Death Battle: Goku vs Superman 2

[Puto]

That means he didn't use the Max Power because it would kill Piccolo, and would also kill Kami in the process.

This doesn't work, because he didn't even know that God's life was tied to Piccolo's. None of them did until Goku revealed it in the 23rd Tournament, and Goku only found out because Popo told him during training!

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think the problem with sites like vsbattle is that they tend to rely heavily on their arbitrary tier ranking and generally consider Naruto forums' calculations to be solid as actual evidence.
Their tiers are mostly based on what x character can destroy, but does not take into account context or if it was actually due to the characters own physical capabilities. ( EG: their profile on The Doctor from Dr. Who ranges from an athletic human to someone that can wreck the multiverse because of his time machine, while for comparison a being like Galactus is ranked lower than him***). Also the calculations they use from Naruto forums ( or just about any comic forum) are dodgy pseudoscience based mostly on assumption and measuring pixels from an agreed upon comic panel. It unreliable, and should be taken with a grain of salt even if it is fun to play with numbers. At the very most vsbattle should treat them as a theoretical.

Aside from these issues I think the character summaries are generally ok.

*** This was an extreme example and I do not think anyone on that site actually believes Galactus is weaker/ less capable, however when looking at some of their vs battles they tend pair characters based on tier even if the tier does not reflect considerable advantages or disadvantages either respective character has. EG: two characters could be powerful enough to wreck a house, putting them on the same tier, however one is mortal and wrecks a house with a sledge hammer, where as the other is immortal and can destroy a it with a single finger. The mortal has no business being on the same tier as the immortal or vice versa but they will still be regarded that way due to a lack of context.

The Doctor wouldn't beat Galactus in a fight because that's not his thing. He would outsmart him instead and end up saving whatever planet he was trying to eat.

[neogaiden]

I do not doubt it but, I was not actually trying to make a case for who would win in a confrontation.
My point was how tiers based mainly on one stat, as oppose to all stats of a character, does not represent them properly. Also, I tried to suggest it is bad if the stats are not differentiated between what the character can do on their own ability, and what the character can do with the assistance of tools or equipment. --- Decided I did not need to restate it.

[apex_pretador]

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/ba ... v-1788838/


My debate using namek freeza against new 52 superman. Those interested can give a read in.

[The Monkey King]

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/ba ... v-1788838/


My debate using namek freeza against new 52 superman. Those interested can give a read in.

Man threads like that make me nostalgic, it also reminded me of why I stopped Vs debating, a lot of the time it's nigh impossible to be 'correct' about who your arguing about.

Years ago I wrote my reasons as to why Freeza has large planet level durability, maybe it will help you in your debate lol.

[spoiler]It takes 50 quadrillion megatons of force to destroy an Earth sized planet.

Which DBZ characters could generate this amount of energy in the saiyan saga
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Chapter: 231 (DBZ 37), P4.2/P6.2/P12.5

Context: Vegeta prepares to fire the Gyarikku-Ho

Vegeta: “Dodge this if you can!!!! Even if you save yourself, the Earth will be smashed to pieces!!!!! [ ] You’ll never block my Gyarikku-Ho…!!!! Turn to space dust together with the Earth!!!!!”

Goku: “x4!!!!!” *he uses the Kaio-ken x4*

The Daizenshuu also states saiyan saga Vegeta had enough power to destroy the Earth:
http://web.archive.org/web/201110110425 ... attle#link

Vegeta displays gigantic power capable of destroying the Earth.

saiyan saga Vegeta being able to Earth bust has firm basis as Raditz saga Piccolo was able to vaporize the moon rather casually
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Now Namek has been calced as being a large planet and much harder (42 times as much) to destroy than Earth:

http://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blo ... ers.16051/

And Piccolo confirms that Namek saga Vegeta could've destroyed it
<illegal scans removed by moderator>

Chapter: 306 (DBZ 112), P5.1-2

Context: talking about Vegeta’s planet-destroying attack

Piccolo: “[Freeza] knocked that back with just a kick…”

Kuririn: “That should have been Vegeta’s full power strike…[Freeza]’s too incredible…”

Thus making base Namek saga Vegeta's DC large planet level. And to destroy a large planet one needs to generate quintillions of megatons of force

Since Kaio-Kenx20 Goku >>>>> Namek saga Vegeta. Of course his kamehameha is easily carrying quintillions of megatons of force
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And Frieza held it back, pushed it back and overpowered in with one hand. FYI Pushing strength has a direct corrilation to lifting strength. To perform such a feat one needs, large planet level+ strength

Yup, Frieza has multi-large planet level durability and I'll prove it.

