Why Is Anime Beerus So Much Stronger Than BOG/ROF Movie Beerus?

[theherodjl]

Is it a case of an alternate timeline like how the Androids in Trunks' Future were stated to not be as powerful as the Androids in the main timeline? Or are SSJG & SSJB actually a lot more powerful in the BOG/ROF films than in DBS thus it only seems like Movie Beerus is weaker?

[AnimeNation101]

Is it a case of an alternate timeline like how the Androids in Trunks' Future were stated to not be as powerful as the Androids in the main timeline? Or are SSJG & SSJB actually a lot more powerful in the BOG/ROF films than in DBS thus it only seems like Movie Beerus is weaker?

The movie events of BoG and RoF have been retconned out of existence and the DBS versions take there places. They dont matter anymore. They aren’t alternate timelines or anything.

[theherodjl]

The movie events of BoG and RoF have been retconned out of existence and the DBS versions take there places. They dont matter anymore. They aren’t alternate timelines or anything.

That's not completely true, the movies have been stated to take place in a sort of alternate dimension so they obviously do exist still. GT's events cannot possibly occur after DBS with the changes that the series has made but GT still does exist as an official continuation to DBZ so its not like inconsistencies between different media prevents them from being applicable in comparing with one another.

[RecolorSaiyan]

To Answer your question, DBS version of those arcs have replaced the movie versions in the main continuity and SSG/SSB are nothing compared to beerus. Now whether that means they were nerfed or Beerus buffed is up to you.


Interesting thing is that there was no consistency in Beerus power in the 2 movies.
If SSG Goku was 60% of his power and pushed Beerus to use nearly 70% then Goku/Vegeta post Whis training + achieving SSB should logically have been way ahead of Beerus in F and we were shown that Beerus went to sleep after his fight with Goku and woke up right around the time Freeza showed up to earth so its not like he trained

[AnimeNation101]

The movie events of BoG and RoF have been retconned out of existence and the DBS versions take there places. They dont matter anymore. They aren’t alternate timelines or anything.

That's not completely true, the movies have been stated to take place in a sort of alternate dimension so they obviously do exist still. GT's events cannot possibly occur after DBS with the changes that the series has made but GT still does exist as an official continuation to DBZ so its not like inconsistencies between different media prevents them from being applicable in comparing with one another.

First off, you’re flip flopping. You said “alternate timeline” in your original post. Second off, you’ve been misinformed. Its been stated by Toriyama that he SEES the dbz movies as stories from alternate dimensions. He didn’t say they ARE in other dimensions. Prob because they aren’t his stories and so he can’t really say where they belong. So no. No where is it OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED that the dbz movies take place in alternate dimensions.

Third off, Toriyama said that in reference to the dbz movies BEFORE BoG and RoF. Unlike the other dbz movies, BoG and RoF acatually DID happen in the main continuity so they weren’t the same case as the other dbz movies. And as i said before, they got RETCONNED by the DBS retellings of those stories. BOG and ROF have been overwritten. They aint in any other timeline or dimension. Like every other thing thats been retconned in DB, its just gone. Replaced.

[DHM211]

While Battle of Gods feels more like a pre Super-era one shot in terms of Beerus' power, Resurrection 'F' makes no mention of it and can actually fit into Supers timeline in lieu of the Resurrection 'F' arc, or it could just fit right into the manga.

In regards to the question, Battle of Gods Beerus was written to be much weaker than Dragon Ball Super Beerus as Toei/Toriyama had no intention of making him a reoccurring character in a 100+ episode series, and as such, didn't need his power to outclass Goku by such a large extent for a one-off movie.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Because they wanted to keep him ahead of Goku.

[Lord Beerus]

Because they wanted to keep him ahead of Goku.

Yep. That's the answer right there. Toriyama wants to keep Beerus ahead of Goku for the time being.

[Grimlock]

Second off, you’ve been misinformed. Its been stated by Toriyama that he SEES the dbz movies as stories from alternate dimensions. He didn’t say they ARE in other dimensions. Prob because they aren’t his stories and so he can’t really say where they belong.

