Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[HeroR]

What makes you think the world army could even tickle Kakarot?

1) Because Goku has been damaged before with standard weaponry, along with battle jackets, and it wasn't until he's trained with Master Roshi and Korin that he had the strength and stamina to wipe out an army. Even if you don't believe training is necessary, he would still have to gain enough strength and stamina to do so, and that's going to take time to develop. Time, that he may not have if he reveals himself to the world early.

And that is assuming if Kakarot left any survivors who can identify what he looks like.

Actually the other way around. It's assumming that Kakarot bit more off than he could chew against a martial artist, and they were unable to keep him from escaping.

Most of that came from the Red Ribbon Army who had far better weapons than the World Army. Even then, only White's energy gun knocked Goku down and it was because he allowed it. Black was also only allowed to get into his Battle Jacket because Goku told him to go away instead of outright killing him. Finally, Goku was weak in the beginning of the series because he spent most of his life in the mountains and not developing his skills outside of what his grandfather taught him. He was a big fish in a small pond and he didn't really grow.

That's assuming that Kakarot meets that certain martial artists before he's ready. Even at the beginning of Dragon Ball, there weren't too many people who could kill Goku.

[FoolsGil]

What makes you think the world army could even tickle Kakarot?

1) Because Goku has been damaged before with standard weaponry, along with battle jackets, and it wasn't until he's trained with Master Roshi and Korin that he had the strength and stamina to wipe out an army. Even if you don't believe training is necessary, he would still have to gain enough strength and stamina to do so, and that's going to take time to develop. Time, that he may not have if he reveals himself to the world early.

And that is assuming if Kakarot left any survivors who can identify what he looks like.

Actually the other way around. It's assumming that Kakarot bit more off than he could chew against a martial artist, and they were unable to keep him from escaping.

Most of that came from the Red Ribbon Army who had far better weapons than the World Army. Even then, only White's energy gun knocked Goku down and it was because he allowed it. Black was also only allowed to get into his Battle Jacket because Goku told him to go away instead of outright killing him. Finally, Goku was weak in the beginning of the series because he spent most of his life in the mountains and not developing his skills outside of what his grandfather taught him. He was a big fish in a small pond and he didn't really grow.

That's assuming that Kakarot meets that certain martial artists before he's ready. Even at the beginning of Dragon Ball, there weren't too many people who could kill Goku.

Well, if we're assuming that Kakarot is going to destroying the world like he's been ordered to, he's going to be that big fish in a small pond, gaining the attention of armies and martial artists that he would not have met otherwise.

[HeroR]

Well, if we're assuming that Kakarot is going to destroying the world like he's been ordered to, he's going to be that big fish in a small pond, gaining the attention of armies and martial artists that he would not have met otherwise.

That's assuming the world has its act together. The humans in the present timeline are laughably incompetent.

And it isn't like martial artists have a bat signal to call each other. They certainly didn't when Cell was sucking up cities or when Piccolo's kids murdered martial artists.

[FoolsGil]

Well, if we're assuming that Kakarot is going to destroying the world like he's been ordered to, he's going to be that big fish in a small pond, gaining the attention of armies and martial artists that he would not have met otherwise.

That's assuming the world has its act together. The humans in the present timeline are laughably incompetent.

And it isn't like martial artists have a bat signal to call each other. They certainly didn't when Cell was sucking up cities or when Piccolo's kids murdered martial artists.

If Earth would fall, it would be because of incompetence. I wouldn't like it in a story, hence "idiot balls" but I will give you that, Earth population, is kind of dumb. "Satan is the number one champion you say? Of course he is!" Wouldn't mind seeing that trainwreck, Mark going after Kakarot. That's a U13 special I would pay money to see.