As shown in the link I provided earlier Namek is a large planet.

And in the scans I provided Frieza kicked back Vegeta's planet buster, held back, over powered and tanked Goku's KHH (a more powerful planet buster) which needs large planetary strength as well as durability to accomplish

But that's not all Frieza also tanked Goku's Spirit Bomb:


A move so powerful Goku feared that if Frieza didn't take the majority of it's force it would destroy the planet:

Chapter: 314 (DBZ 120), P13.4-6

Goku: “I-I didn’t want to use this Genki-Dama. It will probably have too much force and squash the entire planet…But if I don’t defeat Freeza now, the universe itself will be in trouble…I don’t know if I’ll be able to pull this off right, but I’ve got to do it…You planets close to Namek! Give me just a little bit of your genki…!”

The Daizenshuu also confirms Goku's Spirit Bomb as a planet buster:

Genki-dama [Spirit Ball]

The Genki-dama is a technique that gathers the energy held by grass and trees, humans and animals, objects and the atmosphere, and then fires it. A Genki-dama gathered from only Kaio's planet had the destructive power to smash a super-fast brick. Going by this, in the case of a Genki-dama made on Earth, if you consider the Earth's size plus the ability to make energy from the sun your ally, it would certainly have the force to destroy a planet. However, it has the weakness that it makes you defenseless until fired.

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031819 ... k_g-i#link

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The only reason it didn't completely obliterate Namek is because Frieza absorbed the vast majority of the force/impact.

But tha's not all Frieza tanked what he stated would be a huge planetary explosion:

Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P10.1-4

Freeza: “Though we’ve avoided having the planet instantly explode, its core has been destroyed…Do you know what that means? Even if left alone, after 5 minutes this time there will definitely be a huge explosion, and Planet Namek will become space dust…”

Goku: “What!?...5 minutes will be enough for me to defeat you and escape in the spaceship I rode here from Earth.”

<illegal scans removed by moderator>

He then came back as a cyborg
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These insane durability feats gives Frieza and all characters superiour to him large planet level+ durability.[/spoiler]

Also your opponent saying Freeza surviving Namek's explosion is an outlier doesn't make sense when Freeza was always confident he'd survive it without too much trouble.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Not to mention Whis stated Freeza survived the explosion of Earth when exhausted and reverted back to his final form.

Also don't forget that Freeza vaporised a planet with 10G in his 1st form

Some have argued the amount of power it takes to do this is small star destroying amounts
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-en ... eta.33326/

Also the reason why Freeza didn't blow up Namek instantly was because he was holding back:

Herms translation Freeza: Chih...!!! Did I suppress my power too much!?
Viz translation Freeza: Damn I held back too much!!!

[Polyphase Avatron]

This thread again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Years ago I wrote my reasons as to why Freeza has large planet level durability, maybe it will help you in your debate lol.

I don't want to go in and delete everything right away since the images are fairly integral to the argument, but I do need you to replace or remove all scanlation images and hotlinks to pirate websites. They are strictly forbidden in the community guidelines. Failure to cooperate will result in an account strike being issued.

[apex_pretador]

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/ba ... v-1788838/


My debate using namek freeza against new 52 superman. Those interested can give a read in.

Man threads like that make me nostalgic, it also reminded me of why I stopped Vs debating, a lot of the time it's nigh impossible to be 'correct' about who your arguing about.

Years ago I wrote my reasons as to why Freeza has large planet level durability, maybe it will help you in your debate lol.