No, you are the one misinformed. The following line: “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic” clearly establishes alternate dimensions in this franchise. Yes, the "I take the movies" suggests an opinion of the author, but that does not mean viewers can't have the same stance as him. It is a fact that there are alternate dimension where the movies do happen.

He talks about "alternate dimension" comparing to the manga "main story", so clearly his claim is meant to be in-universe speaking.

No where is it OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED that the dbz movies take place in alternate dimensions.

Akira Toriyama and Dragon Ball Xenoverse would like to have a word with you.

And as i said before, they got RETCONNED by the DBS retellings of those stories. BOG and ROF have been overwritten. Like every other thing thats been retconned in DB, its just gone. Replaced.

Mind to provide a source?

[AnimeNation101]

Second off, you’ve been misinformed. Its been stated by Toriyama that he SEES the dbz movies as stories from alternate dimensions. He didn’t say they ARE in other dimensions. Prob because they aren’t his stories and so he can’t really say where they belong.

No, you are the one misinformed. The following line: “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic” clearly establishes alternate dimensions in this franchise. Yes, the "I take the movies" suggests an opinion of the author, but that does not mean viewers can't have the same stance as him. It is a fact that there are alternate dimension where the movies do happen.

He talks about "alternate dimension" comparing to the manga "main story", so clearly his claim is meant to be in-universe speaking.

No where is it OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED that the dbz movies take place in alternate dimensions.

Akira Toriyama and Dragon Ball Xenoverse would like to have a word with you.

And as i said before, they got RETCONNED by the DBS retellings of those stories. BOG and ROF have been overwritten. Like every other thing thats been retconned in DB, its just gone. Replaced.

Mind to provide a source?

This might be new to you but ever heard of a little thing called headcanon?

You already proved my point. Toriyama was expressing an opinion. Not a statement canon to the series. Thats that.

And fans just beliving the dbz movies are alternate dimensions are using something known as a “headcanon.” Headcanon: Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Lol, for using XV has evidence. Video games have never been an source of official info pertaining to the main continuity.

Retcon: (in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events

Just the sheer existence of the BoG and RoF arcs is enough to completely retcon the original stories of BoG and RoF (the movies) to the point where they dont exist anymore like with any other event or info that has been retconned.

So the slightly different events of BoG and RoF in the anime overwrite the events from the movie therefore making it obsolete and non-existent in the main continuity of Dragon Ball.

[Grimlock]

This might be new to you but ever heard of a little thing called headcanon?

You already proved my point. Toriyama was expressing an opinion. Not a statement canon to the series. Thats that.

And fans just beliving the dbz movies are alternate dimensions are using something known as a “headcanon.” Headcanon: Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Seems like you are the one using "headcanon" to say that there is no "alternate dimension". Authors stating their own stance related to a certain piece of work is surely something the "fandom" can (and should) follow. After all, you can't say that the movies don't take place in another dimension when the author himself says so. You can't say that Dragon Ball GT is not a side-story when author himself stated what his stance on the matter is.

Lol, for using XV has evidence. Video games have never been an source of official info pertaining to the main continuity.

You asked for something official, games are official materials no matter how much people want to disregard them. And in reality, video-games are more valid than fandom's opinions (unless, of course, a game comes up with something contradictory, then we stick to what is a fact in the "main continuity"). If XV2 corroborates with the fact that the movies do take place in another dimension (and surely the game does, because it is mentioned throughout of it), then that's the real thing until another official work or the author comes up with something different. After all, "alternate dimension" concept does not contradict anything. On the contrary, not only the concept explains the movies in-universe, it expands the lore of Dragon Ball in a great way.

Just the sheer existence of the BoG and RoF arcs is enough to completely retcon the original stories of BoG and RoF (the movies) to the point where they dont exist anymore like with any other event or info that has been retconned.

So the slightly different events of BoG and RoF in the anime overwrite the events from the movie therefore making it obsolete and non-existent in the main continuity of Dragon Ball.

Still no evidence claiming that we must consider the retellings and completely forget about the movies. May I ask you again to provide it?

[Miracles]

Who stated Anime Beerus is stronger than BOG Beerus? Neither of them say Beerus used full power. Beerus was stated in the movie to use 70% and the anime stated Beerus lied about using 100% just to push Goku. Those lines do not contradict each story. The anime is not contrary to movie Beerus using 70% of his power cause the anime never defined the amount Beerus used. It only stated that he lied to Goku about using full power. The 70% from the movie easily stands since both confirm Beerus was not using full power in either setting.

