An attempt to calculate the multiplier of Super Saiyan forms

[apex_pretador]

Points to consider:

1. Super saiyan forms are multipliers. So, if super saiyan becomes stronger, base also becomes stronger, unless some special sort of training is involved.
2. Goku ~ = Vegeta (post majin) in base, SS & SS2
3. Goku & vegeta are both combat geniuses
4. The SS2 multiplier for goku or vegeta is equal to gohan
5. We will calculate both minimum as well as maximum multiplier in every case.
6. Gotenks can have different multipliers than goku/vegeta.
7. SS3 gotenks is around 2x buu saga SS3 goku.
PROOF:

Spoiler:

Fat buu was weaker than SS3 goku as well as grey buu. Grey buu was around SS3 goku. Then, he added fat buu's power to his own, and became super buu. So, super buu is slightly below 2x SS3 goku. Gotenks SS3 was slightly above super buu. So, he is around 2x SS3 goku.

8. Goku is around 50% healthy freeza in BoG/ DBS in base.

Case 1: Freeza fight
The same multiplier effective till HTC training
Minimum multiplier

Spoiler:

KK x20 tired goku was slightly above 50% freeza. Then freeza hit with spirit bomb and damaged him a lot. Then goku turned super saiyan, which replenished his ki. The fact that goku chose to be super saiyan rather than KK x20 to fight freeza indicates that Super saiyan multiplier must be ATLEAST 20x.

20x

Maximum multiplier

Spoiler:

The spirit bomb damage is overrated as hell. It also affected goku. Also, the SS transformation just gave him powerup, and not replenished his ki. So, SS must be well over 40x and with energy to spare so that he may leave after the fight.

50x

Case 2: BoG

The same multiplier is effective from cell games to SSG fight.

Minimum multiplier

SUPER SAIYAN:

Spoiler:

Base = 0.5 HF (Healthy freeza)

Now, let initial SS Vegeta = Y. Then,

Imp. cell = 1.1 Y
#17 = 1.2 Y
IC post = 1.4 Y
Semi-cell = 2.3 Y = IC (pre) + #17
Super vegeta = 2.5 Y
CG goku = 5 Y
Buu arc SS goku = 6 Y
BoG SS goku = 12 Y (BoG SS3 Goku was comparable to gohan / gotenks, so around 2x increase )

Now, initial SS vegeta >> Piccolo >> sick goku >> Mecha freeza (on earth, suppressed ) >>> Piccolo / vegeta.
So, I'll put him ATLEAST 1.6x HF.
Y >= 1.6 HF
BoG SS goku >= 19.2 HF

Multiplier >= 38.4x ~ = 40x

40x base

SUPER SAIYAN 2:

Spoiler:

CG goku = 5 Y, so cell must be atleast 7 Y if he is confident that even after a lot of damage, he can defeat goku post senzu.
Cell = 7 Y
Gohan = 5.5 Y
SS2 Gohan was significantly stronger than cell, so much that he could kill him in 1 blow, but his power was a bit less than buff cell.
SS2 gohan = 10 Y Fits nicely

So , multiplier = 1.8x

1.8x SS = 72x Base

SUPER SAIYAN 3:

Spoiler:

SS2 weak gohan was 50% fat buu. SS2 Goku was even stronger than SS2 kid gohan, let alone current one.
SS2 adult gohan = 8.75 Y
SS2 Kid gohan = 10 Y
SS2 Goku = 10.8 Y
Fat buu = 17.5 Y

Goku said that as a SS3, he could kill fat buu completely, including his regen & SS3 stamina issue. He must be atleast 20% stronger than him. So,
SS3 goku >= 21Y
SS3 goku = 21.6 Y = 2x SS2

2x SS2 = 144x base

Maximum multipliers

SUPER SAIYAN:

Spoiler:

Base = 0.5 HF

SS = ?
Imp. cell pre = 1.15 Y
#17 = 1.35 Y
Piccolo = 1.38 Y
IC post = 1.7 Y
Semi cell = 2x IC post = 3.4 Y
Super Vegeta = 4 Y
CG goku = 8.8 Y
Buu arc goku = 10 Y
BoG goku = 20 Y

