"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

Short answer: Super needs stop dick-teasing fans with Vegeta and actually do something with him. Toriyama and the anime staff understood this with Z.

What more can be done with Vegeta? His character has already come full circle at this stage. I mean, if anything, Super is already going the extra mile and is portraying how much of family man Vegeta is with his current priorities. Just a few episodes ago, he flat out declined the opportunity to fight some warriors from another universe, just to support his wife during her late stages of pregnancy. Vegeta has mellowed out insanely and we're finally seeing how much of a good husband he can actually be.

[Doctor.]

What more can be done with the Vegeta?

Goku vs Vegeta part 3.

[Chuquita]

Imo, current anime Vegeta is only a good result for his family. It's good for Bulma, Trunks, and Bra.

As a viewer though, it's incredibly boring. It's the difference between hot sauce and the mildest of cheeses. I'm happy for his family that's finally got that generic nuclear family household, but it's so dull. Conflict is what moves plot and the way things are...I just don't care.

Are there that many people in Shueisha that were clamoring for what's happened to Vegeta in the anime?

Is this what it's like for Piccolo fans? I'm curious because that's the closest to "used to do badass stuff, but no longer".

Gohan's more of a complicated case so I can't really bring him into this.

In universe I'm proud of Vegeta for being a mature responsible adult; out of universe I'm disappointed he's heading the same bland direction as GT Vegeta after all.

I miss hot blooded rival Vegeta, but there's little I can do about the loss. (Except support the Super manga because he's still good there.)

[Jinzoningen MULE]

What more can be done with the Vegeta?

They could follow through on the several roles they seem to want to put him in. That's all I want, and it's not much, since Super is the show that keeps teasing these ideas.

Here's a few spitballs:

• Have him become a legitimate mentor to Cabba (Trunks could work, too), let him bond with his students, and make character arcs based on that.
  
  Have Vegeta step up his rivalry game, it wouldn't be difficult to have him innovate in some spectacular way. As-is, the rivalry is a stale joke, especially since Goku has the Kaioken. If they're doing the rivalry, make it an actual rivalry.
  
  The exact opposite if the last option; Drop the rivalry altogether. Not only would it be in line with his last bit of development in Z, but with Bra being born, now is the perfect time. From now on, Vegeta fights for his family and his self-satisfaction, not to prove himself to others.

None of these require complex scenarios, or even clever writing, really. We don't ask for much.

[Lord Beerus]

What more can be done with Vegeta?

Goku vs Vegeta part 3.

Unless it's what Dragon Ball Online did with their climatic final battle, no thanks.

Real talk: I deeply resented the fact that Goku and Vegeta fought again in the Majin Boo arc. I don't think Goku and Vegeta should have fought again seriously after their first scuffle in the Saiyan arc.

[ekrolo2]

What more can be done with Vegeta?

Goku vs Vegeta part 3.

Unless it's what Dragon Ball Online did with their climatic final battle, no thanks.

Real talk: I deeply resented the fact that Goku and Vegeta fought again in the Majin Boo arc. I don't think Goku and Vegeta should have fought again seriously after their first scuffle in the Saiyan arc.

I like it as a setup for Vegeta killing himself to clean up his own mess.

And you're right, if Goku vs Vegeta 3 ever happens, it HAS to be the DBO version and should be the absolute last episode of whatever Dragon Ball show does it with Super #66 production values.

[Doctor.]

And you're right, if Goku vs Vegeta 3 ever happens, it HAS to be the DBO version and should be the absolute last episode of whatever Dragon Ball show does it with Super #66 production values.

Don't think it has to necessarily be the last episode of the show. It just has to be the end of Goku and Vegeta's story.

A movie would work best, to be honest.

[perucho1990]

That reminds me, how is Vegeta going to keep up with Goku now that Goku has mastered Kaioken(for the looks of it), at some point he should pull a GT Vegeta(in the sense of dropping his rivalry with Goku).

Let him become a mentor not only for Cabba for also for the U6 Saiyan(well the ones that are as old as Cabba).

In sense he is also pulling a Goku(leaving his family to do something else).

[Lord Beerus]

What more can be done with Vegeta?

They could follow through on the several roles they seem to want to put him in. That's all I want, and it's not much, since Super is the show that keeps teasing these ideas.

