zarmack wrote:Saturnine wrote:PFM18 wrote:
Yeah we are. Goku does several things throughout Super that would very clearly be impossible if that power increase from BoG was not left intact.
That may be the case, but at the same time there are some contradictions too, like certain characters needing to be way stronger than their portrayal suggests. Future Trunks and all the U6 fighters would need to be at low God tier - Frost would need to be significantly stronger than RoF Freeza and most glaringly Cabba - who never received a power boost from dropping out of SSj God, and had never even heard of regular Super Saiyans before, would need to be that strong too. Sure you can say this not sitting well with people is "headcanon", but you can't dismiss these concerns entirely, just like that.
Oh, and not that this is anyone's problem really, but good luck convincing GT fanboys that base Super Goku is stronger than GT's. They thrive on GT Goku's supposedly amazing base power you know
No way in hell is GT Goku's base stronger than Super Goku's. Base GT Goku is either equal to SSJ3 Buu arc Goku (low-ball) or 50x stronger than Buu arc Ultimate Gohan (high-ball). Both of which are way lower than what Post-BoG base Goku and base Vegeta have shown in Super.
You aren't wrong saying "dbs goku> gt goku", but you have horribly failed in valutating gt goku's strength.
By m2 arc, goku was already much stronger than rildo, who was stronger than rage buuhan, making base goku >>SS vegetto from z.
From baby saga on, literally anyone in gt is >> ss vegetto from z via scaling, even pan.
In baby saga , we have
Base goku>>base Vegeta>baby Gohan>base gohan>ssj baby goten >>base goten >kid baby >>pan>>baby toddler >rildo
In s17 arc, via scaling goku is already stronger than his former ssj4 state in his base , and the other saiyan aren't weaker than majuub :
Ssj goku >s17(attacks absorbed)>>base goku >s17(initial)≥oozaru baby>>ssj2 vegeta>>base Vegeta= super baby 2 = hell fighter 17 ≥ssj2 Gohan >>majuub >ssj trunks/goten>rildo(powerd in hell)>base Gohan >base trunks/goten>pan
In shadow dragons saga, following the logic of zenkais, base goku would be at least x20 stronger than his s17 arc self. then after the fight with naturon shenron, base goku and base nova are in the same tier with the x10 kamehameha that killed naturon.
After that, by healing, facing syn/omega shenron goku takes another x5 Rapid scale :
Ssj4 goku (vs nova)= 1 , blind = 0,5
Ussj4 goku, blind (vs syn) = 5
syn shenron = 4 , omega = 40 , omega FP = 56
Ssj4 goku, healed = 4 , ufpssj4 goku = 60
Ussj4 goku = 40
Omega shenron, tired = 36
Syn, tired + 6 balls = 32,2
Ssj4 gogeta = 689 (even though this is an uncomfortable number to work with, I like to use it as a reference to a power level list that was the main source fore neatly everyone in Italy 10 years ago or so, that gave ssj4 gogeta a pl of 689'000'000 KEK)
The situation in gt scaling wise Is that, saying goku = ssj3 z goku is wrong bs