Now, it is also possible that tien compared sick goku to SS trunks. In that case, Y = around 2.5x HF
Multiplier = 20 x 2.5 / 0.5 = 100x

100x base

SUPER SAIYAN 2:

Spoiler:

CG goku = 8.8 Y
Cell = 14 Y (he can't be 2x goku, as he thought goku is a great opponent)
CG gohan = 9.6 Y (10% above goku)
Buff cell = 23-24 Y ( PC buff went from more than 50% goku to less than 100% goku when he fought trunks)
SS2 gohan ~= buff cell ~= 24 Y

Multiplier ~= 2.5 x

2.5x SS = 250x base

SUPER SAIYAN 3:

Spoiler:

SS2 gohan adult = 21.5 Y
Fat Buu = 43 Y
SS2 goku = 25 Y
Grey buu = 50 Y
Super buu = 93 Y
SS3 goku was unable to fight super buu, so there must be >=20% difference
SS3 goku = 75 Y at most

3x SS2 = 750x base

Case 3: GT

Minimum

SUPER SAIYAN 3:

Spoiler:

Goku fought Baby vegeta in base for long time. So, he can't be 4x weaker than him. Remember that baby isn't saiyaqn, so he won't continue fighting for no reason.
SS3 goku was WEAKER than the same baby vegeta. So, he can't be stronger than 4x base goku.

SS3 = 4x base

GOLDEN OZARU:

It is stronger than SS3 as well as ozaru, so atleast, he must be SS3 + Ozaru , i.e. 4x + 10x = 14x base

14x base

SUPER SAIYAN 4:

SS4 was implied to be controlled golden ozaru = 14x base
14x base

Maximum multiplier

SUPER SAIYAN 3:

Spoiler:

SBV 1 was stronger than SS vegetto. This means that Baby vegeta can be at most equal to SS vegetto, and can't be higher. So, baby vegeta can't be more than 100x stronger than buuhan.
BV = 100x buuhan (at most)
SS3 goku = 90x buuhan at most
Base goku could effortlessly fight gohan and beat him without going all out. Now, let Super buu = Z
Super buu = Z
SS3 gotenks = 1.1 Z
Gohan = 1.3 Z
Buuhan = 2.3 Z
SS3 goku = 207 Z (at most)
Base goku = 1.5 Z (at least)

Multiplier = 138x base

138x base

GOLDEN OZARU:

10 times SS3?

1380x base

SUPER SAIYAN 4:

Stronger than golden ozaru. 10x SBV2 was equal to SS4 goku.

1500x base

[Pocket-God]

the multipliers are-

Super Saiyan = 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 100x base/2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base/4x Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 4 = 4000x base/10x Super Saiyan 3

It's pretty much what the majority of the db fandom goes with and imho it's the best multipliers to work with, everything else just seems random and stupid :V

[ShadowBardock89]

the multipliers are-

Super Saiyan = 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 100x base/2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base/4x Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 4 = 4000x base/10x Super Saiyan 3

It's pretty much what the majority of the db fandom goes with and imho it's the best multipliers to work with, everything else just seems random and stupid :V

There is more to it than that. You can't just slap that on a Saiyan character and say that is that character's level as a Super Saiyan.
I go more in depth in this thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1031026

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

the multipliers are-

Super Saiyan = 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 100x base/2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base/4x Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 4 = 4000x base/10x Super Saiyan 3

It's pretty much what the majority of the db fandom goes with and imho it's the best multipliers to work with, everything else just seems random and stupid :V

I would like to point out that SS4=SS3×10 is fan made, the rest comes directly from Daizenshuu 7.

There is more to it than that. You can't just slap that on a Saiyan character and say that is that character's level as a Super Saiyan.
I go more in depth in this thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1031026

No that's all there is to it. The Super Saiyan transformation are plain and simple multipliers. If a random Saiyan has PL of 100, as a SS1 he/she would have a PL of 5000, plain and simple.

