In defense of Super's stamina problems

[nato25]

IE with Goku in the TOP. While I still am not a fan of how all that was handled, after a desire to hear Nozawa's "FUUUUURRRRREEEEZZAAA" yell and not knowing what episode exactly to go to I just noticed that in one of Z's biggest moments in the entire franchise history, when Goku transforms into SSJ, he gets a complete stamina regen, from completely exhausted, barely being able to stand to full power.

This obviously contradicts later moments in the show where characters frequently un-transform due to low stamina or can't transform at all. I guess here it gets a pass as being the first time this transformation takes place and no one knowing how it works, I just couldn't believe I never noticed this in my 20+ years of fandom.

[Ssjcell]

I think it was because of the rage boost that caused his stamina to reboot

[Lord Beerus]

The only occasion I would really raise a red flag about the usage of stamina in Dragon Ball Super was concerning Episode 127 when Vegeta power up into SSJB Evolution/Strengthened despite the previous episode having stated he's out of energy... and that all happened in the span of less than 30 seconds in-universe. Beyond that, the anime makes it's pretty vague after Episode 110. It's not a case of Goku being always low on energy or fighting at 100%, but having enough in the tank to keep fighting. And the show does go out it way to state that Goku just recovers his strength his strength quicker than you would expect.

I made a few notes about this in the Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread:

Beerus states in Episode 115, when Goku is stacking Kaioken on top of SSJB to counter SSJ Kefla's strength, that Goku was using the Kaioken despite not having full stamina. So he had certainly recovered some strength while fighting Kale and Caulifla, but he still wasn't fighting at 100%.

Goku does state in Episode 120 that he recovered a bit stamina due to Gohan fighting the Universe 3 on his own instead of him and Vegeta taking them on as they originally were, and right after that he goes SSJB. Goku uses that form for the rest of the Tournament Of Power until he gases out again and Ultra Instinct kicks for a third time in Episode 128.

So it's safe to say it take a few minutes for Goku to recover enough strength to go SSJB again, and few more minutes on top of that to maintain the for longer periods and stack Kaioken on top of it with burning out so quickly. That's also most likely why he transformed into SSJG in Episode 121. As that form uses far less stamina than SSJB, and by that process, Goku was able to preserve his energy enough that he could use SSJB again for any extended battles.

Keep in mind, in Episode 119, Goku didn't use SSJB at all. So it can be assumed he gassed out after using SSJB (with a splash of Kaioken stacked on top) to eliminate the remaining Universe 2 fighters in Episode 118. And in Episode 118 itself, he only used SSJB prior to that moment in short bursts, so it can inferred Goku was running on fumes at that point and/or pure adrenaline.

The anime is very vague about stating how much stamina Goku has after Episode 110. Leading to a lot of people to question the ambiguity of how much power Goku is using in any given fight after his initial skirmish with Jiren.

[ekrolo2]

I think the stamina problems are made much worse by the fact we see characters constantly go for bombast type attacks that are seemingly burning through lots of ki until they're not. Goku can apparently get into a big beam clash with Analiza and it does nothing to his depleted stamina, nor does him using a KK Blue Kamehameha to finish off the last Universe 2 fighters. Vegeta fires off the mother of all Final Flashes at Jiren and it apparently lets him not only keep on fighting but attain a new form and fire off several more highly powerful moves without any stamina lose.

Remember when Goku firing off a single, serious Kamehameha at Perfect Cell left him out of breath? Why is that not happening anywhere here until the plot conveniently makes it so? It's particularly annoying since the anime makes almost every single instance here presented as the biggest deal ever, all out nothing held back type stuff and it just doesn't work.

[Koitsukai]

I don't find the stamina issue that serious. Yes, Vegeta fighting for 2 episodes against Jiren after defeating Toppo is something I can't really justify, and I don't even take too serious what Beerus said about him being depleted, but he really kept going like it was no thang, actually he spearheads the attack on Jiren in the following episode. But to be fair, he did save his best for the final episodes, wasted no energy unlike Goku.

Goku's stamina to me is a different thing. He rests for a few minutes between fights, Freeza lends him some ki, and gets help almost in every fight. I don't think going blue to escape that black hole was a good idea, maybe ss or ssgod would've been more appropiate, he shouldn't have been able to do that, it was right after fighting Jiren AND Kefla. The fight against Kefla went as one would imagine, one or two hits and he is out or needs to power up some more. He goes blue against Anilaza which seems unnecessary taking into account everyone was there to help but probably wasn't going full power because well everyone was there to help, and against Jiren he shouldn't have too much left but he does perform how you would expect, 3 against 1 and he gets easily knocked the blue out of him and it takes him quite a while to get up again, 17 saved their asses.
Episode 131 might be unexplainable, he was out for like 20 seconds in-universe and then up again, but that showdown was so good I don't even care. After his elimination, his body should've ended up worst than after kaioken against Hit. Perhaps if they showed him like that, like hey Gokou, here is the check, you ended up like Stephen Hawking, people wouldn't be so mad.
There is no doubt they overused Gokou, he could've skipped one or two battles and someone else get the spotlight... it was like playing Messi in every single game just because everyone wants to see him.