Nope, already completed. That;s why I posted it here now. just after I completed it.

[dbgtFO]

Years ago I wrote my reasons as to why Freeza has large planet level durability, maybe it will help you in your debate lol.

I don't want to go in and delete everything right away since the images are fairly integral to the argument, but I do need you to replace or remove all scanlation images and hotlinks to pirate websites. They are strictly forbidden in the community guidelines. Failure to cooperate will result in an account strike being issued.

I think you or one of the other mods have to do it, due to the new editing rules.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I was made a mod at an awkward time... That completely slipped my mind when I made the post; didn't even consider the time it was posted. Carry on!

[Noah]

I think you or one of the other mods have to do it, due to the new editing rules.

What new editing rules?

[dbgtFO]

I think you or one of the other mods have to do it, due to the new editing rules.

What new editing rules?

You can't edit your post after 2 hours.

[GodVegetto91]

They should use a death battle involving Omni-King. That would sure make for an interesting party xD

[Polyphase Avatron]

They should use a death battle involving Omni-King. That would sure make for an interesting party xD

A guy we know practically nothing about? We haven't even see him attack or use any powers. How could you even animate something like that without that information?

[GodVegetto91]

They should use a death battle involving Omni-King. That would sure make for an interesting party xD

A guy we know practically nothing about? We haven't even see him attack or use any powers. How could you even animate something like that without that information?

This is totally unfair and unreasonable. We know more than enough about him to put him against the higher tiers of dc and marvel. The guy litterally took out 6 universes after getting slightly offended. Furthermore Whis stated that he's capable of destroying litterally "anything" from individual people to entire universes. Even being capable of wiping out a whole multiverse in an "instant" not to mention both Beerus and Champa were scared shitless of him. Now tell my WHY would they be so terrified of someone who isn't really capable of doing all that? He's the greatest person in existence. In fact, NONE stand above him.

[rereboy]

This is totally unfair and unreasonable.

No, it's not. All we know is that he is above Whis and that he can destroy several of the DB universes. We know nothing else at all about his power and about how he would do it, and considering that Beerus and Goku have already been stated to be able to destroy their universe with shockwaves, this is not something that tells us much besides apparently being at an unknown level above Beerus and Goku.

Any debate about that would just be useless speculation.

[Polyphase Avatron]

This is totally unfair and unreasonable.

No, it's not. All we know is that he is above Whis and that he can destroy several of the DB universes. We know nothing else at all about his power and about how he would do it, and considering that Beerus and Goku have already been stated to be able to destroy their universe with shockwaves, this is not something that tells us much besides apparently being at an unknown level above Beerus and Goku.

Any debate about that would just be useless speculation.

My point was more along the lines of how would you even depict a fight with him, since we've never seen him do anything, so how do you draw/animate it? Whis said he never even fights, so how can you show that in a video?

[GodVegetto91]

This is totally unfair and unreasonable.

No, it's not. All we know is that he is above Whis and that he can destroy several of the DB universes. We know nothing else at all about his power and about how he would do it, and considering that Beerus and Goku have already been stated to be able to destroy their universe with shockwaves, this is not something that tells us much besides apparently being at an unknown level above Beerus and Goku.

Any debate about that would just be useless speculation.

My point was more along the lines of how would you even depict a fight with him, since we've never seen him do anything, so how do you draw/animate it? Whis said he never even fights, so how can you show that in a video?

Well you don't need to put him in a fight. Just have him standing there wiping out all of them in an instant xD

[Polyphase Avatron]

By doing what? We don't know what any attack he might have even looks like.

[rereboy]

Well you don't need to put him in a fight. Just have him standing there wiping out all of them in an instant xD

He is never stated to be omnipotent and even if he was, the "higher tiers of DC and marvel" have characters stated to be omnipotent.

Being the strongest in the DB franchise with none surpassing him doesn't automatically mean anything when we compare to other franchises. That would be like saying that since there are no humans stronger than Buffy in the Buffy franchise, there couldn't be any humans stronger than her in marvel and DC when there obviously are.