[dbgtFO]

No that's all there is to it. The Super Saiyan transformation are plain and simple multipliers. If a random Saiyan has PL of 100, as a SS1 he/she would have a PL of 5000, plain and simple.

Nothing says that anywhere and the Daizenshuu 7 even mentions that one of the requirements is a high battle power in the first place.
Rules may be different for people with diluted Saiyan blood, if the GT epilouge and TV special is anything to go by.

[Kamiccolo9]

the multipliers are-

Super Saiyan = 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 100x base/2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base/4x Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 4 = 4000x base/10x Super Saiyan 3

It's pretty much what the majority of the db fandom goes with and imho it's the best multipliers to work with, everything else just seems random and stupid :V

I would like to point out that SS4=SS3×10 is fan made, the rest comes directly from Daizenshuu 7.

Only the multiplier for the basic Super Saiyan is anywhere in the Daizenshuu. The numbers for the others come from the Super Exciting Guide.

Incidentally, Daizenshuu 7's description of Super Saiyan 3 says that the form draws out the hidden power of a Saiyan to its limits, which is more or less the same thing that the Perfect Files (I think?) say about Super Saiyan 4.

[ShadowBardock89]

the multipliers are-

Super Saiyan = 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 = 100x base/2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3 = 400x base/4x Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 4 = 4000x base/10x Super Saiyan 3

It's pretty much what the majority of the db fandom goes with and imho it's the best multipliers to work with, everything else just seems random and stupid :V

I would like to point out that SS4=SS3×10 is fan made, the rest comes directly from Daizenshuu 7.

There is more to it than that. You can't just slap that on a Saiyan character and say that is that character's level as a Super Saiyan.
I go more in depth in this thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1031026

No that's all there is to it. The Super Saiyan transformation are plain and simple multipliers. If a random Saiyan has PL of 100, as a SS1 he/she would have a PL of 5000, plain and simple.

Nope, you need to have at least a threshold of 3,000,000 to even begin to ATTEMPT to train for Super Saiyan.
I've done the math.
Let's use the same multiplier, but on Goku.
Goku's base power level was 416 at the beginning of Z.
Super Saiyan Goku: 20,800
Actual Super Saiyan Goku: 150,000,000
Based on your calculations, Super Saiyan Goku could beat Cui and Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but would struggle against Zarbon and Dodoria.
The Ginyu Force, let alone Freeza, is out of the question.

I'm discounting Goten and Trunks because there is a lot of questions than answers regarding how they became Super Saiyans.

[Kamiccolo9]

Nope, you need to have at least a threshold of 3,000,000 to even begin to ATTEMPT to train for Super Saiyan.
I've done the math.
Let's use the same multiplier, but on Goku.
Goku's base power level was 416 at the beginning of Z.
Super Saiyan Goku: 20,800
Actual Super Saiyan Goku: 150,000,000
Based on your calculations, Super Saiyan Goku could beat Cui and Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but would struggle against Zarbon and Dodoria.
The Ginyu Force, let alone Freeza, is out of the question.

I'm discounting Goten and Trunks because there is a lot of questions than answers regarding how they became Super Saiyans.

The narrator said that Goku had passed the threshold of a "normal Saiyan" during his training on the way to Namek.

And then you have Base Gohan fighting off Super Saiyan Future Trunks in the Trunks Special.

They do have to achieve a high enough base power, but it's way lower than 3 million.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Nothin in the manga indicates that you need to have more than xxxxxxxxxx amount of power level to archive Super Saiyan.

[Kamiccolo9]

Nothin in the manga indicates that you need to have more than xxxxxxxxxx amount of power level to archive Super Saiyan.

Vegeta and the narrator both say that you have to pass the "normal Saiyan limits," and the narrator goes on to say that Goku did this while traveling to Namek. Given that Vegeta himself hadn't done this, the result is that "surpassing the normal Saiyan limits" requires a battle power somewhere between the thirtysomething thousand that Vegeta had, and the ninety thousand that Goku had upon his arrival.

[Tectorman]

Nothin in the manga indicates that you need to have more than xxxxxxxxxx amount of power level to archive Super Saiyan.

