Shin Budokai 2?

[Slickmasterfunk]

Ok. I'll believe you; you bought it afterall.

And your review might get you on the podcast. ^_^

For reals? I would definitely enjoy that. Motivation to play!

[nathantheguitarist]

Don't say it like I have a say in it. O_o

But on one of the last two podcasts, EX said something about maybe getting someone on to review the game and junk and stuff.

[The S]

The thing I'm most curious about is the story.

[Kaboom]

So... the game has been out for a few days now, apparently. Anyone have it yet?

EDIT:

The poster at the top of this page does.

D'oh! How did I miss that?

[Taku128]

The poster at the top of this page does. How much do PSP games cost anyways, my friends birthday is in a couple weeks, so I might get him this game, depending on what I here of it of course.

[Tyro]

I've bought the game. It has the original posted picture as the cover. However, the poster I saw advertising it was the one with King Piccolo.

[TAS]

I got the game the day it came out and will tell you guys about it and what all it includes for those who are curious.

Contains MASSIVE SPOILERS

I'm gonna put it in a quote to make it look better.

CHARACTERS (Forms)

Goku (Base, Kaioken, SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJ4)
Vegeta (Base, SSJ, SSJ2, Majin)
Teen Gohan (Base, SSJ, SSJ2)
Trunks w/Sword (Base, SSJ)
Future Trunks (Base, SSJ) *
Adult Gohan (Base, SSJ, SSJ2, Mystic/Ultimate/Kai Unlock)
Future Gohan (Base, SSJ, SSJ2, Mystic/Ultimate/Kai Unlock) *
Krillin
Bardock
Broly (Legendary SSJ)
Piccolo (Fuse with Nail)
Frieza (Final Form, 100% Final Form)
Android 18
Cell (Perfect Form, Super Perfect Form)
Dabura
Majin Buu
Super Buu (Base, Gotenks-Absorbed, Gohan-Absored)
Kid Buu
Pikkon
Janemba (Final Form)
Cooler (Base, Final Form, Metal Form)
Gogeta (Super Gogeta)
Gotenks (Base, SSJ, SSJ3)
Vegito (Base, Super Vegito)

(I just took the above list from Wikipedia but made some minor edits)

*There are two versions of Trunks and Gohan. Future Trunks is wearing his Saiyan Armor, has no Sword, and has different moves (both physical and ki based) and Future Gohan is the same way compared to Adult Gohan. At first I was quite annoyed that they made two seperate versions of both characters but given that they made them play differently from their other versions it wasn't so bad.

A couple of characters have new moves (physical, Death Moves, and Ultimates) the biggest difference probaly being Bardock who has a lot more physical moves then he did in B3, has longer combos, doesn't have any of the stiffness he had in B3, and has a new Ultimate.

GAMEPLAY

From the previous Shin Budokai three new (fighting) gameplay mechanics were added.

(The manual for whatever stupid reason doesn't list what they are, so I'm just going to have to give them unofficial names for the time being)

Pursue - After knocking your opponent away with a powerful physical attack you can pursue them by quickly pressing the R Trigger. Your character will dart towards the opponent. You can click the Trigger up to 3 times and you will pursue them each time (very similar to the teleport attacks from B3) and the final hit will be a Ki based move like for Goku, it's the Kamehame (this feature is basicly Dragon Rush from B3 but in real time)

Aura Defense - (Hold X and Press and hold R Trigger) Every character stands straigh up and charges with a huge aura burst around them that protects them from virtualy all types of attacks. It drains Ki very quickly. The AI abuses the hell out of this move though and it can get extremely annoying as they always use it perfectly and never drain all their Ki with it.

Aura Burst Charge - (L and R together, can only be used once per match) Works different for every character. For most is powers up strength/damage in exchange for all your ki being depleted. Other characters are able to regenerate health with it (which can be quite annoying when battling the AI as you'll often get them down to a single health bar only to have them regenerate another bar of health)

ANOTHER ROAD (Story Mode)

Be warned the following will spoil basicly the entire story

The overworld gameplay itself is similar to the story modes of B3 and BT2 and you build up character stats with cards.