Here's a few spitballs:

• Have him become a legitimate mentor to Cabba (Trunks could work, too), let him bond with his students, and make character arcs based on that.
  
  Have Vegeta step up his rivalry game, it wouldn't be difficult to have him innovate in some spectacular way. As-is, the rivalry is a stale joke, especially since Goku has the Kaioken. If they're doing the rivalry, make it an actual rivalry.
  
  The exact opposite if the last option; Drop the rivalry altogether. Not only would it be in line with his last bit of development in Z, but with Bra being born, now is the perfect time. From now on, Vegeta fights for his family and his self-satisfaction, not to prove himself to others.

None of these require complex scenarios, or even clever writing, really. We don't ask for much.

The only option that sounds intriguing to me is Vegeta mentoring Cabba. If only for the sake of seeing more of the Saiyans in Universe 6 and Planet Sadla. I honestly don't see why Vegeta would need to step-up his rivalry or drop it all together. The current middle ground of the "rivalry" that Goku and Vegeta have perfectly fine and acceptable given the current characterisation of Vegeta. With him not being hung up on Goku being one step ahead of him, and being happy if he surpasses but also accepting the scenario of Goku out-performing him.

[Doctor.]

The current middle ground of the "rivalry" that Goku and Vegeta have perfectly fine and acceptable given the current characterisation of Vegeta. With him not being hung up on Goku being one step ahead of him, and being happy if he surpasses but also accepting the scenario of Goku out-performing him.

What middle ground? Vegeta being severely outclassed but somehow they're both under the illusion that they're even? No, that's awful writing.

Mix it up a little, have Vegeta ahead and show us how Goku reacts to it. The F arc kinda did this but then they dropped it completely after.

[ekrolo2]

Don't think it has to necessarily be the last episode of the show. It just has to be the end of Goku and Vegeta's story.

A movie would work best, to be honest.

The premise alone would make it worthy of a movie but I think you'd need some really, really strong character stuff with Goku & Vegeta reaching the end of their ropes as a good setup for the fight. A somber, Logan-esque mood would need to be present to really sell "These guys are truly at the end of their ropes and don't have much left in them". I don't trust the current crop of people involved to not fuck this up harder than life itself.

[TheMathemagician]

I find the idea that Vegeta has been domesticated, odd. Did everyone forget him against Black after RoSaT or abandoning his family for months to reach God level, we also have him tutoring Cabba.

For me Vegeta has been one of the most interesting characters in Super, mainly because we have been given the opportunity to witness his development that started in the Boo Arc.

Could people stop pretending that either Goku or Vegeta had abandoned their families? Cause they really didn't, I thought abandon was when you left without anyone knowing why. In the case of Oob, Goku told to his family before, same thing with Vegeta. Bulma and Trunks knew why he was leaving, Bulma even made a new outfit for him for god's sake.

And I disagree about Vegeta being one of the most interesting characters in Super, he's better than Goku and that's a fact as in Super he's just portrayed as a really enthusiastic dumb guy, addicted to fighting, with rare moments of seriousness and maturity while Vegeta since Episode #2 shows he cares about his family, but even though he made a speech admiting Goku was better, he regressed to his Android arc self, obsessed again in surpassing his rival, always grumpy for stupid reasons and used often to silly gags that we could never imagine Vegeta to take part in Z.

I feel you, I'm tired of they using Vegeta for stupid and overused jokes, but I wouldn't say I would like his Super Vegeta persona to came back, I think the best characterization Vegeta ever had was when he came back to Earth to fight Boo-han that he had to join with Goku, we had good moments of them together (including filler)

Buu arc Vegeta was amazing and the Vegeta that I miss the most. I'd settle for early Super at this point only because I'm near the end of my rope with Vegeta and my hopes are so low atm, but Buu arc Vegeta is the ideal characterization of him that I'd be excited to see return.

Not just Vegeta, but also Goku had his best characterization in Boo arc IMO it saddens me that in Super they're almost like a parody of themselves in Z.

Maybe TFS will make him Just like that

I don't think TFS has plans or abridging Super in the future.

But that isn't a fact.

[Doctor.]

Don't think it has to necessarily be the last episode of the show. It just has to be the end of Goku and Vegeta's story.