[Gog]

Kakarot can easily train and used his Great Ape form when he runs into people stronger than him. You can't really assumed that Kakarot was doomed from get go based on events you can only guess. Maybe Kakarot ran into those powerful people, was nearly killed, but he survived, got stronger from the near death experience, came back and killed them. That's basically what Goku did. King Piccolo isn't a factor because he was only unsealed because Goku kept stopping Pilaf's plan.

Why would Kakarot's training regimen be better than Master Roshi's or Korin's? Months pass without a full moon, what if he's caught on a day without one, or at worst, someone figures out that the moon's the problem and blows it up? And in all the fights Goku and Vegeta were in, the only time they ever ran away from a fight was against Kid Buu. Win or lose, Kakarot is most likely not to run from a fight, and even if he did, would that mean he would win next time? Survivors would pass the information to everyone. Now Kakarot's got armies and more martial artists after him. It's not that simple.

Why do you think training with Roshi is the only way for Kakarot to get stronger? Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz didn't train with Roshi. They got into life and death battles, survived, and got stronger.

Goku nearly died several times despite all his training and he was survived because the plot demanded. His heart randomly restarted after King Piccolo checked his pulse. So why can't Kakarot by that same logic have dumb luck. Because he's a villain?

Also, what army? Without Goku around most of the cast wouldn't even meet each other to pass on information.

No, because that was how Goku got strong in the first place, if Goku is evil, then they won't bother training him, and he would die against the superior trained martial artists. Goku being good is how he got so strong in the first place, the fact that he can kill master Roshi, can kill tao pai pai, kill anyone is ridiculous in on itself

[rereboy]

No, because that was how Goku got strong in the first place, if Goku is evil, then they won't bother training him, and he would die against the superior trained martial artists. Goku being good is how he got so strong in the first place, the fact that he can kill master Roshi, can kill tao pai pai, kill anyone is ridiculous in on itself

Dude, it's so easy to imagine an scenario in which Kakarotto wins... He would just have to live on the wild till he is an adult. As long as he emerged from there as an adult ready to take over the world with a power level around King Piccolo's or better from his constant wild natural training, he most likely would have a very easy time taking over everything.

But, even disregarding that, the fact is that it's impossible to tell how things might shape up once we change an important detail. Think of your own life.... Change an important aspect of your childhood and who knows what could happen? Your life and the life of people who contact you could be almost the same, or it could be drastically different... Heck, even just changing the time in which you decide to play the lottery could change things drastically by making you win the lottery... It's impossible to know what can happen.

[Gog]

No, because that was how Goku got strong in the first place, if Goku is evil, then they won't bother training him, and he would die against the superior trained martial artists. Goku being good is how he got so strong in the first place, the fact that he can kill master Roshi, can kill tao pai pai, kill anyone is ridiculous in on itself

Dude, it's so easy to imagine an scenario in which Kakarotto wins... He would just have to live on the wild till he is an adult. As long as he emerged with a power level around King Piccolo or better from his constantlt wild natural training, he most likely would have a very easy time taking over everything.

But, even disregarding that, the fact is that it's impossible to tell how things might shape up once we change a little detail. Think of your own life. Change an important aspect of your childhood and who knows what could happen?

No without Grandpa Gohan's training, without master roshi's training, without the super holy water, without the ultra divine water, and without Kami's training. I would be insulted if Kakarotto ended up as one tenth as strong as DB goku, that also doesn't account for the fact that if he goes Ozarou and start's killing people then either, any of these fighters would kill him.
Kakarotto is poorly written.

[rereboy]

No without Granda Gohan's training, without master roshi's training, without the super holy water, without the ultra divine water, and without Kami's training. I would be insulted if Kakarotto ended up as one tenth as strong as DB goku, that also doesn't account for the fact that if he goes Ozarou and start's killing people then either, any of these fighters would kill him

And Goku, as an adult, was much stronger than King Piccolo. Not seeing the issue.