The storyline is all about how Trunks deals with the thread of Babidi and his minions in the future timeline, but damn do they go about it quite moronicly at times. It does have some good ideas, but the bad is outweighed by the good (much like the story in the first SB game)

The way that a number of dead characters "come back" in the future timeline is that once Babidi shows up with Dabura and starts wrecking everything Trunks goes to try and stop them. Babidi then scans Trunks' memories and makes evil puppets of people from his memories (probaly the dumbest part about the story and it was what they used to bring back characters like Cell who logicaly would have no way to be in the story) and then Trunks travels back to the current/present timeline (post Buu Saga) and gets the Z Warriors to aid him in the future timeline (he brings them all to the future in a new bigger time matchine Bulma built) so then you have two versions of a lot of characters (Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc) throughout the story which seems completely stupid.

Trunks and the Z Warriors eventually decide to go to Namek and bring Dende back to Earth so that he can create a new set of dragonballs on Earth so that Shen Long can fix all the destruction that Babidi and his minions have called (but they don't bother trying to bring back any of the dead Z Warriors from the Future timeline with either the Namekian DBs or the new Earth ones, and essentialy let both sets go to waste througout the entire storyline)

At a later point in the story Trunks and the Z Warriors travel to heaven where they find Bardock, Pikkon, and Future Gohan (who for whatever reason is completely insane and fights #18 in his head everyday, but not #17 mind you as he's not in the game at all, and even though he's been dead/insane for years all it takes is hearing Trunks' name to snap him out of it) the Z Warriors then have Future Gohan train with the Elder Kai to make him more powerful (he's able to achieve the same Mystic form that the Buu Saga Gohan did, and must have achieved SS2 while in heaven fighting as he's got that form too) and at the end of the training Elder Kai gave up his life to Future Gohan so that he could live and help Trunks on Earth (and stays revived through the rest of the story) before all of this though the Z Warriors fought with Future Trunks, Bardock, and Pikkon, in heaven. The Pikkon part was nothing he fights them, thinks they're worthy, and joins them. The Bardock part gets really confusing as the characters can't tell who's who and you have different versions of different characters, and/or multiple versions of the same character around talking back and fourth, but anyways Bardock and Goku eventualy relize they're father and son, and Bardock joins up with them, but only is allowed to be alive on Earth for one day (same goes for Pikkon)

With all the powerful warriors around on Earth now Babidi is easily able to ressurect Buu. Babidi was also able to bring Cooler and Broly (from the Future timeline) under his control too (of course neither of them not having made their way to Earth yet in this future timeline makes no sense)

In the end Babidi and Buu are of course defeated (Goku kills Buu again the exact same way again in one ending, while in another everybody teams up to fire one giant super kamehameha at him and kill him)

So basicly the story does good at setting things up, but then what happens after the set ups is all done poorly. They also had to figure out ways of incorporating all the characters from the first SB game into the story as every character from SB1 came back, and this shows in a lot of places in poor excecution, like with the whole memory/puppet thing, and even with the cast they had to work with it still could've been done a lot better.

To me it makes no sense that they just didn't cover all the events we've seen Trunks in (TV Special, Series, Movies) and then continued off from there rather then making the entire story set after he's defeated the Andriods in the future. Another dumb thing (as I mentioned earlier) was they make practicaly no use of the dragonballs, and/or could've gone about better ways of reviving or using certain characters. For instance why not have had Future Goku and Future Vegeta become Vegetto then have one of the kai's give there life to have Vegetto alive on Earth? Like you/we know/knew that Goku and Vegeta couldn't stay fused forever in the past/present, but there's no reason to not have their future dead versions not to. It would've been a better way to go about using what they had on offer in terms of story and characters (as Vegetto is in the game) and not having #17 around seemed completely stupid given the timeline the game was based in (I don't think he's even mentioned at all)

The story offers various paths to play through which is nice and adds replay vaule (since you can't unlock everything with one play through) and after you beat it you're able to go back through the story with any characters you want like Janemba, Bardock, etc, but dialogue is no different just who you fly around and play as. It can also be frustratiningly difficult at times too given all the multi-tasking and the ridiculous nature of the AI and difficulty (which you can't adjust)

The game itself overall is a poor sequel to SB1 and didn't add much to what SB1 already had. If SB1 hadn't existed and this game had come out originaly instead of SB1, it wouldn't be bad at all (aside from the below and story problems)

It also has all the exact same problems SB1 had.

