How do your DB language preferences relate to others?

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-subtitles by any means. I wasn't even anti-subtitles when I was a kid. When I was in the 8th grade, there was a brief period of time where North American audiences were told that the video game Shenmue II would never see the light of day over in North America, so I went ahead and tracked down a European copy of the game and the equipment needed to allow my North American Dreamcast to bypass the European region code. While it's true that the game did eventually get an actual North American release complete with an English dub, it wasn't clear at the time that that would happen. So the fact that the game hadn't received an English dub yet didn't deter me, and I had no problem experiencing the game in Japanese with English subtitles...I could read them just fine.

I'm not even anti-subtitles when it comes to Dragon Ball. Lord knows that, at least until Kai, watching the dub was often like watching a completely different show.

For me, the issue of subtitles isn't so much an "it's distracting to read and watch at the same time" issue so much as it is an "I'm not as fluent in Japanese as I am in English" issue. Sure, the subtitles tell me what the characters are saying--if the subtitles are accurate, of course, which is a big "if," and another item of consideration--but as someone whose native tongue is not Japanese, I don't know if the acting is good or not. All really have to go on when judging Japanese acting is the speed and volume at which they speak. Countless subtleties of the Japanese language are lost on me. Conversely, in English, whether the acting is good or bad, at least I can formulate an informed opinion on whether it's good or bad because I know English very, very well, and none of the subtleties are lost on me.

With subtitles, I can understand the show, but with dubs, I can feel the show.

Justin Sevakis of Anime News Network wrote a fantastic article that deals with this subject. Quite frankly, the whole article is quotable for the purposes of this discussion, but I'd like to quote one section in particular:

"As any Japanese speaker will tell you, anime voice acting does not sound natural at all. In fact, the ways in which it's unnatural are very similar to the ways in which many English dubs can sound unnatural: they're rife with overly-perfect diction, general hamminess, and people 'doing voices' rather than actually acting...It's standard anime voice acting -- which is a varying combination of broadcast voice work, naturalistic acting, classical stage voice work, and a discipline all its own. A chunk of the actor's CPU cycles are always dedicated to following cues and matching timing, and that doubtlessly takes away from how much of themselves they can put into emotion. In the end, some of it's good, and some of it's genuinely bad. Just like with every other medium."

So for me, watching dubs is not a matter of, "I don't like to read and just want to relax." For me, it's a matter of wanting to experience the emotions of the acting, which I can't do for a language that I don't completely understand. The only true way around this dilemma, it would seem, would be to learn Japanese. For me, listening to a language in which I can't completely comprehend the emotional subtleties...that is the "reduced experience."

[Adamant]

I admit I'm not too familiar with the entertainment situation there.

In short, large amounts of available TV shows and movies are foreign, nothing aimed at audiences old enough to read is dubbed, and nobody would have supported such dubs if they were made either.

Your theory about why this is the case for you does make sense, though it's also a very very specific situation few people share, and I've seen that "I don't want to watch things in other languages because I want to relax and that's not relaxing" thing before. So while I can see why you'd feel that way, that theory doesn't work for a whole lot of other people besides yourself.

[ABED]

I admit I'm not too familiar with the entertainment situation there.

In short, large amounts of available TV shows and movies are foreign, nothing aimed at audiences old enough to read is dubbed, and nobody would have supported such dubs if they were made either.

Your theory about why this is the case for you does make sense, though it's also a very very specific situation few people share, and I've seen that "I don't want to watch things in other languages because I want to relax and that's not relaxing" thing before. So while I can see why you'd feel that way, that theory doesn't work for a whole lot of other people besides yourself.

Just different cultures, neither is wrong or right. And I don't know how you can honestly say very few people share the feeling of just wanting to come home and passively watch TV instead of reading as well which is a mentally active process. It's a VERY common feeling.

As any Japanese speaker will tell you, anime voice acting does not sound natural at all.

Neither does a lot of acting, that doesn't mean people aren't qualified to judge it. A lot of acting and even a lot of dialog isn't exactly like real life. Even when judging acting, it often comes down to, "that didn't sound right/real to me". So, I'm aware that Japanese is a very different language and I'm not an expert in it, hell I'm barely a novice, so I wouldn't be qualified to critique it beyond "that sounds good/bad" is good enough if you are just responding to something on an emotional level. I know very little about cooking but I know when I don't like what the chef made.

[TheBlackPaladin]

As any Japanese speaker will tell you, anime voice acting does not sound natural at all.

