Sure, in the anime he puts up a good fight, but in the manga he doesn't have any feats to justify him being so strong.
The way I see it he would only need a gap of a little over 2x to humiliate Buu like he did as an SSJ so his base form could very well be around Perfect Cell level.
Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
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TheUltimateNinja
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DBZ Macky
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
It's because Vegetto is SO far and above everything in Dragon Ball Z and that infinity/50 is still infinity.
If the anime shows that Vegetto is able to humiliate Buu and the manga does not contradict that, then I'm willing to accept that Base Vegetto is above Buuhan.
All in all, it's open to interpretation, but I usually view the anime as complementary material to the manga, so unless contradicted, I'll include those scenes from the anime into my personal headcannon.
Besides, I have Base Vegetto as EQUAL to Buuhan battle power wise, Not many times stronger.
If the anime shows that Vegetto is able to humiliate Buu and the manga does not contradict that, then I'm willing to accept that Base Vegetto is above Buuhan.
All in all, it's open to interpretation, but I usually view the anime as complementary material to the manga, so unless contradicted, I'll include those scenes from the anime into my personal headcannon.
Besides, I have Base Vegetto as EQUAL to Buuhan battle power wise, Not many times stronger.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're in the DB community, it's always a power level thread to someone.
Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
Because of the anime. However, Base Vegito doesn't fight at all in the manga, and he needs to go Super Saiyan in order to block a blast from Gohan-Boo, so i doubt he is anywhere near him. Not to mention the anime is non-canon.
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
Vegetto as a Super Saiyan can't be all that much stronger than Buuhan if he still feels compelled to block and avoid attacks rather than endure them with no discernible effect created à la Nail's attack on Freeza in order to foster an even more dire sense of futility in Buu. Personally, I'm not even completely certain of SSJ Vegetto being more than double Buuhan's power. Some of the panels depicting Vegetto as he's attacking do portray him with indications of serious exertion. In fact, I would estimate the gap to be closer with the one that existed between Vegeta and Recoome. This would situate Base Vegetto far below Mystic Gohan and even Super Buu. He's somewhere between SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks, in my opinion.
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TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
The thing is, that would mean even accounting for the rival boost Potara fusion has an absolutely absurd multiplier since Vegetto would be several times stronger than even SSJ3 Goku, in which case Kibitoshin should be stronger than Pure Buu even without rival boostDBZ Macky wrote:It's because Vegetto is SO far and above everything in Dragon Ball Z and that infinity/50 is still infinity.
If the anime shows that Vegetto is able to humiliate Buu and the manga does not contradict that, then I'm willing to accept that Base Vegetto is above Buuhan.
All in all, it's open to interpretation, but I usually view the anime as complementary material to the manga, so unless contradicted, I'll include those scenes from the anime into my personal headcannon.
Besides, I have Base Vegetto as EQUAL to Buuhan battle power wise, Not many times stronger.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
The reason for that is because Rou Kaioshin said that a Potara fusion of Goku & Gohan would be able to defeat Gotenks Boo without Super Saiyan because of the Potara's power, and when Goku & Vegeta merged, he said that their fusion is the strongest not only because of the Potara, but also because they are rivals (in the sense that they are equals in power, unlike Goku & Ultimate Gohan, Goku & Mr Satan, and Kaioshin & Kibito, who had huge difference in their powers respectively), implying that base Vegetto is stronger than base Kuhan would have been, and thus stronger than Gotenks Boo. The fact that he had to turn Super Saiyan against Gohan Boo, who was even stronger than Gotenks Boo, shows that base Vegetto is at most stronger than Gohan Boo, but not massively stronger, and he needed to be massively stronger than Boo for his plan to work & free his sons and Piccolo.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
I don't think he's good enough to fight Boohan, at absolute most, I'd have him tied with SS Gotenks. This idea of him being a match majoritively, but not exclusively, comes from the anime.
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TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
But Gohan is a special case since he had his potential unlocked, so obviously they wouldn't need Super Saiyan since Gohan already surpasses SSJ3 without needing to transform.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The reason for that is because Rou Kaioshin said that a Potara fusion of Goku & Gohan would be able to defeat Gotenks Boo without Super Saiyan because of the Potara's power, and when Goku & Vegeta merged, he said that their fusion is the strongest not only because of the Potara, but also because they are rivals (in the sense that they are equals in power, unlike Goku & Ultimate Gohan, Goku & Mr Satan, and Kaioshin & Kibito, who had huge difference in their powers respectively), implying that base Vegetto is stronger than base Kuhan would have been, and thus stronger than Gotenks Boo. The fact that he had to turn Super Saiyan against Gohan Boo, who was even stronger than Gotenks Boo, shows that base Vegetto is at most stronger than Gohan Boo, but not massively stronger, and he needed to be massively stronger than Boo for his plan to work & free his sons and Piccolo.
Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
how does the multiplier work for potara?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
According to Rou Kaioshin, Kuhan would have been strong enough because of the Potara power, not because of Gohan's power, and then he implied that Vegetto is stronger than Kuhan would have been.TheUltimateNinja wrote:But Gohan is a special case since he had his potential unlocked, so obviously they wouldn't need Super Saiyan since Gohan already surpasses SSJ3 without needing to transform.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The reason for that is because Rou Kaioshin said that a Potara fusion of Goku & Gohan would be able to defeat Gotenks Boo without Super Saiyan because of the Potara's power, and when Goku & Vegeta merged, he said that their fusion is the strongest not only because of the Potara, but also because they are rivals (in the sense that they are equals in power, unlike Goku & Ultimate Gohan, Goku & Mr Satan, and Kaioshin & Kibito, who had huge difference in their powers respectively), implying that base Vegetto is stronger than base Kuhan would have been, and thus stronger than Gotenks Boo. The fact that he had to turn Super Saiyan against Gohan Boo, who was even stronger than Gotenks Boo, shows that base Vegetto is at most stronger than Gohan Boo, but not massively stronger, and he needed to be massively stronger than Boo for his plan to work & free his sons and Piccolo.
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”
Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Gohan-absorbed Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”
It depends how strong the two fighters are. The closer they are in power, the greater the increase.Tsufuru wrote:how does the multiplier work for potara?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheUltimateNinja
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
I suppose we can't get a definitive answer unless official sources explain the mechanics of the Potara better, because unless the rival boost is absurdly huge, it would seem Gohan's power unlock is not taken into account since Kuhan should turn out much stronger than Vegetto even with a much lower multiplier simply due to the huge gap in power between Vegeta and Gohan.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:According to Rou Kaioshin, Kuhan would have been strong enough because of the Potara power, not because of Gohan's power, and then he implied that Vegetto is stronger than Kuhan would have been.TheUltimateNinja wrote:But Gohan is a special case since he had his potential unlocked, so obviously they wouldn't need Super Saiyan since Gohan already surpasses SSJ3 without needing to transform.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The reason for that is because Rou Kaioshin said that a Potara fusion of Goku & Gohan would be able to defeat Gotenks Boo without Super Saiyan because of the Potara's power, and when Goku & Vegeta merged, he said that their fusion is the strongest not only because of the Potara, but also because they are rivals (in the sense that they are equals in power, unlike Goku & Ultimate Gohan, Goku & Mr Satan, and Kaioshin & Kibito, who had huge difference in their powers respectively), implying that base Vegetto is stronger than base Kuhan would have been, and thus stronger than Gotenks Boo. The fact that he had to turn Super Saiyan against Gohan Boo, who was even stronger than Gotenks Boo, shows that base Vegetto is at most stronger than Gohan Boo, but not massively stronger, and he needed to be massively stronger than Boo for his plan to work & free his sons and Piccolo.
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”
Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Gohan-absorbed Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”
It depends how strong the two fighters are. The closer they are in power, the greater the increase.Tsufuru wrote:how does the multiplier work for potara?
Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
it cant be vegeta x goku cuz buuhan would not even able to scratch base vegetto.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
Gohan's power is taken into account, but Goku doesn't have his dormant powers drawn out like Gohan, and Goku is many hundreds of times weaker than Gohan. Goku & Vegeta though, there is barely a difference in their powers.TheUltimateNinja wrote:I suppose we can't get a definitive answer unless official sources explain the mechanics of the Potara better, because unless the rival boost is absurdly huge, it would seem Gohan's power unlock is not taken into account since Kuhan should turn out much stronger than Vegetto even with a much lower multiplier simply due to the huge gap in power between Vegeta and Gohan.
Look at Kaioshin & Kibito. Kaioshin is above the Super Saiyans (he realized that mortals had surpassed him only after he saw SS2), while Kibito is weaker than the base Saiyans, making him dozens of times weaker than Kaioshin, so Kibitoshin ends up being still weaker than the SS2s. Goku & Mr. Satan, Goku is millions of times stronger than Satan, so Goku predicted that Mr. Satan would barely make him any stronger.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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DBZ Macky
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
I wouldn't take Vegetto= Vegeta X Kakarotto as fact. Besides, the statement is that the potara fusion is CLOSER to multiplication than it is to addition. So Vegetto could be anywhere from Vegeta + Kakarotto to Vegeta X Kakarotto.Tsufuru wrote:it cant be vegeta x goku cuz buuhan would not even able to scratch base vegetto.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're in the DB community, it's always a power level thread to someone.
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apex_pretador
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Re: Why is it assumed that Base Vegetto is a match for Buu?
1. It is because Gohan is already around half the power of buutenks. So, addung base goku with potara will be enough to take out a fighter twice as strong as him. The power of potara is that amazing.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:According to Rou Kaioshin, Kuhan would have been strong enough because of the Potara power, not because of Gohan's power, and then he implied that Vegetto is stronger than Kuhan would have been.
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”
Chapter: 504 (DBZ 310), P9.2-3
Context: as Vegetto beats up on Gohan-absorbed Boo
Kaioshin-Kibito: “H-he’s strong!!! Majin Boo there is helpless!!! To think that merging with the Potara would be this incredible…!!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Idiot, it’s because it was those two that they were able to go so far. Two of the top 3 masters in both the living world and afterlife have merged, after all. What’s more, two rivals have joined together. That’s definitely strongest.”
2. He is not comparing Super Vegetto to a hypothetical goku-han. He is DEFINITELY not comparing base vegetto to hypothetical goku-han. He is saying that this is the most powerful being. That's it.
A hypothetical buutenks-buuhan potara fusion might be above SS vegetto, but Old kaioshin is not going on to ponder about hypothetical scenarios to compare the power of SS vegetto.