[Gog]

No without Granda Gohan's training, without master roshi's training, without the super holy water, without the ultra divine water, and without Kami's training. I would be insulted if Kakarotto ended up as one tenth as strong as DB goku, that also doesn't account for the fact that if he goes Ozarou and start's killing people then either, any of these fighters would kill him

And Goku, as an adult, was much stronger than King Piccolo. Not seeing the issue.

I'm, I'm speechless. Are you actually listening to my words? The only reason why Goku was as strong as he was, was because of all the mentors over the years, because of all the power ups he received over the years, but most importantly it was because he bumped his head.

Honestly Universe 13 is poor writing

[rereboy]

No without Granda Gohan's training, without master roshi's training, without the super holy water, without the ultra divine water, and without Kami's training. I would be insulted if Kakarotto ended up as one tenth as strong as DB goku, that also doesn't account for the fact that if he goes Ozarou and start's killing people then either, any of these fighters would kill him

And Goku, as an adult, was much stronger than King Piccolo. Not seeing the issue.

I'm, I'm speechless. Are you actually listening to my words? The only reason why Goku was as strong as he was, was because of all the mentors over the years, because of all the power ups he received over the years, but most importantly it was because he bumped his head.

Honestly Universe 13 is poor writing

I listened to your words and responded. Are you listening to mine...?

1- To conquer Earth, Kakaroto would not need to be as powerful as adult Goku.

2- Once you change an important detail of the past, everything starts changing and the different events start to create other, different, unpredictable, events. You are acting like you know exactly what would happen when you probably don't even know what you happen regarding your own life if an important parts of your childhood was changed.

[Fionordequester]

I am actually referring to people like Toby and Orochimaru who are painted sympathetically, despite all the absolute BS they pulled. Orochimaru is the most annoying since he's still alive years later doing his experiences and Toby died with Naruto proclaiming him as cool. This is despite him being responsible for most of the events in the series that led to hundreds of deaths, all because his love interest died.

...OOOH, crud. I meant to say Tobi! I totally forgot about the fact that there were two Madara's, and that one of them was actually called Tobi...ok then, I meant that TOBI was the guy Naruto was telling to be true to himself. Anyways, yeah, he WAS responsible for much of what happened...but the damage was done by the time he had his sympathetic moment, and everyone was fighting a literal GAUNTLET of world destroyers. The best thing to do there isn't to focus on what he's done; the best thing there is to focus on how he's going to make amends, and how he's going to live moving forward. And it seemed like he was well on his way to becoming a good guy right until he got killed...

...and then came back...and got killed again...and then came BACK again...and then DIED again (for real this time). Or at least, I THINK that's what happened? Not gonna lie, I had a hard time keeping track of everything that was going on in the climax; maybe that's the games fault, but that whole gauntlet seemed really chaotic. So I don't know if Tobi actually DID die three times, but that's fricken hilarious if he did

Finally, there is also this underline theme that it wasn't all the Uchiha Clan's fault for being corrupted and prone to evil. That they were cursed by their eyes, their intense love, and being manipulated by Kaguya. Which comes off as whitewashing.

Huh...I never picked up on that plot point. Maybe it's just the way the Ultimate Ninja Storm games presented them, but it seemed to me like they were all just a bunch of jerks (with the possible exception of Itachi's mom and dad).

[Gog]

And Goku, as an adult, was much stronger than King Piccolo. Not seeing the issue.

I'm, I'm speechless. Are you actually listening to my words? The only reason why Goku was as strong as he was, was because of all the mentors over the years, because of all the power ups he received over the years, but most importantly it was because he bumped his head.

Honestly Universe 13 is poor writing

I listened to your words and responded. Are you listening to mine...?

1- To conquer Earth, Kakaroto would not need to be as powerful as adult Goku.

2- Once you change an important detail of the past, everything starts changing and the different events start to create other, different, unpredictable, events. You are acting like you know exactly what would happen when you probably don't even know what you happen regarding your own life if an important parts of your childhood was changed.

I did, your just trying to justify poor writing.