Neither does a lot of acting, that doesn't mean people aren't qualified to judge it. A lot of acting and even a lot of dialog isn't exactly like real life. Even when judging acting, it often comes down to, "that didn't sound right/real to me".

Absolutely, but the question posed for the author of the article I linked to was whether or not people are qualified to judge the acting of a language they don't speak...and...*shrug*...I'm just gonna say it, I think he has a point. I think the Japanese acting in Dragon Ball is good, but that's just an estimation based on the speed and volume at which the voice actors deliver their lines. I don't think I'm as qualified to judge it as someone who actually speaks Japanese fluently. That's a problem I don't run into with dubs. For me, feeling the emotions is the most important part of watching any show, and not knowing the language in which the actors are speaking their lines can certainly be a roadblock there.

[ABED]

Fair points, though I don't think I've had an issue with emotionally investing in original even though my understanding of Japanese is a pinky finger wide and construction paper deep.

[Adamant]

Ok, this is definitely going to sound elitist, but if you're just going to quote people, I'm fairly certain you can find numerous papers and articles arguing why movies should preferably be watched in their original language by far more qualified and educated people than some guy that writes about Japanese cartoons and their low budget dubs on the Internet for a living.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

So for me, watching dubs is not a matter of, "I don't like to read and just want to relax." For me, it's a matter of wanting to experience the emotions of the acting, which I can't do for a language that I don't completely understand. The only true way around this dilemma, it would seem, would be to learn Japanese. For me, listening to a language in which I can't completely comprehend the emotional subtleties...that is the "reduced experience."

Acting isn't restricted to language barriers though. I am telling you this from my experience watching a lot of foreign language films and tv shows. Acting is about like you said the emotions.An actor no matter whichever language if manages to appeal to one's emotions is a good actor.For example Ryuusei Nakao as Freeza i can't understand a damn thing he is saying without subs but the way he delivers each and every line the emotions he depicts everything appeals to me and i can tell without a slight of a doubt he is a good actor. Another example i don't know if it is a good one or not but still Charlie Chaplin most of his work is acting with expressions no dialogue at all yet he is one of the finest actors ever. By this example i am trying to point that acting doesn't even need a language medium to appeal to someone. So, I don't think it is reduced experience.


- Travis

[Super Sonic]

Ok, this is definitely going to sound elitist, but if you're just going to quote people, I'm fairly certain you can find numerous papers and articles arguing why movies should preferably be watched in their original language by far more qualified and educated people than some guy that writes about Japanese cartoons and their low budget dubs on the Internet for a living.

What about Japanese cartoons based on American things like Batman or the Marvel animes? Also I've heard in Japan, they watch dubbed versions of US cartoons and change their theme songs and don't care about watching them in English.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Ok, this is definitely going to sound elitist, but if you're just going to quote people, I'm fairly certain you can find numerous papers and articles arguing why movies should preferably be watched in their original language by far more qualified and educated people than some guy that writes about Japanese cartoons and their low budget dubs on the Internet for a living.

Well I don't think a dub's budget is necessarily an indicator of its quality, as there have been numerous, wonderful productions made on a low budget, but I digress.

In any event, I think you're coming at this from an academic standpoint, which is absolutely fine. However, I'm coming at this from the point of view of an audience member who wants to be emotionally invested in the characters, world, and story, and considers not knowing what the original actors are saying to be a perfectly legitimate obstacle in that regard. So did the author of that article. One doesn't need an academic degree to determine if a performance did or did not resonate with them.

Sure, with a dub you're watching an interpretation, but that's still a problem with subtitles as well. Even competent translators don't always agree on how to translate things. For example, when FUNimation originally released the first three DBZ movies on DVD in conjunction with Pioneer, they came with a subtitle track. When FUNimation later re-released those movies (mostly for the purposes of re-dubbing them), they opted to have Steve Simmons write a new subtitle track rather than going with the existing one. His subtitle track had Goku sounding like a hick, most notably through the frequent inclusion of the word "ain't," whereas the Pioneer subtitle track didn't have that at all. So, clearly, two people who knew the Japanese language very well still disagreed on how best to translate the dialogue.

So when you consider that translation choices are not universally agreed upon and that not all audience members are fluent in the original language, I'd say dubs are a perfectly legitimate alternative. For that matter, even some Japanese creators agree. In this interview with Chris Ayres, he talked about how he handled the dub of the anime, Nerima Daikon Brothers, originally directed by Shinichi Watanabe. After a screening of the dub that Watanabe attended, Watanabe was asked by one of the audience members about some of the changes made in the dub. Watanabe's response was that he agreed with the changes, because the point of the scenes in question was to get the audience to laugh, and the audience laughed hysterically.