- Small Cast
- No Alternate Costumes
- Long Load Times
- Awkward Story Mode (good idea, poor excecution)
- It lacks a lot despite all the extra disc space (or rather they're not using all the space on the UMD)
- Can only use one transformation while playing (example if you pick SS3 Goku you can only use Base Goku and SS3, with nothing inbetween)

[Kaboom]

Nice, TAS. Thanks for the review.

I'm still getting it in spite of its flaws, since it's still better than the first, and is the closest I'll ever get to owning Budokai 3.

Does SSj4 play into the story in any way, or was that just a little bonus? Kinda sucks that Goku's the only one with it, though. No SSj4 Vegeta or Gogeta... ah, well.

[TAS]

Nice, TAS. Thanks for the review.

I'm still getting it in spite of its flaws, since it's still better than the first, and is the closest I'll ever get to owning Budokai 3.

I'd defenitly suggest it for anyone who hasn't owned the first one, but it's a little hard to tell someone they should spend $40 on it when it's barely any different. Don't get me wrong, I really like it, I just wished it was what came out instead of the original or that they would've fixed the problems SB1 had.

It's kinda like how nice it could've/would've been had Budokai 1 gone straight to Budokai 3, is what I'm saying.

Although hopefully these SB games are just a testing ground for Budokai 4, although with the way that each of the SB games becomes more and more like BT they might just combine both franchises in a sense or make Budokai free roaming (as that's really the biggest thing that seperates both series)

Does SSj4 play into the story in any way, or was that just a little bonus?

Just seems to be a bonus. I haven't done all the alt paths yet, but I've unlocked SS4.

I found out it was in the game (from GameFAQs' message board) after playing the first Chapter in Another Road and began wondering how they were going to work it into the story given the Goku in it is Goku right after the Buu Saga (but not End of Z Goku, that seemed to be a ways off still from this point as Goten and Trunks were still kids) so it would've been odd seeing him take such a huge leap in power when he just achieved SS3 not too long ago, but then again this is a What If? game of sorts. Maybe they could've had him absorb the Super Spirit Bomb into himself or something and use all of that power to reach that next transformation stage, ie SS4.

[Taku128]

Do Goku's pants change colors or do they stay orange when he transforms into a SSJ4? Also, does Adult Gohan really not have a base form, or did you just make a mistake?

[TAS]

Do Goku's pants change colors or do they stay orange when he transforms into a SSJ4?

No, Goku's SS4 look had never been dependent on what he's wearing.

For instance in GT a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that SS4 Goku is wearing what kid Goku is wearing, but if you notice, kid Goku's arm bands are pink while SS4's are blue. SS4 Goku also has blue stockings/socks (or whatever) too. The shades of yellow between both pants are different too, SS4's are darker or more of a golden color, while Goku's are bright yellow.

Of course that's not the only baffling apsect of SS4 in terms of what GT presents. It's something like Another Road in this game, it's a good idea/concept (Ozaru + Super Saiyan) just excecuted poorly.

Also, does Adult Gohan really not have a base form, or did you just make a mistake?

The Wiki article I copied it from has the mistake, I aslo haven't unlocked "Z-Sword" Gohan yet and am wondering if that's a mistake too, because it doesn't seem like it be a transformation stage (the Mystic form has a new move where he can use the Z-Sword though)

[Taku128]

Do Goku's pants change colors or do they stay orange when he transforms into a SSJ4?

No, Goku's SS4 look had never been dependent on what he's wearing.

For instance in GT a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that SS4 Goku is wearing what kid Goku is wearing, but if you notice, kid Goku's arm bands are pink while SS4's are blue. SS4 Goku also has blue stockings/socks (or whatever) too. The shades of yellow between both pants are different too, SS4's are darker or more of a golden color, while Goku's are bright yellow.

Of course that's not the only baffling apsect of SS4 in terms of what GT presents. It's something like Another Road in this game, it's a good idea/concept (Ozaru + Super Saiyan) just excecuted poorly.

Also, does Adult Gohan really not have a base form, or did you just make a mistake?