Vegeta and the narrator both say that you have to pass the "normal Saiyan limits," and the narrator goes on to say that Goku did this while traveling to Namek. Given that Vegeta himself hadn't done this, the result is that "surpassing the normal Saiyan limits" requires a battle power somewhere between the thirtysomething thousand that Vegeta had, and the ninety thousand that Goku had upon his arrival.

But does that evenly apply across the entire Saiyan race?

Goku is said to have surpassed the normal Saiyan limits between 30,000 and 90,000, while Vegeta never got such a comment (well, no comment that wasn't self-aggrandizing) until after Trunks first came and Vegeta's PL was in the multiple millions.

So if each individual Saiyan surpasses the limits of his race at different PLs, why couldn't Raditz's theoretical threshold be in the mere thousands or even hundreds?

Edit/PS: I mean, the GT special where Goku Jr. has next to no fighting experience and a PL of maybe 20, tops, and then turning SSJ didn't flag anything wrong to me.

[ShadowBardock89]

Nothin in the manga indicates that you need to have more than xxxxxxxxxx amount of power level to archive Super Saiyan.

Vegeta and the narrator both say that you have to pass the "normal Saiyan limits," and the narrator goes on to say that Goku did this while traveling to Namek. Given that Vegeta himself hadn't done this, the result is that "surpassing the normal Saiyan limits" requires a battle power somewhere between the thirtysomething thousand that Vegeta had, and the ninety thousand that Goku had upon his arrival.

But does that evenly apply across the entire Saiyan race?

Goku is said to have surpassed the normal Saiyan limits between 30,000 and 90,000, while Vegeta never got such a comment (well, no comment that wasn't self-aggrandizing) until after Trunks first came and Vegeta's PL was in the multiple millions.

So if each individual Saiyan surpasses the limits of his race at different PLs, why couldn't Raditz's theoretical threshold be in the mere thousands or even hundreds?

This is discussed in Majin Whis' thread here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=32673

I delved into this and I have to say, while the Super Saiyan multiplier may have been found, I contend there is a factor that should NOT be ignored and that is the role of training for Super Saiyan.
After doing the math, Vegeta was not going to get to Super Saiyan with Zenkai alone. The Zenkai multiplier, which fluctuates between 1 1/3 ~ 1 2/3, is just too small (putting aside the supposed 8 1/3 Zenkai multiplier Vegeta got after being healed from fighting Recoome according to V-Jump, jumping him from 30,000 to 250,000). I did not even bother putting Goku on the Path to Super Saiyan with just Zenkai alone as it was to abysmal (even worse than Raditz would've).
Training (or some other "Get-Power-Quick" method) yielded better results. I discovered that training + Zenkai is the ticket.
Taking Goku at the beginning of Z (416) to when he confronted Freeza face to face (3,000,000), the multiplier is ~ 7,211 (to be exact, it is 7,211.53846154)
Put this into perspective: Vegeta was at 18,000 when the series began and while he did not exactly train at all, unlike Goku, I suspect it took Vegeta a shorter amount of time to reach Super Saiyan than Goku once he began training. However, we do not know Vegeta's base level from when he was wished back to life to when he fought Android 19 as it became a moot point, so we cannot confirm if it indeed it took Vegeta a shorter amount of time to become Super Saiyan than Goku did.
All I know is if Raditz went through the same training method as his brother, he'd be a monster with a base power level between 8,653,846.15385 to 10,817,307.6923 (WITHOUT Kaioken) and he would merc Freeza with a Super Saiyan power level between 432,692,307.692 and 540,865,384.615
For comparison, V-Jump said Cooler had 470,000,000 as his power level.
Nappa would get there faster than Raditz as his base power, according to Daizenshuu 7, is 4,000.
I could do the math, but if Raditz's beginning power level is 1,200 (if you accept he has the same level as a Saibaman) or 1,500 (according to a 1989 Weekly Jump issue and reiterated in Daizenshuu 7), and you see my findings above, then Nappa could crush all of Freeza's Empire by himself.