A movie would work best, to be honest.

The premise alone would make it worthy of a movie but I think you'd need some really, really strong character stuff with Goku & Vegeta reaching the end of their ropes as a good setup for the fight. A somber, Logan-esque mood would need to be present to really sell "These guys are truly at the end of their ropes and don't have much left in them". I don't trust the current crop of people involved to not fuck this up harder than life itself.

Just send a screenplay to Toei HQ. I'm sure they're gonna take a look at it.

[Lord Beerus]

The current middle ground of the "rivalry" that Goku and Vegeta have perfectly fine and acceptable given the current characterisation of Vegeta. With him not being hung up on Goku being one step ahead of him, and being happy if he surpasses but also accepting the scenario of Goku out-performing him.

What middle ground? Vegeta being severely outclassed but somehow they're both under the illusion that they're even? No, that's awful writing.

Mix it up a little, have Vegeta ahead and show us how Goku reacts to it. The F arc kinda did this but then they dropped it completely after.

I don't think either of them are under the illusion that they're even. Hell, didn't Whis state in the ROF arc that Goku was still ahead of him? Considering that Vegeta witnessed first hand Goku do the impossible with combining the Super Saiyan Blue and Kaioken, I don't buy for a second Vegeta is still on level pegging with Goku. And Super is pretty up front the Goku and still ahead of Vegeta by a good margin. It's just that Vegeta doesn't really care about it that much.

And if Vegeta does surpass Goku there-in lies a problem with how Goku reacts. In the fact that he'd most likely wouldn't react at all, beyond his stock "I'll train eve harder" comment/response. In the scenario of Vegeta being stronger than Goku, Goku would most likely say this:

"Wow, Vegeta! You've gotten so much stronger than me! Looks like I gotta train harder to keep up!"

And then that would be the end of it.

[TheMathemagician]

The current middle ground of the "rivalry" that Goku and Vegeta have perfectly fine and acceptable given the current characterisation of Vegeta. With him not being hung up on Goku being one step ahead of him, and being happy if he surpasses but also accepting the scenario of Goku out-performing him.

What middle ground? Vegeta being severely outclassed but somehow they're both under the illusion that they're even? No, that's awful writing.

Mix it up a little, have Vegeta ahead and show us how Goku reacts to it. The F arc kinda did this but then they dropped it completely after.

I don't think either of them are under the illution that there even. Hell, didn't Whis state in the ROF arc that Goku was still ahead of him? Considering that Vegeta witnessed first hand Goku do the impossible with combining the Super Saiyan Blue and Kaioken, I don't buy for a second Vegeta is still on level pegging with Goku. And Super is pretty up front the Goku and still ahead of Vegeta by a good margin. It's just that Vegeta doesn't really care about it that much.

And if Vegeta does surpass Goku there-in lies a problem with how Goku reacts. In the fact that he'd most likely wouldn't react at all, beyond his stock "I'll train eve harder" comment/response. In the scenario of Vegeta being stronger than Goku, Goku would most likely say this:

"Wow, Vegeta! You've gotten so much stronger than me! Looks like I gotta train harder to keep up!"

And then that would be the end of it.

Didn't Goku react completely fine with Vegeta being stronger after the Rosat, and in the Battle of Gods where Vegeta flaunted how he had surpassed Goku only for Goku to smile and acknowledge said fact and move on? I just don't think Vegeta being above Goku would do anything for Goku. I just don't see Goku's reaction being anything all that interesting to make their rivalry more interesting.

[Doctor.]

I don't think either of them are under the illution that there even.

Vegeta literally said he was stronger than Goku when facing Black.

And if Vegeta does surpass Goku there-in lies a problem with how Goku reacts. In the fact that he'd most likely wouldn't react at all, beyond his stock "I'll train eve harder" comment/response. In the scenario of Vegeta being stronger than Goku, Goku would most likely say this:

"Wow, Vegeta! You've gotten so much stronger than me! Looks like I gotta train harder to keep up!"

And then that would be the end of it.

If that happens, then that just shows the writers don't have the imagination to do anything differently. Even if Goku reacts as you say, then you can have Vegeta realize how fruitless his effort has been since Goku doesn't acknowledge his effort the way he wanted him to. You can do all kinds of interesting character stuff as long as you write it well. Goku is such a poorly written character, or so inconsistently written, that he's done stuff that would have been considered out-of-character a few arcs earlier and people still treat it as development.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't think either of them are under the illusion that there even.