1-He totally would need to be as powerful as adult Db Goku, or at least one tenth, because that would be how strong he would be, because all the training methods would be unavailable to him, besides being dead and all.

2-So your saying, multiverse has infinite probabilities, so this could technically come about, don't think about it, even though, by all rights Kakarot would have died, against the weaker of fighters, he would have died against the stronger of fighters. It doesn't excuse lazy writing. Kakarot should not be alive, Kakarot should be dead.

[rereboy]

I did, your just trying to justify poor writing.

Yeah? Is that why I commented a few posts ago that DBM hasn't explained exactly why Kakarotto is the way he is and even offered several ways in which they could justify it and improve it? Or maybe you just didn't pay enough attention to what I'm saying?

He totally would need to be as powerful as adult Db Goku,

Since adult Goku is much stronger than King Piccolo, and since around King Piccolo's level would be more than enough to take over the world... no.

or at least one tenth, because that would be how strong he would be, because all the training methods would be unavailable to him, besides being dead and all.

Like I said, much weaker than adult Goku, still powerful enough as an adult to take over. He could have less effective ways to get stronger but he could still have several ways to get stronger. No actual problem at all.

2-So your saying, multiverse has infinite probabilities, so this could technically come about, don't think about it, even though, by all rights Kakarot would have died, against the weaker of fighters, he would have died against the stronger of fighters. It doesn't excuse lazy writing. Kakarot should not be alive, Kakarot should be dead.

What I'm actually saying is that you are acting like you know exactly how everything would go down... But you actually don't. Nor do I. As for the writing regarding Kakarotto in DBM, see my first response.

[Gog]

Yeah? Is that why I commented a few posts ago that DBM hasn't explained exactly why Kakarotto is the way he is and even offered several ways in which they could justify it and improve it? Or maybe you just didn't pay enough attention to what I'm saying?
Since adult Goku is much stronger than King Piccolo, and since around King Piccolo's level would be more than enough to take over the world... no.
Like I said, much weaker than adult Goku, still powerful enough as an adult to take over. He could have less effective ways to get stronger but he could still have several ways to get stronger. No actual problem at all.
What I'm actually saying is that you are acting like you know exactly how everything would go down... But you actually don't. Nor do I. As for the writing regarding Kakarotto in DBM, see my first response.

(Just need to get what I said out of their kapeesh?)

Yeah, you mean living in the wild right? And constantly training, Except it's shown in the comic that Kakarotto managed to kill Roshi early. Do you realize how dumb that is? Kakarotto managed to accomplish something that his alternate, with far more training failed to do. So unless Kakarotto is channeling the power of Plot(TM) It is simply illogical. I have been paying attention, you've just haven't been making much sense.

Adult Goku had a power level of 416, Kakarotto shouldn't even be one fourth as strong as that, yes their would be ways to get stronger but those would take years upon years, in fact in the special two brothers Kakarotto knows how to sense ki, and has a power level of 576 wait-wait it actually says that he has a powerlevel of 1445.

I'm not even sure why Goku even bothered to train, when his evil counterpart is outdoing him left and right.

Kakarotto is bad writing. Slagir when creating universe 13, probably thought that evil sayians ruling the universe was a cool idea, and it would be even cooler if there was an evil mad super Saiyan Goku in their.

[miguelnuva1]

Didn't Raditz say that Kakarot was 800 when he net him?

Anyway U13 Kakarot would have likely abused Zenkais mixed with personal trainning.

Zenkais weren't intoduced till DBZ for Toriyama but Salagir has them right from the start in his story so Kakarot could just abuse them.

Also remember a saiyan can get a Zenkai as long as he's not intentionally hurting himself.

[HeroR]

No, because that was how Goku got strong in the first place, if Goku is evil, then they won't bother training him, and he would die against the superior trained martial artists. Goku being good is how he got so strong in the first place, the fact that he can kill master Roshi, can kill tao pai pai, kill anyone is ridiculous in on itself

Just because that is how Goku got strong doesn't mean Kakarot has to follow the exact same path to be successful. That wouldn't make any logically sense.