[Hitiro]

Nappa would get there faster than Raditz as his base power, according to Daizenshuu 7, is 4,000.
I could do the math, but if Raditz's beginning power level is 1,200 (if accept he has the same level as a Saibaman) or 1,500 (according to a 1989 Weekly Jump issue and reiterated in Daizenshuu 7), and you see my findings above, then Nappa could crush all of Freeza's Empire by himself.

You say Nappa would get there faster than Raditz because his base power was higher. Then shouldn't that be the case for Vegeta too? Yet it took Vegeta at least another year, perhaps more, to reach SSJ after Goku. Yet Vegeta started at 18,000. Also, Vegeta would be comparable to Goku's 3 million during the Freeza arc when Vegeta was fighting Freeza because Vegeta was at least confident enough to believe he could take fourth form Freeza. Second form Freeza had a battle power of 1 million. Piccolo had a battle power surpassing that 1 million and then Freeza surpassed that battle power with his second transformation. Even putting Freeza at 3% of his full power Freeza would match Goku's 3 million. So Vegeta would be somewhere close to 3 million and well over 2 million. All your math suggests is that the characters would be too weak to fight against Freeza if the requirement was too low. That doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be low.

As Kamiccolo9 stated earlier the narrator had already confirmed that Goku had surpassed the Saiyan limit which everyone seems to believe is needed for a Saiyan to be able to become a SSJ. We can pretty much confirm that Vegeta took longer to reach SSJ than Goku did. Because Vegeta was training and getting Zenkai's before Goku even arrived back on Earth after a year. And during that year Vegeta still hadn't gained SSJ. Despite already being in the high 2 millions prior to training and attempting gravity levels much higher than Goku. In fact I believe it was 6 months until they wished everyone back and then 1 year for Goku to come back. So forget what I said about at least a year earlier. Vegeta had been training at gravity levels over 100+ and worked himself ragged on Earth for 1 and a half years before Goku came home.

[ShadowBardock89]

Nappa would get there faster than Raditz as his base power, according to Daizenshuu 7, is 4,000.
I could do the math, but if Raditz's beginning power level is 1,200 (if accept he has the same level as a Saibaman) or 1,500 (according to a 1989 Weekly Jump issue and reiterated in Daizenshuu 7), and you see my findings above, then Nappa could crush all of Freeza's Empire by himself.

You say Nappa would get there faster than Raditz because his base power was higher. Then shouldn't that be the case for Vegeta too? Yet it took Vegeta at least another year, perhaps more, to reach SSJ after Goku. Yet Vegeta started at 18,000. Also, Vegeta would be comparable to Goku's 3 million during the Freeza arc when Vegeta was fighting Freeza because Vegeta was at least confident enough to believe he could take fourth form Freeza. Second form Freeza had a battle power of 1 million. Piccolo had a battle power surpassing that 1 million and then Freeza surpassed that battle power with his second transformation. Even putting Freeza at 3% of his full power Freeza would match Goku's 3 million. So Vegeta would be somewhere close to 3 million and well over 2 million. All your math suggests is that the characters would be too weak to fight against Freeza if the requirement was too low. That doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be low.

As Kamiccolo9 stated earlier the narrator had already confirmed that Goku had surpassed the Saiyan limit which everyone seems to believe is needed for a Saiyan to be able to become a SSJ. We can pretty much confirm that Vegeta took longer to reach SSJ than Goku did. Because Vegeta was training and getting Zenkai's before Goku even arrived back on Earth after a year. And during that year Vegeta still hadn't gained SSJ. Despite already being in the high 2 millions prior to training and attempting gravity levels much higher than Goku. In fact I believe it was 6 months until they wished everyone back and then 1 year for Goku to come back. So forget what I said about at least a year earlier. Vegeta had been training at gravity levels over 100+ and worked himself ragged on Earth for 1 and a half years before Goku came home.

