Replacing 20X Kaioken With False Super Saiyan...

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Steven Bloodriver
I Live Here
Posts: 3477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Replacing 20X Kaioken With False Super Saiyan...

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:58 pm

Like as the title above suggests, instead of the 20X Kaioken being shown by Son Goku against Fourth Form Frieza (50% Maximum), the nightmarish vision Son Goku had while being forced into unconsciousness by Fourth Form Frieza (Fifty Percent Maximum) had caused Goku to go False Super Saiyan?

User avatar
Yuli Ban
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:07 am
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Replacing 20X Kaioken With False Super Saiyan...

Post by Yuli Ban » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:57 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:Like as the title above suggests, instead of the 20X Kaioken being shown by Son Goku against Fourth Form Frieza (50% Maximum), the nightmarish vision Son Goku had while being forced into unconsciousness by Fourth Form Frieza (Fifty Percent Maximum) had caused Goku to go False Super Saiyan?
Depends on IRL contexts.
If it's 1991, then to be entirely honest, Son Goku doesn't go "False Super Saiyan". He just goes Super Saiyan. Only in retrospect did it become "false" Super Saiyan since, at the time, that was the real deal. At the time, there was no plan to give Super Saiyan golden hair, so having the 20x Kaioken become the moment we see Super Saiyan would have been a neat change. Super Saiyan Goku trounces Freeza, but because Krillin has not died and there's no immediate need to use the Dragon Balls, Goku would likely not stall for time and finish Freeza off quickly. The world just has to deal with a dark-haired Super Saiyan and Dragon Ball goes off on a different course— perhaps Goku and friends accidentally arrive on Yardrat, perhaps they go straight back to Earth, but the immediate story changes drastically.


If it's 2018/2019 and we're doing what-ifs, then the question becomes "how strong is False Super Saiyan to begin with?" I've always assumed it's 50x base but with an inability to proper control the form— under the assumption it's its own form, of course. In which case, it needs a proper name. False Super Saiyan/Pseudo Super Saiyan just won't do. Instead, let's call it something more fitting— Super Saiyan Omen. In which case, I feel it would cause Freeza to tremble and be bemused but not quite inspire pure terror. It simply signals that Goku is ready but still lacks the proper trigger, and Freeza realizes that he has to end the battle immediately before that trigger is pulled— so maybe he death beams Goku first (or at least tries to).
But not before a glorious beatdown.

Image
Personally, I feel it would be an even better choice to give Super Saiyan Omen to Vegeta just to show what an imperfect Super Saiyan transformation is like before we see the real deal.
The Yabanverse
My own take on Saiyajins in a fanverse.

User avatar
Saturnine
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 am

Re: Replacing 20X Kaioken With False Super Saiyan...

Post by Saturnine » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:24 am

Yuli Ban wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote:Like as the title above suggests, instead of the 20X Kaioken being shown by Son Goku against Fourth Form Frieza (50% Maximum), the nightmarish vision Son Goku had while being forced into unconsciousness by Fourth Form Frieza (Fifty Percent Maximum) had caused Goku to go False Super Saiyan?
Depends on IRL contexts.
If it's 1991, then to be entirely honest, Son Goku doesn't go "False Super Saiyan". He just goes Super Saiyan. Only in retrospect did it become "false" Super Saiyan since, at the time, that was the real deal. At the time, there was no plan to give Super Saiyan golden hair, so having the 20x Kaioken become the moment we see Super Saiyan would have been a neat change. Super Saiyan Goku trounces Freeza, but because Krillin has not died and there's no immediate need to use the Dragon Balls, Goku would likely not stall for time and finish Freeza off quickly. The world just has to deal with a dark-haired Super Saiyan and Dragon Ball goes off on a different course— perhaps Goku and friends accidentally arrive on Yardrat, perhaps they go straight back to Earth, but the immediate story changes drastically.


If it's 2018/2019 and we're doing what-ifs, then the question becomes "how strong is False Super Saiyan to begin with?" I've always assumed it's 50x base but with an inability to proper control the form— under the assumption it's its own form, of course. In which case, it needs a proper name. False Super Saiyan/Pseudo Super Saiyan just won't do. Instead, let's call it something more fitting— Super Saiyan Omen. In which case, I feel it would cause Freeza to tremble and be bemused but not quite inspire pure terror. It simply signals that Goku is ready but still lacks the proper trigger, and Freeza realizes that he has to end the battle immediately before that trigger is pulled— so maybe he death beams Goku first (or at least tries to).
But not before a glorious beatdown.

Image
Personally, I feel it would be an even better choice to give Super Saiyan Omen to Vegeta just to show what an imperfect Super Saiyan transformation is like before we see the real deal.
Way to glorify an underfleshed movie transformation like this.

That said, most fans assume it's 25x, but looking at it as an "omen" of SSj, I could imagine it being more, like up to 40x or something. Frankly though, this transformation looks ugly IMO, not a big fan of either it or incorporating it into the continuity in its present form.

User avatar
Yuli Ban
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:07 am
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Replacing 20X Kaioken With False Super Saiyan...

Post by Yuli Ban » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:01 pm

I've never heard anyone claim it's a 25x boost. Most fans I've seen claimed it was anywhere between a 40x to even 100x power boost. One reason being that Goku uses Kaioken x100 near the end of the movie, and since he seems to do more damage to Super Slug, the pseudo Super Saiyan form must not be quite at that level.

But to be perfectly honest, false Super Saiyan might as well be considered a 10x power boost. Yes, that low because Toriyama initially thought of Super Saiyan being about 10x stronger. I don't think he himself ever explicitly stated it's a 50x power boost either.
It's not an underutilized transformation; it's entirely obsolete. False Super Saiyan in universe, proto-Super Saiyan IRL. Since Super Saiyan exists, there's been no need to flesh it out. And since Super Saiyan Power exists (aka having a Super Saiyan aura and spiked hair without going gold), it's redundant.

I personally do like that it seems to be a feral form where a Saiyan's battle instincts are overriding their consciousness and they become animalistic, but even that has been done in the form of Legendary Super Saiyan.
The Yabanverse
My own take on Saiyajins in a fanverse.

Post Reply