With all that said, I maintain that the only true way around the dilemma of watching something in another language is to learn the language in question (which would be Japanese in the case of Dragon Ball). Failing that, as audience members, we have to choose between two different types of interpretations: subtitles or dubs. Some people prefer subtitles because they want to hear exactly what the original staff involved with the production created (in spite of the fact that the subtitles may not be accurate), and that's perfectly fine. Others prefer dubs because they want to feel the emotions of a performance rather than having to give their best guess if the performances are good or not (while still running into the "it might not be accurate" problem), and that's perfectly fine as well.

I don't know much about the Norwegian dubbing industry, so perhaps it's simply a cultural perception in Norway that dubs are necessarily regarded as "reduced" experiences aimed squarely at children who can't read yet, but well...that's just not how it is over here (and I'm sure in many other places as well). Here, there are plenty of dubs written, directed, and acted with adult audiences in mind, where the most important objective of the dub producers is to honor the original creator's intent.

I am not anti-subtitles by any means...it's what the creators originally put out, and we've definitely gotten some horrifically inaccurate dubs over the years. I don't, however, believe for one second that wanting to watch a dub as an adult is, in and of itself, even remotely ridiculous.

[ABED]

Another example i don't know if it is a good one or not but still Charlie Chaplin most of his work is acting with expressions no dialogue at all yet he is one of the finest actors ever.

But that's because you can see his face and his body language. In animation, those things fall to the animator, not the actor.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Another example i don't know if it is a good one or not but still Charlie Chaplin most of his work is acting with expressions no dialogue at all yet he is one of the finest actors ever.

But that's because you can see his face and his body language. In animation, those things fall to the animator, not the actor.

It was a bad example then. The Nakao example works fine though.

- Travis

[DragonDuck]

My preference is mostly to consume any media in its original language, as long as it is possible for me to do so.

For instance, I watched Dragon Ball Z dubbed on TV back when it was airing here, but I was only watching it dubbed because it was the only way for me – at least that I knew of – to watch the series back then. If the channel offered an alternative audio track with Japanese audio and subtitles to go along with it, I would have watched it that way instead. Fortunately, the Danish DBZ dub was very good, and I do sometimes go back and watch it to relive some memories, but when I'm watching DBZ for the story, I watch it in Japanese. Likewise, if a DVD has the original audio track, I choose that. If a movie is being screened in its original language, I order tickets for that. If a TV channel that mostly airs dubs has an alternative audio track with the original audio, I switch it to that. If I have the choice between the original version of a book and its Danish translation – assuming the original version is in a language I know – I choose the original version. The original version is the version the original author has endorsed, and so it is the way it's inteded to be experienced. That's why I go for the original version whenever I have the choice, and although I do enjoy many dubs and translations, I prefer the original with very few exceptions. That and I'm very used to reading subtitles. When you've watched a lot of subtitled media, you learn to focus on both the image and the subtitle (unless the image is 16:9, still trying to get used to that). For me, the actors' performances don't really matter as much as the words they are saying, and even then, I still get a pretty good impression of the actor's performance when reading what's being said while listening to the way it's being said.

However, I have a somewhat odd exception to my rule. If I have the choice between an adaptation of a show and the Danish dub of that adaptation, I choose the Danish dub. To me, English dubs – not original English versions – English dubs of anything sound weird. And the Danish translations of those adaptions are usually pretty accurate without being too literal. Going back to my Dragon Ball Z example, if the channel offered an alternative audio track in French – the language of the dub from which the Danish dub was adapted, I would still watch it in Danish. Another example, Yo-kai Watch is currently airing over here on Cartoon Network, a channel that offers an English audio track, yet I still watch my local dub. Call me weird, and you would be right. It's a rather odd preference.

[ABED]

In the case of DBZ Kai which is a very specific one, I prefer the dub. The dub is high quality, whereas the JPN version of Kai is notably worse than DBZ. I'm one of the few on here that watches both shows whenever I watch them all the way through.

[MetaMoss]

On the whole, I guess I can say I'm pretty dub-sub agnostic when it comes to anime. The only real exceptions to this are when the dubs are egregiously inaccurate. Thus, despite the fact I was raised on it, I will never watch through FUNi's dub of DBZ again, but I very much enjoy watching Kai dubbed. It basically comes down to what's available to me, so I've been doing a lot of subs recently, because the stuff I'm watching either doesn't have a dub yet or has the dub behind a paywall. When I do end up watching a dub produced in recent years, I find basically all of them to be very fine productions that, while not absolutely perfect translations of the original work, do a damn fine job of adapting the series into English.