Again, we don't know the Zenkai multiplier or power level Vegeta received when he was healed by Dende and challenged Freeza (again), only to be ROFL Stomped (you say he was confident, I say he was delusional), and if he received one from being wished back to life, but yes, it took longer for Vegeta to become Super Saiyan than Goku for a couple of reasons: 1) During the time between the end of the battle with Freeza to when they wished everyone back with the Dragon Balls, did Vegeta train? 2) Again, his actual levels when he started to train and when he finally reached Super Saiyan. I would like to know his actual growth, but there is nothing to go by.
If Goku is not eating, sleeping, or fighting, he is training. Vegeta, at least until when Trunks arrived, seemed to try to replicate what Goku did but perhaps it was just Zenkai boosting, which does not do too much, and he seemed to have taken more "breaks" from it than Goku.
The point is that there is some unknown variables between Vegeta challenging Freeza the first time and when he did become Super Saiyan, including if the "breaks" factored in taking longer for him than Goku to become Super Saiyan.
As for Goku at 3,000,000, that is his base and the start of the fight. I did not factor in Kaioken, nor did I factor in that Goku might be suppressing his full strength (something Freeza alludes to and it would not be the first time).

[Kamiccolo9]

Again, we don't know the Zenkai multiplier or power level Vegeta received when he was healed by Dende and challenged Freeza (again), only to be ROFL Stomped (you say he was confident, I say he was delusional), and if he received one from being wished back to life, but yes, it took longer for Vegeta to become Super Saiyan than Goku for a couple of reasons: 1) During the time between the end of the battle with Freeza to when they wished everyone back with the Dragon Balls, did Vegeta train? 2) Again, we do not his power level when he left Earth (again), when he came back (took a bit of a break from training), and when he finally reached Super Saiyan. I would like to know his actual growth, but there is nothing to go by.
If Goku is not eating, sleeping, or fighting, he is training. Vegeta, at least until when Trunks arrived, seemed to try to replicate what Goku did but perhaps it was just Zenkai boosting, which does not do too much, and he seemed to have taken more "breaks" from it than Goku.
The point is that there is some unknown variables between Vegeta challenging Freeza the first time and when he did become Super Saiyan, including if the "breaks" factored in taking longer for him than Goku to become Super Saiyan.
As for Goku at 3,000,000, that is his base and the start of the fight. I did not factor in Kaioken, nor did I factor in that Goku might be suppressing his full strength (something Freeza alludes to and it would not be the first time).

We know that it took Vegeta from being able to stand up to first-form Freeza to being stronger than Piccolo, at the very least. We also know that he was still weaker than Goku by a fair amount. It's not particularly hard to narrow down a rough range for Vegeta to be in. He'd have to be in the upper one millions, or low two millions.

As for powering up after being wished back to life....no. It's called a "near death power boost." Dieing kinda violates the "near death" part of that. Besides, Goku didn't get one when Piccolo killed him; why would Vegeta have gotten one?

The reason that Vegeta didn't become a Super Saiyan before Goku is because he didn't meet the emotional requirement. He didn't get mad enough; it's as simple as that. He met the power requirement after Goku gave him a senzu and he took his power nap, but he didn't experience the sheer amount of anger needed until after Trunks arrived.

[ShadowBardock89]

Again, we don't know the Zenkai multiplier or power level Vegeta received when he was healed by Dende and challenged Freeza (again), only to be ROFL Stomped (you say he was confident, I say he was delusional), and if he received one from being wished back to life, but yes, it took longer for Vegeta to become Super Saiyan than Goku for a couple of reasons: 1) During the time between the end of the battle with Freeza to when they wished everyone back with the Dragon Balls, did Vegeta train? 2) Again, we do not his power level when he left Earth (again), when he came back (took a bit of a break from training), and when he finally reached Super Saiyan. I would like to know his actual growth, but there is nothing to go by.
If Goku is not eating, sleeping, or fighting, he is training. Vegeta, at least until when Trunks arrived, seemed to try to replicate what Goku did but perhaps it was just Zenkai boosting, which does not do too much, and he seemed to have taken more "breaks" from it than Goku.
The point is that there is some unknown variables between Vegeta challenging Freeza the first time and when he did become Super Saiyan, including if the "breaks" factored in taking longer for him than Goku to become Super Saiyan.
As for Goku at 3,000,000, that is his base and the start of the fight. I did not factor in Kaioken, nor did I factor in that Goku might be suppressing his full strength (something Freeza alludes to and it would not be the first time).