Therefore the movies, written by Toriyama himself have not been retconned by Super as many like to claim. If that were the case, why did Toriyama continue those former movies theme about Goku and Vegeta using just red and blue in the DBS Broly movie and not the original anime forms like Blue Kaioken and SSBE Vegeta? The TV series didn't replace stories soley written by the creator himself. lol...

[Grimlock]

Therefore the movies, written by Toriyama himself have not been retconned by Super as many like to claim. If that were the case, why did Toriyama continue those former movies theme about Goku and Vegeta using just red and blue in the DBS Broly movie and not the original anime forms like Blue Kaioken and SSBE Vegeta? The TV series didn't replace stories soley written by the creator himself. lol...

What you said is just one of many things that point to the fact that movies are still valid and that Toriyama's continuity is a valid one to consider (after all, he's the author right?). Clearly there is no "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-Ken" and "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution" (and "Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" for that matter) in Toriyama's eyes/continuity. If the movie gets retold though, pretty sure Toei will use those forms (as well as Toyotaro using the said form in the previous parenthesis), which, actually, there wouldn't be a problem as those forms exist in Toei's continuity, they would merely be following their own set of rules and logic previously established so that it makes sense to itself.

Gotta say, happy to see we can seemingly be on the same page, at least on this matter.

[Miracles]

Therefore the movies, written by Toriyama himself have not been retconned by Super as many like to claim. If that were the case, why did Toriyama continue those former movies theme about Goku and Vegeta using just red and blue in the DBS Broly movie and not the original anime forms like Blue Kaioken and SSBE Vegeta? The TV series didn't replace stories soley written by the creator himself. lol...

What you said is just one of many things that point to the fact that movies are still valid and that Toriyama's continuity is a valid one to consider (after all, he's the author right?). Clearly there is no "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-Ken" and "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution" (and "Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" for that matter) in Toriyama's eyes/continuity. If the movie gets retold though, pretty sure Toei will use those forms (as well as Toyotaro using the said form in the previous parenthesis), which, actually, there wouldn't be a problem as those forms exist in Toei's continuity, they would merely be following their own set of rules and logic previously established so that it makes sense to itself.

Gotta say, happy to see we can seemingly be on the same page, at least on this matter.

Yep. IIRC we didn't disagree on much. Just that mural from Shueisha.

[dragon boss z]

Is it a case of an alternate timeline like how the Androids in Trunks' Future were stated to not be as powerful as the Androids in the main timeline? Or are SSJG & SSJB actually a lot more powerful in the BOG/ROF films than in DBS thus it only seems like Movie Beerus is weaker?

The movie events of BoG and RoF have been retconned out of existence and the DBS versions take there places. They dont matter anymore. They aren’t alternate timelines or anything.

Wrong, the anime versions are no more canon than the movie versions. If you consider the original Toriyama manga more canon than the anime, then the movies are actually more canon due to the fact they follow the manga while the Super anime has anime only characters and references. Not to mention in the Broly movie Trable was mentioned again, while he was mentioned in the BoG movie but not the anime, and Trunks didn't recognize Frieza soldiers, which lines up with him not being their in the RoF movie and not the anime version where he should recognize Frieza soldiers.
When it comes to Super, there is no definitive version. There is the movies, the manga, and the anime, and they all follow the same story in slightly different ways.

[dragon boss z]

Therefore the movies, written by Toriyama himself have not been retconned by Super as many like to claim. If that were the case, why did Toriyama continue those former movies theme about Goku and Vegeta using just red and blue in the DBS Broly movie and not the original anime forms like Blue Kaioken and SSBE Vegeta? The TV series didn't replace stories soley written by the creator himself. lol...

What you said is just one of many things that point to the fact that movies are still valid and that Toriyama's continuity is a valid one to consider (after all, he's the author right?). Clearly there is no "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-Ken" and "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution" (and "Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" for that matter) in Toriyama's eyes/continuity. If the movie gets retold though, pretty sure Toei will use those forms (as well as Toyotaro using the said form in the previous parenthesis), which, actually, there wouldn't be a problem as those forms exist in Toei's continuity, they would merely be following their own set of rules and logic previously established so that it makes sense to itself.