What's really interesting to me in this discussion, though, is this sort of cultural disconnect that's happening between Adamant and others when talking about this. From what I'm getting in this discussion, the entertainment situation in Norway is very different compared to the United States (which is where I'm assuming the other folks discussing this are residing). While I find Adamant's anti-dub statements to be quite insulting and arrogant, it also seems to me that he (if you're a she, Adamant, please correct me) just has little context of how entertainment is for English-speakers and why dubs are considered over subtitled versions. Looks like us Americans also have little idea of how it is in Norway.

So, Adamant, please allow me to share why dubs are a thing in the United States and other English-speaking countries. I've noticed that you mentioned that a lot of entertainment in Norway is imported and given subtitles. I imagine a good chunk of that stuff is in English, coming from America. America is well-known to be huge in how much we export our culture to others, whether it's through Hollywood movies or pop music, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Norwegian pop culture is simply things that originated in the US. Considering how much we export our entertainment, we really don't have much need to import any of it from other countries. We do import to a degree, but it's often from another English-language country (like the UK). Thus, in the US, all the movies in our theaters and all the TV shows in our living rooms are produced in English (with few exceptions, most notably the Spanish-language offerings for the Hispanic community). If anime or any other sort of non-English production is going to want to appear on our airwaves, it has to be dubbed in English, otherwise people are going to change the channel in droves. I know plenty of folks who've never watched a subtitled thing in their life; we as a culture just haven't been introduced to it.

[Footlong Shoe]

I'm gonna borrow a term from metamoss here and say I'm also "dub-sub agnostic". Although, a lot of it relies on culture. When I'm watching a series like One Piece or Fullmetal Alchemist, there's no real cultural background, so I can watch the dub and have a pretty similar experience. However, when the series actually takes place in the real world, especially in Japan, I usually go straight for the subtitled version. A lot of times there's certain material there that doesn't make sense or is just plain missing in the dub.

There's also an argument for language familiarity. I've been re-watching Assassination Classroom in English, and while the dub is poorly done IMO, I still find myself laughing more than I did reading the manga or watching it in Japanese, mainly because when I'm listening to my own language, I have a better understanding of tone, inflection, and delivery.

Of course, I always make a point of watching a series in its original language. If not first, I always get it done eventually. But to answer the original question of this thread, my preference for Dragon Ball is actually a bit of an exception to my "rules". Although it's a fantasy series in a fictional setting, I still prefer the Japanese version. And this doesn't just apply to the (largely inaccurate) original dubs, the same goes for Kai. I just enjoy the Japanese performances more for some reason.

[8000 Saiyan]

Well, I prefer the Japanese original, but I can tolerate a good dub. I know that this is blasphemy to some but I prefer Fullmetal Alchemist in Japanese.

[Bansho64]

Well, I prefer the Japanese original, but I can tolerate a good dub. I know that this is blasphemy to some but I prefer Fullmetal Alchemist in Japanese.

Both of them?

[8000 Saiyan]

Well, I prefer the Japanese original, but I can tolerate a good dub. I know that this is blasphemy to some but I prefer Fullmetal Alchemist in Japanese.

Both of them?

Both series? Yes, but the dubs are also good, even if I'm not that crazy about Vic Mignogna.

[nuneskev]

Gosh, people from nordic countries always so passionate about bashing dubs.
Most people watch TV just to chill out.... Why it is so hard to understand they aren't uncultured swines when they prefer dubs?

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Well, I prefer the Japanese original, but I can tolerate a good dub. I know that this is blasphemy to some but I prefer Fullmetal Alchemist in Japanese.

Are we talking mainly DB here? & I sort of agree on FMA, the dub is mainly loved as it is, because the show itself is Western. I havent seen it in ages, but while the dub is certainly a keeper, it isnt magically amazing to the exception of almost all other dubs just because the dialogue isnt "cheesy anime dialogue". I'd argue the same thing for Bebop's dub - the show is super-super-Western but it still suffers from the unfortunate manual dubbing tech pre-2001's ProTools. Hellsing, again, super-Western but like Bebop, mainly aimed at Japanese folks & dub budget/tech not very good. Ultimate's is really good tho. I wish I could comment on Baccano, a dub which similar people enjoy, again, not for acting, but setting & the gimmick of accents. Code Geass's is actually really good, production values, casting, etc., included. MGS's, I think is pretty good 2-onwards (when they went union), but very different castings for a few characters - namely Raiden & the 2 Snakes.

Tried to cover all the dubs praised for setting, here.