All in all, I feel that if we got to see blood and real damage, we would be discussing how they didn't die rather than their stamina

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

Spoiler:

I don't find the stamina issue that serious. Yes, Vegeta fighting for 2 episodes against Jiren after defeating Toppo is something I can't really justify, and I don't even take too serious what Beerus said about him being depleted, but he really kept going like it was no thang, actually he spearheads the attack on Jiren in the following episode. But to be fair, he did save his best for the final episodes, wasted no energy unlike Goku.

Goku's stamina to me is a different thing. He rests for a few minutes between fights, Freeza lends him some ki, and gets help almost in every fight. I don't think going blue to escape that black hole was a good idea, maybe ss or ssgod would've been more appropiate, he shouldn't have been able to do that, it was right after fighting Jiren AND Kefla. The fight against Kefla went as one would imagine, one or two hits and he is out or needs to power up some more. He goes blue against Anilaza which seems unnecessary taking into account everyone was there to help but probably wasn't going full power because well everyone was there to help, and against Jiren he shouldn't have too much left but he does perform how you would expect, 3 against 1 and he gets easily knocked the blue out of him and it takes him quite a while to get up again, 17 saved their asses.
Episode 131 might be unexplainable, he was out for like 20 seconds in-universe and then up again, but that showdown was so good I don't even care. After his elimination, his body should've ended up worst than after kaioken against Hit. Perhaps if they showed him like that, like hey Gokou, here is the check, you ended up like Stephen Hawking, people wouldn't be so mad.
There is no doubt they overused Gokou, he could've skipped one or two battles and someone else get the spotlight... it was like playing Messi in every single game just because everyone wants to see him.

All in all, I feel that if we got to see blood and real damage, we would be discussing how they didn't die rather than their stamina

The part at the end about blood is probably never happening again. Super is too kid friendly and its not gonna show real blood like dragon ball and Z did. Although it was a different era.

[PFM18]

The only occasion I would really raise a red flag about the usage of stamina in Dragon Ball Super was concerning Episode 127 when Vegeta power up into SSJB Evolution/Strengthened despite the previous episode having stated he's out of energy... and that all happened in the span of less than 30 seconds in-universe. Beyond that, the anime makes it's pretty vague after Episode 110. It's not a case of Goku being always low on energy or fighting at 100%, but having enough in the tank to keep fighting. And the show does go out it way to state that Goku just recovers his strength his strength quicker than you would expect.

I made a few notes about this in the Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread:

Beerus states in Episode 115, when Goku is stacking Kaioken on top of SSJB to counter SSJ Kefla's strength, that Goku was using the Kaioken despite not having full stamina. So he had certainly recovered some strength while fighting Kale and Caulifla, but he still wasn't fighting at 100%.

Goku does state in Episode 120 that he recovered a bit stamina due to Gohan fighting the Universe 3 on his own instead of him and Vegeta taking them on as they originally were, and right after that he goes SSJB. Goku uses that form for the rest of the Tournament Of Power until he gases out again and Ultra Instinct kicks for a third time in Episode 128.

So it's safe to say it take a few minutes for Goku to recover enough strength to go SSJB again, and few more minutes on top of that to maintain the for longer periods and stack Kaioken on top of it with burning out so quickly. That's also most likely why he transformed into SSJG in Episode 121. As that form uses far less stamina than SSJB, and by that process, Goku was able to preserve his energy enough that he could use SSJB again for any extended battles.

Keep in mind, in Episode 119, Goku didn't use SSJB at all. So it can be assumed he gassed out after using SSJB (with a splash of Kaioken stacked on top) to eliminate the remaining Universe 2 fighters in Episode 118. And in Episode 118 itself, he only used SSJB prior to that moment in short bursts, so it can inferred Goku was running on fumes at that point and/or pure adrenaline.

The anime is very vague about stating how much stamina Goku has after Episode 110. Leading to a lot of people to question the ambiguity of how much power Goku is using in any given fight after his initial skirmish with Jiren.

I agree 100% wih everything you said. In 127 when Vegeta goes into SSBE after it literally just being stated that he was out of energy was bad. Then the following episode after fighting for another 30 seconds now he's actually out of energy and unable to go even normal SSJ.