Gotta say, happy to see we can seemingly be on the same page, at least on this matter.

Yep. IIRC we didn't disagree on much. Just that canon mural from Shueisha.

Yeah, I agree with you guys. It seems when they make the movies they keep everything closer to Toriyama's vision. In the movie they went back to giving kid Vegeta his BoG style hair instead of the anime version super was doing, they left out kaioken and evolution, ect. The reason is probably that it's much easier for Toriyama to oversee a one and a half hour movie, plus the limited screen time makes it essentially his bare bones script instead of adding extra stuff like they can do in the anime.
Not to mention saying they were "retconned" because the anime made versions of them doesn't make sense, as that's like saying the anime got retconned because of Toyotaro's manga. They are all just 3 different enterpratations of Toriyama's story, there is no main "canon" version, just a "canon" story that they are all telling. It's like saying the Harry Potter movies retconed the books, no they are just different versions of the same story.

[Tai Lung]

the same are not alternative lines, the movies are discontinued with the arrival of the series.

Frieza, cell or buu were strong but the level of destruction was not too much even before many doubted that cell was solar system buster because it did not destroy one but all threatened to destroy a planet becoming repetitive
but with beerus that had to demonstrate a huge difference of power with the previous villains had to demonstrate more power I think that the blows that make the universe tremble and were going to destroy it is enough

[AnimeNation101]

This might be new to you but ever heard of a little thing called headcanon?

You already proved my point. Toriyama was expressing an opinion. Not a statement canon to the series. Thats that.

And fans just beliving the dbz movies are alternate dimensions are using something known as a “headcanon.” Headcanon: Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Seems like you are the one using "headcanon" to say that there is no "alternate dimension". Authors stating their own stance related to a certain piece of work is surely something the "fandom" can (and should) follow. After all, you can't say that the movies don't take place in another dimension when the author himself says so. You can't say that Dragon Ball GT is not a side-story when author himself stated what his stance on the matter is.

Lol, for using XV has evidence. Video games have never been an source of official info pertaining to the main continuity.

You asked for something official, games are official materials no matter how much people want to disregard them. And in reality, video-games are more valid than fandom's opinions (unless, of course, a game comes up with something contradictory, then we stick to what is a fact in the "main continuity"). If XV2 corroborates with the fact that the movies do take place in another dimension (and surely the game does, because it is mentioned throughout of it), then that's the real thing until another official work or the author comes up with something different. After all, "alternate dimension" concept does not contradict anything. On the contrary, not only the concept explains the movies in-universe, it expands the lore of Dragon Ball in a great way.

Just the sheer existence of the BoG and RoF arcs is enough to completely retcon the original stories of BoG and RoF (the movies) to the point where they dont exist anymore like with any other event or info that has been retconned.

So the slightly different events of BoG and RoF in the anime overwrite the events from the movie therefore making it obsolete and non-existent in the main continuity of Dragon Ball.

Still no evidence claiming that we must consider the retellings and completely forget about the movies. May I ask you again to provide it?

So i tell you Toriyama’s statement was based off opinion which means what he’s saying isn’t what’s actually a fact.

I tell you fans just believing shit that isn’t confirmed because they want to for a series is headcanon. And you reply saying that fans should be allowed to assume shit like “the dbz movies take place in an alternate dimension.” Didn’t day they coudn’t But its called headcanon. Basically at the same level of canon as fanfics. Its something YOU THINK but isn’t actually ever confirmed in the series and can therefore not be taken seriously as evidence or when talking about the ACTUAL events of the series.

I tell you what retcons are and how BoG and RoF in the anime retconned the movies out of exist because you clearly didn’t know what they were (and clearly still don’t).

I dont have to provide proof. You want proof? Re-read my original response until you can understand what I'm saying no matter how difficult it is for you to comprehend.

[AnimeNation101]

Is it a case of an alternate timeline like how the Androids in Trunks' Future were stated to not be as powerful as the Androids in the main timeline? Or are SSJG & SSJB actually a lot more powerful in the BOG/ROF films than in DBS thus it only seems like Movie Beerus is weaker?