We know that it took Vegeta from being able to stand up to first-form Freeza to being stronger than Piccolo, at the very least. We also know that he was still weaker than Goku by a fair amount. It's not particularly hard to narrow down a rough range for Vegeta to be in. He'd have to be in the upper one millions, or low two millions.

As for powering up after being wished back to life....no. It's called a "near death power boost." Dieing kinda violates the "near death" part of that. Besides, Goku didn't get one when Piccolo killed him; why would Vegeta have gotten one?

The reason that Vegeta didn't become a Super Saiyan before Goku is because he didn't meet the emotional requirement. He didn't get mad enough; it's as simple as that. He met the power requirement after Goku gave him a senzu and he took his power nap, but he didn't experience the sheer amount of anger needed until after Trunks arrived.

Wait. Putting aside the physical requirement for now, this puts up another question regarding Kid Trunks and Goten. What the black on a Popo caused Goten and Kid Trunks to meet the emotional requirement?

[Kamiccolo9]

Wait. Putting aside the physical requirement for now, this puts up another question regarding Kid Trunks and Goten. What the black on a Popo caused Goten and Kid Trunks to meet the emotional requirement?

They didn't need it because they were, as Toriyama put it, "prodigies."

If the author's words aren't good enough for you, just assume they had a childish tantrum over something. Kids tend to not be as emotionally repressed as adults.

[Darkprince410]

All I know is if Raditz went through the same training method as his brother, he'd be a monster with a base power level between 8,653,846.15385 to 10,817,307.6923 (WITHOUT Kaioken) and he would merc Freeza with a Super Saiyan power level between 432,692,307.692 and 540,865,384.615
For comparison, V-Jump said Cooler had 470,000,000 as his power level.
Nappa would get there faster than Raditz as his base power, according to Daizenshuu 7, is 4,000.
I could do the math, but if Raditz's beginning power level is 1,200 (if you accept he has the same level as a Saibaman) or 1,500 (according to a 1989 Weekly Jump issue and reiterated in Daizenshuu 7), and you see my findings above, then Nappa could crush all of Freeza's Empire by himself.

You say that like training with the same methods would result in equal gains for a hypothetical training Raditz as it would have Goku. Each individual is going to have their own results from training with the same methods, just because the nature of their strength gains, their potential, etc aren't going to be identical to one another.

Besides, I'm not following what near-death power-ups have to do at all with determining the multipliers for the Super Saiya-jin forms. At no point is there an indication that there's a set minimum level of power (outside of "surpassing a Saiya-jin's limits"), nor is it indicated that the transformation will force the individual to go from X to Y power, like I've seen you suggest when it came to a hypothetical early Z Goku somehow getting the transformation when his base battle power was 416.

If there was any indication that the transformation had to jump them to a level in the hundred million range, then sure, a static multiplier wouldn't make sense, but there's nothing said that it HAS to be that way. Besides, prior to Goku's actual transformation, there wasn't even an indicator that it was a physical transformation at all, rather it just be a high level of power achieved in the base form.

Wait. Putting aside the physical requirement for now, this puts up another question regarding Kid Trunks and Goten. What the black on a Popo caused Goten and Kid Trunks to meet the emotional requirement?

The Daizenshuu clearly indicates that they were able to transform with ease, when the task was normally quite arduous, all thanks to them being born as tailless hybrids.

[ShadowBardock89]

All I know is if Raditz went through the same training method as his brother, he'd be a monster with a base power level between 8,653,846.15385 to 10,817,307.6923 (WITHOUT Kaioken) and he would merc Freeza with a Super Saiyan power level between 432,692,307.692 and 540,865,384.615
For comparison, V-Jump said Cooler had 470,000,000 as his power level.
Nappa would get there faster than Raditz as his base power, according to Daizenshuu 7, is 4,000.
I could do the math, but if Raditz's beginning power level is 1,200 (if you accept he has the same level as a Saibaman) or 1,500 (according to a 1989 Weekly Jump issue and reiterated in Daizenshuu 7), and you see my findings above, then Nappa could crush all of Freeza's Empire by himself.

