Will Goku & Vegeta Ever Surpass Whis?

[theherodjl]

Is it even possible? Whis is absurdly strong on top of having Ultra Instinct & reality-altering abilities. I think with that combination, Whis simply cannot be overtaken unless Goku finds an Infinity Gauntlet lying around somewhere.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Is it even possible? Whis is absurdly strong on top of having Ultra Instinct & reality-altering abilities. I think with that combination, Whis simply cannot be overtaken unless Goku finds an Infinity Gauntlet lying around somewhere.

Yes, everyone ahead of them eventually gets surpassed including deities. I can't image the power jump from Beerus to Whis is any more insurmountable than the gap from Buu to Beerus which Goku atleast temporarily closed completely

[RandomGuy96]

The Infinity Gauntlet is explicitly powerless outside of the MU.

[theherodjl]

Yes, everyone ahead of them eventually gets surpassed including deities. I can't image the power jump from Beerus to Whis is any more insurmountable than the gap from Buu to Beerus which Goku atleast temporarily closed completely

Well...how's he going to do it? Even mastering Ultra Instinct & marginally increasing his strength from there isn't going to let Goku beat Whis. The Angel tier is easily at minimum, a few fold the strength of the Hakaishin, and we don't even know if the Angels are really showing all that they're capable of. Its a little soon to say for sure, but I don't think Goku can surpass Whis as a mere mortal.

[theherodjl]

The Infinity Gauntlet is explicitly powerless outside of the MU.

Well, of course, but I'm thinking more along the lines of just any old artifact/power-up that would allow Goku to overwhelm or negate the abilities of the Angels. I imagine that Goku would need something comparable to an individual universe's IG to trash Whis.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Yes, everyone ahead of them eventually gets surpassed including deities. I can't image the power jump from Beerus to Whis is any more insurmountable than the gap from Buu to Beerus which Goku atleast temporarily closed completely

Well...how's he going to do it? Even mastering Ultra Instinct & marginally increasing his strength from there isn't going to let Goku beat Whis. The Angel tier is easily at minimum, a few fold the strength of the Hakaishin, and we don't even know if the Angels are really showing all that they're capable of. Its a little soon to say for sure, but I don't think Goku can surpass Whis as a mere mortal.

New forms

I'm sure eventually we will get transformations that grant goku and vegeta reality warping/cancelling abilities

[theherodjl]

New forms

I'm sure eventually we will get transformations that grant goku and vegeta reality warping/cancelling abilities

What forms???
Vegeta has taken SSJ to a level far beyond the Godly SSJ form, and Goku has mastered a state that is the pinnacle of the body's ability to move. What new forms are they going to pull out of their tailless butts? SSJBEMUI? SSJ Infinity? Super-Duper Ultra Instinct?

[RandomGuy96]

The Infinity Gauntlet is explicitly powerless outside of the MU.

Well, of course, but I'm thinking more along the lines of just any old artifact/power-up that would allow Goku to overwhelm or negate the abilities of the Angels. I imagine that Goku would need something comparable to an individual universe's IG to trash Whis.

Nah, he just needs his Goku Blanco form.

[ekrolo2]

The Infinity Gauntlet is explicitly powerless outside of the MU.

Well, of course, but I'm thinking more along the lines of just any old artifact/power-up that would allow Goku to overwhelm or negate the abilities of the Angels. I imagine that Goku would need something comparable to an individual universe's IG to trash Whis.

Nah, he just needs his Goku Blanco form.

He needs to let Baby possess him?

[Ssjcell]

Maybe in the next 30 years he could if he can execute ultra instinct at well and multiply his strength...

[DragonBallFoodie]

Yes, they will. Eventually.

[Bullza]

Depending how long the series goes on for, someone like Whis could become fodder eventually.

[PFM18]

Depending how long the series goes on for, someone like Whis could become fodder eventually.

Yeah pretty much

[Lord Beerus]

I don't want them to, but if it's what Toriyama wants, it'll happen.

[SupremeKai25]

Hopefully not. There are some individuals, such as Infinite Zamasu and Whis, that they should never be able to surpass. They are mortals, after all. Strong, ambitious, but ultimately, mortal. They have limits. They should not breach that treshold, It's bad for the narrative.

[Lionel]

If you ask me, transformations have been losing their lustre since the Cell arc. However they manage to surpass Whis I hope it doesn't have to do with yet another conceived transformation. Knowing how Dragon Ball operates, it'll probably happen anyway. Whis seems to be on another order of being not only in terms of power but also technical skill. I would be interested to see how they go about matching and surmounting Whis' dexterity and unique abilities moreso than his power level.

[Waluigiman]

If they are never going to fight the Grand Priest or anyone near that level, I am fine with them being weaker than Whis. They are aleready too strong.

[ricky84]

Hopefully not. There are some individuals, such as Infinite Zamasu and Whis, that they should never be able to surpass. They are mortals, after all. Strong, ambitious, but ultimately, mortal. They have limits. They should not breach that treshold, It's bad for the narrative.

Infinite Zamasu has already been surpassed by several people (1st UI Omen Goku and above, late ToP KKx20 Goku, SSBE Vegeta, GoD Toppo, SSJ2 Kefla, any Hakaishin, any Angel, any version of Jiren, any SSG or above Goku/Vegeta fusion since the ToP, DBS Broly and of course Zeno).

And you forgot that Saiyans have no limits

[RandomGuy96]

Honestly, even making Beerus a benchmark was a mistake. The original series rubbed in that the gods had been surpassed a long time ago. Zamasu's arc is actually consistent with this theme: a powerful god is motivated by paranoia of mortals becoming stronger than the gods, but in the greatest irony, needs to harness the power of a mortal to actually accomplish his goal (without his body stealing trick, his arc would have ended with him getting beaten up by SS1 Goku). Ditto the Buu arc: Kaioshin is explicitly described as the highest god in the universe yet is gobsmacked by the power of the mortals. Vegeta himself spells it out when he says they've become far too strong to the point that Kaioshin, who should be amazing them, is the one in awe. They're not even the only ones to do this; Dabra is never described as a god, and Toriyama's recent comments all but confirms that he's not, yet he's explicitly the strongest in the Demon Realm and also stronger than Kaioshin. Then Buu, an ancient djinn who defeated all the top gods on his own (absorbing the two strongest to boost his own power and intelligence), comes out and knocks them all off their thrones.

Then suddenly, no, there's an even god-ier god who's stronger than what we already described as the absolute top god. It's lame and defies the previous escalation.

[majinwarman]

If the story calls for it then it happen. If not, then I don't see it happening at all.