The movie events of BoG and RoF have been retconned out of existence and the DBS versions take there places. They dont matter anymore. They aren’t alternate timelines or anything.

Wrong, the anime versions are no more canon than the movie versions. If you consider the original Toriyama manga more canon than the anime, then the movies are actually more canon due to the fact they follow the manga while the Super anime has anime only characters and references. Not to mention in the Broly movie Trable was mentioned again, while he was mentioned in the BoG movie but not the anime, and Trunks didn't recognize Frieza soldiers, which lines up with him not being their in the RoF movie and not the anime version where he should recognize Frieza soldiers.
When it comes to Super, there is no definitive version. There is the movies, the manga, and the anime, and they all follow the same story in slightly different ways.

Dude. The DBZ B.o.G and R.o.F movies aren't A PART of DBS. All DBS has is the anime, the manga, and the DBS Broly movie.

The argument isn’t over which one is more canon. Yall really need to research what a retcon is. Do that and comprehend this. The DBZ Movie versions of the B.o.G and R.o.F stories were overwritten when the DBS versions, the more RECENT versions of the stories came and had differnt events.

Tarble being mentioned or not doesn’t mean shit when it comes to retcons. The DBZ movies were FACTUALLY retconned by DBS. And just like any other thing thats been retconned, its obsolete.

For example, the Tuffles were originally the ones who created scouters. Toriyama recently retconned this by having Kikono being the one who created them. That means that all this lore with the Tuffles inventing the scouters has been overwritten. It’s obsolete.

Its not that hard to understand.

[dragon boss z]

Dude. The DBZ B.o.G and R.o.F movies aren't A PART of DBS. All DBS has is the anime, the manga, and the DBS Broly movie.

I agree BoG and RoF aren't apart of the DBS anime, but DBS Broly doesn't seem to be a 100% sequel to the anime either as SSB kaioken and SSBE weren't a thing.

The argument isn’t over which one is more canon. Yall really need to research what a retcon is. Do that and comprehend this. The DBZ Movie versions of the B.o.G and R.o.F stories were overwritten when the DBS versions, the more RECENT versions of the stories came and had differnt events.

I know what a retcon is, and this isnt' it. The DBS anime is a continuation of the anime, with filler characters like Gregory, so of course the BoG and RoF movie, which were made to be continuations of the manga and had no filler in it aren't apart of the same continuity as the super anime.

Tarble being mentioned or not doesn’t mean shit when it comes to retcons. The DBZ movies were FACTUALLY retconned by DBS. And just like any other thing thats been retconned, its obsolete.

You can't say it'ts retconned because they were never apart of the same continuity to begin with. Just like how the Super manga isn't. Does the Super manga retcon the anime? No, they are just different continuities, same with the movies.

For example, the Tuffles were originally the ones who created scouters. Toriyama recently retconned this by having Kikono being the one who created them. That means that all this lore with the Tuffles inventing the scouters has been overwritten. It’s obsolete.

I agree with this, but this isn't the same at all. I don't think the tuffles designing the scouters was ever Toriyama's idea and he probably never considered it canon. But the fact is Toriyama may actually consider the RoF movie more his vision than the anime version which strays from his script, so Toie's adaptation doesn't overwrite or retcon Toriyama's.

Its not that hard to understand.

You would think, but it seems you don't understand the differnce between a retcon and a different continuity. The super anime IS NOT THE MAIN CANON, if it was it would be a retcon, but the fact there is also a manga that is completely different, that is still going, and is also considered canon, means there isn't one continuity that stands above the rest. The RoF movie is arguably the Super manga versions of the events as well, so if you consider the Super manga the direct continuation of the manga, then maybe BoG was retconned, but RoF would still be the manga versions of the events.

But I will agree, Beerus was retconned to be stronger, but I could argue he was retconned to be stronger before Super, considering SSG was supposedly 60% of Beerus orginaly, but in RoF Whis said Goku and Vegeta couldn't beat Beerus together even though they had SSB, and Golden Frieza was stronger than SSB and he was afraid of Beerus and Toriyama said no matter how much Frieza trained he couldn't surpass Beerus. So Beerus' power was probalby retconned before Super even came out.