirit "wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God." Toriyama was asked "Was the 'legendary Super Saiyan' Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?" The Super Saiyan God they're referring to is the God in the flashback told by Shenron in Battle of Gods. Though, for some reason, it was removed from the dialogue of the Dragon Ball Super anime and manga. Shenron specifically stated that on Planet Vegeta that there was a group of six righteous Saiyan starting a revolt on PLANET VEGETA and a Saiyan became Super Saiyan God because of the ritual/ceremony. You were right when you said the Saiyans took over Planet Plant but the Saiyans talked about both legends: the legendary Super Saiyan and legendary Super Saiyan God. That's how Freeza knew about it. It just wasn't talked as much. But, a Nameccian elder did write about it. That's how Shenron knew about the legend, because of Yamoshi's spirit and the Nameccian elder writing it down in the Book of Legends.

I never said that Yamoshi was the first Saiyan in history with a righteous heart, but he was the first one to have all the ingredients needed to become a Super Saiyan - sufficient S-cells, battle power, and a trigger. No, not all saiyans have S-cells, only some. You can increase the amount of S-cells by being kind hearted which is influenced by the environment. These are Akira Toriyama's exact words:

Can anyone become a Super Saiyan if they train?
It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called “S-Cells”.2 Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan. Most Saiyans have some S-Cells, although not a great quantity. The reason why Goku and Vegeta’s children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earth’s environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.

Saiyans in general are violent. The rebellion started with Yamoshi and his 5 friends. A rebellion implies that it is within their own race, not against another race or enemy. The only possible thing is to rebel against is violence. After Yamoshi died, his spirit passed onto six righteous hearted saiyans, so obviously 5 of those would be those 5 friends. The sixth would be wandering in search of the new warrior. I merely theorized that since King Vegeta is the king of the saiyans and because Yamoshi's hair style resembles Vegeta, that he may be a descendant. I am not saying for a fact that Yamoshi's spirit passed onto the descendants of Bardock and Vegeta.

The saiyans didn't talk about both legends, only the regular Super Saiyan. Nowhere in the official manga does it state that. Vegeta had no clue what a Super Saiyan God is and he would have the knowledge of the legends passed down from his own race. The legend of the Super Saiyan God was only written in the Namekian book of legend. Freeza only heard the legend from other Saiyans. If you're counting that Bardock spin-off story where he turned into a Super Saiyan, that does not count. In that, it was Chilled who passed down the legend of Super Saiyan to his family.

The flashback of the original Super Saiyan God happened in the movie, it was never shown in the anime or manga because most likely, it was not Yamoshi. I'd rather take the anime and manga over a movie any day, and manga over anime.

Yamoshi never turned himself into a Super Saiyan God. He turned into a Super Saiyan, was outnumbered, and then died. It makes no sense if he turned into a Super Saiyan AND a Super Saiyan God. Toriyama's exact words were that his spirit wandered in search of a new warrior - Super Saiyan God, implying that Yamoshi was not the Super Saiyan God.

[Meshack]

Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan but he was probably not the first Saiyan with a righteous soul. Yamoshi was righteous but his five other comrades were too if they wanted to start a rebellion with him. That doesn't even take into account the ages of Yamoshi and his comrades and the why they have righteous hearts. Also, about the S-Cells, Toriyama said every Saiyan has S-Cells so unless Yamoshi was the first Saiyan (obviously not) then he was not the first to develop S-Cells. Per Toriyama, some Saiyans have more S-Cells than others. Since Yamoshi had a righteous/calm soul, he had more than the average Saiyan. But as far as I'm aware, Yamoshi didn't fight for peace with other races. Toriyama didn't say that and the Saiyans didn't start taking over planets until Freeza and Cold came around but that was years in the future. Yamoshi was a Saiyan so he loved to fight like Gokuh does.

Yamoshi's spirit didn't pass on to the descendants of Barduck and Vegeta. After dying, Yamoshi spirit "wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God." Toriyama was asked "Was the 'legendary Super Saiyan' Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?" The Super Saiyan God they're referring to is the God in the flashback told by Shenron in Battle of Gods. Though, for some reason, it was removed from the dialogue of the Dragon Ball Super anime and manga. Shenron specifically stated that on Planet Vegeta that there was a group of six righteous Saiyan starting a revolt on PLANET VEGETA and a Saiyan became Super Saiyan God because of the ritual/ceremony. You were right when you said the Saiyans took over Planet Plant but the Saiyans talked about both legends: the legendary Super Saiyan and legendary Super Saiyan God. That's how Freeza knew about it. It just wasn't talked as much. But, a Nameccian elder did write about it. That's how Shenron knew about the legend, because of Yamoshi's spirit and the Nameccian elder writing it down in the Book of Legends.

I never said that Yamoshi was the first Saiyan in history with a righteous heart, but he was the first one to have all the ingredients needed to become a Super Saiyan - sufficient S-cells, battle power, and a trigger. No, not all saiyans have S-cells, only some. You can increase the amount of S-cells by being kind hearted which is influenced by the environment. These are Akira Toriyama's exact words:

Can anyone become a Super Saiyan if they train?
It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called “S-Cells”.2 Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan. Most Saiyans have some S-Cells, although not a great quantity. The reason why Goku and Vegeta’s children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earth’s environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.