The Wiki article I copied it from has the mistake, I aslo haven't unlocked "Z-Sword" Gohan yet and am wondering if that's a mistake too, because it doesn't seem like it be a transformation stage (the Mystic form has a new move where he can use the Z-Sword though)

I thought they might have Goku's pants stay orange, since on the cover of a special box for the Budokai games to go in he has orange pants. So does Adult Gohan have a base form, or is wiki wrong?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found a video showing all the characters and forms.

[TAS]

I thought they might have Goku's pants stay orange, since on the cover of a special box for the Budokai games to go in he has orange pants.

Link me a picture, I've never seen it.

But from a design standpoint whoever did the final SS4 designs made it so that their clothes change when they themselves change, because if they did it the way the other stages work (where the clothes remain) Goku and Vegeta would still have their tops on which would clash with the overall SS4 design and have a really odd color scheme, ie you'd have Goku with an orange gi top that covers most of his chest (so you wouldn't really be able to tell what exactly the top half his body looked like with the fur on it) and the orange of his gi would clash badly against his pink/red fur.

To me it's better that their clothes change, however the clothes (or pants and shoes in this case really) should've been distinctively different from what they were already wearing so people wouldn't get confused, and it should be the same clothing regardless of who it is, kinda like how the Gogeta clothing works, it's always the same outfit regardless of who fuses together.

[Kaboom]

I still think that Saiyans gain Kami-esque magic capabilities in SSj4, and use it to give themselves nifty new outfits when they transform (or at least pants, when transitioning from Oozaru from the first time)

Anyway... nice roster, even if a lot of 'em really have no place in a Future Trunks-centered story. Looking forward to playing it.

EDIT: By the way, are the Japanese voices an option?

[TAS]

I still think that Saiyans gain Kami-esque magic capabilities in SSj4, and use it to give themselves nifty new outfits when they transform

Yes, though if they were ever to back and redo it or do a DB Redux, I'd suggest giving all SS4 chars the same pants (though maybe the colors could be different for each character) to make it a bit more obvious what happens, and/or explain what exactly happens, and from a video game stand point you could still have the GT designs (or what we know now) as alternates.

EDIT: By the way, are the Japanese voices an option?

Yes and there is also voiced dialogue in a couple of places too (mostly at the beggining of chapters)

[Taku128]

I thought they might have Goku's pants stay orange, since on the cover of a special box for the Budokai games to go in he has orange pants.

Link me a picture, I've never seen it.

I think it looks awesome with orange pants.

[TAS]

Thanks for the pic, that's very cool to see.

I think it looks awesome with orange pants.

Personaly I don't.

I myself am really big into character designs and have to say that if they're going to change a character's physical form that much in terms of SS4 or whatever, there's really no need to keep the same anything else. For instance what design aspect of Goku carries over from his other forms to SS4? None really that I can see, his hair is different, his eyes are different, face is drawn different, etc, etc, so it seems from a design perspective they wanted every part of him to be different.

I'd also have to say that the orange doesn't go well with the pink/red fur. Now if his fur were brown (or some other color not close to red) it be fine/great.

I myself would probaly make his pants blue (the same color of the belt, arm bands, and stockings) however I wouldn't know what color to make the belt then (or maybe the belt and pants can be blue like it is with Vegetto)

[The S]

Although there are some cheesy parts to it, that's a pretty cool story. I can just imagine it...

KAIOU: TRUNKS! You have created a Time Paradox!

[TAS]

Although there are some cheesy parts to it, that's a pretty cool story. I can just imagine it...

KAIOU: TRUNKS! You have created a Time Paradox!

Note that I just listed the main plot points, there's a lot of other dumb elements to it.

To me it's strong points or things that were nice to see were...

- Revining Future Gohan.
- Having Goku finally meeting his father (Bardock)
- Going to Namek and bringing Dende back to Earth to create a new set of Dragonballs.
- They came up with a perfectly good way to get enough energy to summon Buu (by basicly using the characters from the present/past reality)

...it was essentialy like GT in that it had good ideas just excecuted poorly.

[Prince Vegeta]

My question for you is:Does Gohan have Special beam canon (i think it's called Makankosappo in Japanese)