Vegeta literally said he was stronger than Goku when facing Black.

Did he? Was that after his trip in the ROSAT or before?

[Doctor.]

I don't think either of them are under the illusion that there even.

Vegeta literally said he was stronger than Goku when facing Black.

Did he? Was that after his trip in the ROSAT or before?

After. Even if he was stronger than him in SSB, Goku still has Kaioken. Which leads once again to my main point: Goku still severely outclasses him and the show keeps pretending there's some rivalry.

[pacz360]

I don't think either of them are under the illution that there even.

Vegeta literally said he was stronger than Goku when facing Black.

And if Vegeta does surpass Goku there-in lies a problem with how Goku reacts. In the fact that he'd most likely wouldn't react at all, beyond his stock "I'll train eve harder" comment/response. In the scenario of Vegeta being stronger than Goku, Goku would most likely say this:

"Wow, Vegeta! You've gotten so much stronger than me! Looks like I gotta train harder to keep up!"

And then that would be the end of it.

If that happens, then that just shows the writers don't have the imagination to do anything differently. Even if Goku reacts as you say, then you can have Vegeta realize how fruitless his effort has been since Goku doesn't acknowledge his effort the way he wanted him to. You can do all kinds of interesting character stuff as long as you write it well. Goku is such a poorly written character, or so inconsistently written, that he's done stuff that would have been considered out-of-character a few arcs earlier and people still treat it as development.

You mean in super correct if so i agree.

[Lord Beerus]

What middle ground? Vegeta being severely outclassed but somehow they're both under the illusion that they're even? No, that's awful writing.

Mix it up a little, have Vegeta ahead and show us how Goku reacts to it. The F arc kinda did this but then they dropped it completely after.

I don't think either of them are under the illusion that they're even. Hell, didn't Whis state in the ROF arc that Goku was still ahead of him? Considering that Vegeta witnessed first hand Goku do the impossible with combining the Super Saiyan Blue and Kaioken, I don't buy for a second Vegeta is still on level pegging with Goku. And Super is pretty up front the Goku and still ahead of Vegeta by a good margin. It's just that Vegeta doesn't really care about it that much.

And if Vegeta does surpass Goku there-in lies a problem with how Goku reacts. In the fact that he'd most likely wouldn't react at all, beyond his stock "I'll train eve harder" comment/response. In the scenario of Vegeta being stronger than Goku, Goku would most likely say this:

"Wow, Vegeta! You've gotten so much stronger than me! Looks like I gotta train harder to keep up!"

And then that would be the end of it.

Didn't Goku react completely fine with Vegeta being stronger after the Rosat, and in the Battle of Gods where Vegeta flaunted how he had surpassed Goku only for Goku to smile and acknowledge said fact and move on? I just don't think Vegeta being above Goku would do anything for Goku. I just don't see Goku's reaction being anything all that interesting to make their rivalry more interesting.

Yeah, that's the problem with Goku: He doesn't really give a shit if people are stronger than him. Hell, he welcomes that scenario with open arms.

I don't think either of them are under the illution that there even.

Vegeta literally said he was stronger than Goku when facing Black.

And if Vegeta does surpass Goku there-in lies a problem with how Goku reacts. In the fact that he'd most likely wouldn't react at all, beyond his stock "I'll train eve harder" comment/response. In the scenario of Vegeta being stronger than Goku, Goku would most likely say this:

"Wow, Vegeta! You've gotten so much stronger than me! Looks like I gotta train harder to keep up!"

And then that would be the end of it.

If that happens, then that just shows the writers don't have the imagination to do anything differently. Even if Goku reacts as you say, then you can have Vegeta realize how fruitless his effort has been since Goku doesn't acknowledge his effort the way he wanted him to. You can do all kinds of interesting character stuff as long as you write it well. Goku is such a poorly written character, or so inconsistently written, that he's done stuff that would have been considered out-of-character a few arcs earlier and people still treat it as development.

You mean in super correct if so i agree.

Goku also has some characterisation issues in the original story, to be honest.