Saiyans in general are violent. The rebellion started with Yamoshi and his 5 friends. A rebellion implies that it is within their own race, not against another race or enemy. The only possible thing is to rebel against is violence. After Yamoshi died, his spirit passed onto six righteous hearted saiyans, so obviously 5 of those would be those 5 friends. The sixth would be wandering in search of the new warrior. I merely theorized that since King Vegeta is the king of the saiyans and because Yamoshi's hair style resembles Vegeta, that he may be a descendant. I am not saying for a fact that Yamoshi's spirit passed onto the descendants of Bardock and Vegeta.

The saiyans didn't talk about both legends, only the regular Super Saiyan. Nowhere in the official manga does it state that. Vegeta had no clue what a Super Saiyan God is and he would have the knowledge of the legends passed down from his own race. The legend of the Super Saiyan God was only written in the Namekian book of legend. Freeza only heard the legend from other Saiyans. If you're counting that Bardock spin-off story where he turned into a Super Saiyan, that does not count. In that, it was Chilled who passed down the legend of Super Saiyan to his family.

The flashback of the original Super Saiyan God happened in the movie, it was never shown in the anime or manga because most likely, it was not Yamoshi. I'd rather take the anime and manga over a movie any day, and manga over anime.

Yamoshi never turned himself into a Super Saiyan God. He turned into a Super Saiyan, was outnumbered, and then died. It makes no sense if he turned into a Super Saiyan AND a Super Saiyan God. Toriyama's exact words were that his spirit wandered in search of a new warrior - Super Saiyan God, implying that Yamoshi was not the Super Saiyan God.

I never said Yamoshi was the legendary Super Saiyan God because he wasn’t. You said Yamoshi was the first Saiyn to develop S-Cells but WE DONT KNOW THAT. You say it as of it’s fact but it isn’t. You specifically say that Yamoshi fights for peace but again, that was never said. YOU suggested that. Not me. We never saw the spirit of Yamoshi so you can’t say it resembled Vegeta’s. I don’t know where you’re getting some of this stuff from. Spirits, at least in Dragon Ball, don’t have physical appearance. The spirits of Dragon Ball are shown in the Saiyans Arc and Revival Fusion.

Why’re mentioning the original manga? Super Saiyan God wasn’t around in the 90s. Toriyama recently said Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in search of the Super Saiyan God. Gokuh was not the first Super Saiyan God. Toriyama wrote the script for Battle of Gods so he still has that in his mind when writing stuff. Just because it wasn’t said in Super doesn’t take away what happened in Battle of Gods and the legend. Also, why are you mentioning Episode of Barduck at all? That story is a what-of story and doesn’t take a part in this conversation. If Freeza (DB-) knew about the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God legends then the Saiyans have been talking about it. That’s what his advisor told him.

[shadowfox87]

I never said Yamoshi was the legendary Super Saiyan God because he wasn’t. You said Yamoshi was the first Saiyn to develop S-Cells but WE DONT KNOW THAT. You say it as of it’s fact but it isn’t. You specifically say that Yamoshi fights for peace but again, that was never said. YOU suggested that. Not me. We never saw the spirit of Yamoshi so you can’t say it resembled Vegeta’s. I don’t know where you’re getting some of this stuff from. Spirits, at least in Dragon Ball, don’t have physical appearance. The spirits of Dragon Ball are shown in the Saiyans Arc and Revival Fusion.

Why’re mentioning the original manga? Super Saiyan God wasn’t around in the 90s. Toriyama recently said Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in search of the Super Saiyan God. Gokuh was not the first Super Saiyan God. Toriyama wrote the script for Battle of Gods so he still has that in his mind when writing stuff. Just because it wasn’t said in Super doesn’t take away what happened in Battle of Gods and the legend. Also, why are you mentioning Episode of Barduck at all? That story is a what-of story and doesn’t take a part in this conversation. If Freeza (DB-) knew about the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God legends then the Saiyans have been talking about it. That’s what his advisor told him.

Yes, I suggested that Yamoshi fights for peace because a rebellion implies that he is rebelling against something within his own race. What else would he be fighting for? What is your theory on the subject? There has to be a reason why Yamoshi became the first Super Saiyan and that's based on S-cells, which is why I said that. It's not to imply that there aren't other Saiyans with S-cells, but like I said not all Saiyans have S-cells.

Please tell me you read the Dragon Ball Super manga. This is what I'm referring to when I say manga, not the 90s version of the manga. Super Saiyan God does exist in the manga. I don't count the anime or the movie. If you want to know what is actually happening accurately, you need to read the manga. Again, you aren't understanding. Freeza had no idea what a Super Saiyan God is, he only heard the legend of the Super Saiyan from other saiyans. The reason I even mentioned the Episode of Bardock was to tell you to NOT count it because that is the only time where Freeza even mentioned Super Saiyan God. In the manga, when Goku turns Super Saiyan Blue for the first time, he explains to Freeza that it is a Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God.

We have seen a glimpse of Yamoshi in Beerus's prophetic dream. We know what his hairstyle looks like.