You say that like training with the same methods would result in equal gains for a hypothetical training Raditz as it would have Goku. Each individual is going to have their own results from training with the same methods, just because the nature of their strength gains, their potential, etc aren't going to be identical to one another.

Besides, I'm not following what near-death power-ups have to do at all with determining the multipliers for the Super Saiya-jin forms. At no point is there an indication that there's a set minimum level of power (outside of "surpassing a Saiya-jin's limits"), nor is it indicated that the transformation will force the individual to go from X to Y power, like I've seen you suggest when it came to a hypothetical early Z Goku somehow getting the transformation when his base battle power was 416.

If there was any indication that the transformation had to jump them to a level in the hundred million range, then sure, a static multiplier wouldn't make sense, but there's nothing said that it HAS to be that way. Besides, prior to Goku's actual transformation, there wasn't even an indicator that it was a physical transformation at all, rather it just be a high level of power achieved in the base form.

True, each individual is going to have their own results, let alone their own methods. I'm not saying if Raditz WOULD have trained like Goku he would get nearly the same results, I'm saying he COULD have. In all likelihood, Raditz most likely would have tried to get a cheap "get-strong-quick" to get stronger, as depicted in the video games, or similar to Tullece and the Shinseijū fruit.

The Zenkai power ups DO help in surpassing the limits of a normal Saiyan as both Goku and Vegeta demonstrated, but that changes when you get into Super Saiyan territory. It becomes so minuscule that it may not be worth factoring in (if the multiplier was not small as it was). Save for Kid Trunks and Goten, there does seem to be a benchmark level that has to be surpassed for a Saiyan to even be in range of it. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and Future Trunks all had to get to that point before they could transform, so it should not be a wild suggestion that Raditz or Nappa would have to reach that point either. As for why I used Early Z Goku is because Majin Whis hypothesized this:

You know, I was looking at Super Saiyan multipliers and just found out how weak
Raditz really is. Lets look at who he can take on at his base power level of 1,200

In all actuality, the weakest Saiyan at that time WAS Goku! But, the difference is we know Goku's actual growth and we know where was in terms of power when he transformed.

[Darkprince410]

The Zenkai power ups DO help in surpassing the limits of a normal Saiyan as both Goku and Vegeta demonstrated, but that changes when you get into Super Saiyan territory. It becomes so minuscule that it may not be worth factoring in (if the multiplier was not small as it was). Save for Kid Trunks and Goten, there does seem to be a benchmark level that has to be surpassed for a Saiyan to even be in range of it. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and Future Trunks all had to get to that point before they could transform, so it should not be a wild suggestion that Raditz or Nappa would have to reach that point either. As for why I used Early Z Goku is because Majin Whis hypothesized this:

Actually, there's nothing showing that Future Trunks had such a threshold either. In the manga, we're shown Ssj Future Trunks sparring, with some difficulty, against base form Future Gohan, who was indicated to not be of any significant degree different to Freeza Saga Goku in terms of power. If Gohan is around that level, and Ssj Trunks is physically exhausted in trying to spar with him, that'd suggest that Trunks' base, at that particular time, was far, far lower.

And no, in all honesty, there's no indication there has to be a benchmark level. In fact, the one major thing that is noted is that it requires intense rage that unlocks a tranquil heart, and Freeza outright states that it's because of that which led to Vegeta never transforming, not his strength.

Chapter: 319 (DBZ 125), P9.4-5, P10.4-7
Goku: “I’m a Saiyan who came from Earth to defeat you…A legendary warrior whose tranquil heart has been awakened through intense rage…Super Saiyan Son Goku!”
Freeza: “I…I knew it…It seems you really are a Super Saiyan…Fu-fuffuffuh…So your tranquil heart was awakened through intense rage, huh?...I see, so that’s why Vegeta could never become one, no matter how hard he tried…”

One could technically argue that Goku (later Vegeta and Gohan) "surpassing their limits" was a coincidence, and isn't necessary for actually transforming.