[Gog]

No, because that was how Goku got strong in the first place, if Goku is evil, then they won't bother training him, and he would die against the superior trained martial artists. Goku being good is how he got so strong in the first place, the fact that he can kill master Roshi, can kill tao pai pai, kill anyone is ridiculous in on itself

Just because that is how Goku got strong doesn't mean Kakarot has to follow the exact same path to be successful. That wouldn't make any logically sense.

No, Kakrotto Succeeded Goku, he had a power level of 567, wait nope, he actually had a power level of 1445, and he could sense ki. So How does this make any logical sense? How can he be that strong when he never trained with Grandpa Gohan, never trained with master roshi, never trained with Korin, never drank the ultra divine water, and never trained with Kami for three years which was the thing that enabled him to sense Ki in the first place. But wait he trained in the wilderness, for a very long time, so of course he would be 'weally stronk', he's also 'weally' evil, so thats why he was able to learn how to sense ki and Slagir can't write alternate realities to save his life

[HeroR]

No, because that was how Goku got strong in the first place, if Goku is evil, then they won't bother training him, and he would die against the superior trained martial artists. Goku being good is how he got so strong in the first place, the fact that he can kill master Roshi, can kill tao pai pai, kill anyone is ridiculous in on itself

Just because that is how Goku got strong doesn't mean Kakarot has to follow the exact same path to be successful. That wouldn't make any logically sense.

No, Kakrotto Succeeded Goku, he had a power level of 567, wait nope, he actually had a power level of 1445, and he could sense ki. So How does this make any logical sense? How can he be that strong when he never trained with Grandpa Gohan, never trained with master roshi, never trained with Korin, never drank the ultra divine water, and never trained with Kami for three years which was the thing that enabled him to sense Ki in the first place. But wait he trained in the wilderness, for a very long time, so of course he would be 'weally stronk', he's also 'weally' evil, so thats why he was able to learn how to sense ki and Slagir can't write alternate realities to save his life

That's because we know how the story goes if Goku succeeds. We don't know how the story would go if Kakarot succeeded at his mission. Multiverse's version of Kakarot may not be well-written, but to say that Kakarot can't succeed at all because he didn't go through the exact same adventures as Goku is flawed.

[Gog]

Just because that is how Goku got strong doesn't mean Kakarot has to follow the exact same path to be successful. That wouldn't make any logically sense.

No, Kakrotto Succeeded Goku, he had a power level of 567, wait nope, he actually had a power level of 1445, and he could sense ki. So How does this make any logical sense? How can he be that strong when he never trained with Grandpa Gohan, never trained with master roshi, never trained with Korin, never drank the ultra divine water, and never trained with Kami for three years which was the thing that enabled him to sense Ki in the first place. But wait he trained in the wilderness, for a very long time, so of course he would be 'weally stronk', he's also 'weally' evil, so thats why he was able to learn how to sense ki and Slagir can't write alternate realities to save his life

That's because we know how the story goes if Goku succeeds. We don't know how the story would go if Kakarot succeeded at his mission. Multiverse's version of Kakarot may not be well-written, but to say that Kakarot can't succeed at all because he didn't go through the exact same adventures as Goku is flawed.

then Slagir isn't that good of a writer if he can't even realistically make an evil Goku succeed. The Idea however that he can surpass Goku, with a powerlevel of 1445 is so dumb in its badness that nothing in super has really done anything as bad. Because I repeat the only reason why Goku became as strong as he was because he trained with grampa gohan, Master Roshi, oh wait if he's evil then that means no sensu beans, that also means that he can't drink the ultra divine water, he can't train with Kami.

If he went on a gigantic murder spree, to wipe out the human race, he would be killed off.

[Noah]

I made a thread about the subject if someone is interested