"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Basako]

Quote from Toyo here from here:
"The other thing…I thought Toriyama would be more particular about the story, but he's actually more particular about the gags and the comedic moments."* Plus it's pretty obvious reading the Manga and seeing how different it is.


*www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016 ... ou/.107579

Another quote from the same interview:

The parts I really want my fans and readers to look at are the comedic gags, because I'm pretty free to create those!

The comedic gags are the parts where Toyo has more freedom, meaning he has less in the rest. Toriyama being more particular about the gags doesn't imply what you say, it just means he has a particular fixation with them, which is not surprising, as we know his comedic history in many of his previos mangas and even on DB, mostly in its early chapters.

[SansrivaaL]

Vegeta having SSJG is nonsense. It seems like an asspull, because why would Vegeta not think about using the form until now? Plus, if Vegeta is that much stronger as a SSJG after training in the ROSAT, then surely he should power up to SSJB and finish off SSJR Goku Black? I mean, the jump in power he made in the ROSAT was insane for him to be kicking SSJR Goku Black's ass as a SSJG. If Vegeta doesn't go SSJB against SSJR Goku Black, he's an idiot because SSJB is at the very least X10 stronger than SSJG in the manga. He could end this fight instantly. I hope to God Toyotaro explains this shit.

I also knew that Goku would forget either the senzu or the mafuba seal. And the manner in which it was done was at the expense of a lame "Roshi is perv"-esque kind of gag. Dumb and unfunny. The anime actually handled that better.

I also hate how Goku Black is made to play the "submissive" role in the dynamic relationship of Goku Black and Zamasu. What made that paring so great in the anime was that they never turned on each-other, they both realised how much they needed each other and how they respected themselves. Here in the manga, it just comes across as it that Goku Black is Zamaus' lackey and underling. Despite the fact it was Goku Black who got the ball rolling with the entire plot of the arc. Toyotaro is dropping the ball with Goku Black hard.

I'm intrigued to see the chapter in full. But I'm not liking my first impressions of it.

EDIT: Just saw Merged Zamasu. He still looks cool as shit.

We know Vegeta, he got humiliated badly by Black couple of chapters ago, he wants to full retribution hence he shows that "SSJG should be more than enough for kicking your ass, and I'm also gonna play around with you because thats what we saiyans do, play around when we have a huge advantage" he was going on about "you picked the wrong body to take pal"

Nah, both anime and manga was poor with making that a gag, it wasnt funny at all. Tho manga's making it more as a gag since Goku took Roshi's hostess bar card while anime just maked him forget. Forgetting stuffs isnt really funny, but naive and pure Goku picking up a hostess card is quite funny if we do see his reaction and they handle it well, which I doubt, Toyo's not good with gag scenes.

True, anime did their relationship a lot better, I hate that they're turning on each other, whats worst is Zamasu was the one looking like the top dog.

Also I wont get tired repeating this, Vegeta looks fcking horrible in SSJG.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta having SSJG is nonsense. It seems like an asspull, because why would Vegeta not think about using the form until now? Plus, if Vegeta is that much stronger as a SSJG after training in the ROSAT, then surely he should power up to SSJB and finish off SSJR Goku Black? I mean, the jump in power he made in the ROSAT was insane for him to be kicking SSJR Goku Black's ass as a SSJG. If Vegeta doesn't go SSJB against SSJR Goku Black, he's an idiot because SSJB is at the very least X10 stronger than SSJG in the manga. He could end this fight instantly. I hope to God Toyotaro explains this shit.

I also knew that Goku would forget either the senzu or the mafuba seal. And the manner in which it was done was at the expense of a lame "Roshi is perv"-esque kind of gag. Dumb and unfunny. The anime actually handled that better.

I also hate how Goku Black is made to play the "submissive" role in the dynamic relationship of Goku Black and Zamasu. What made that paring so great in the anime was that they never turned on each-other, they both realised how much they needed each other and how they respected themselves. Here in the manga, it just comes across as it that Goku Black is Zamaus' lackey and underling. Despite the fact it was Goku Black who got the ball rolling with the entire plot of the arc. Toyotaro is dropping the ball with Goku Black hard.

I'm intrigued to see the chapter in full. But I'm not liking my first impressions of it.

EDIT: Just saw Merged Zamasu. He still looks cool as shit.

We know Vegeta, he got humiliated badly by Black couple of chapters ago, he wants to full retribution hence he shows that "SSJG should be more than enough for kicking your ass, and I'm also gonna play around with you because thats what we saiyans do, play around when we have a huge advantage" he was going on about "you picked the wrong body to take pal"

Nah, both anime and manga was poor with making that a gag, it wasnt funny at all. Tho manga's making it more as a gag since Goku took Roshi's hostess bar card while anime just maked him forget. Forgetting stuffs isnt really funny, but naive and pure Goku picking up a hostess card is quite funny if we do see his reaction and they handle it well, which I doubt, Toyo's not good with gag scenes.

True, anime did their relationship a lot better, I hate that they're turning on each other, whats worst is Zamasu was the one looking like the top dog.

Also I wont get tired repeating this, Vegeta looks fcking horrible in SSJG.

Vegeta is still an idiot for not going SSJB instantly once he realised just how much he was kicking SSJR Goku Black ass as a SSJG. To be honest, Vegeta has been an idiot when it comes to fighting far too often in the manga for my liking.

I didn't say the anime handled the moment with Goku forgetting the seal was good in the anime. Just the lesser of the two evil. He shouldn't have forgotten the Mafuba seal in the first place, and it a shame that it had to be such a plot-point.

[SansrivaaL]

Vegeta having SSJG is nonsense. It seems like an asspull, because why would Vegeta not think about using the form until now? Plus, if Vegeta is that much stronger as a SSJG after training in the ROSAT, then surely he should power up to SSJB and finish off SSJR Goku Black? I mean, the jump in power he made in the ROSAT was insane for him to be kicking SSJR Goku Black's ass as a SSJG. If Vegeta doesn't go SSJB against SSJR Goku Black, he's an idiot because SSJB is at the very least X10 stronger than SSJG in the manga. He could end this fight instantly. I hope to God Toyotaro explains this shit.

I also knew that Goku would forget either the senzu or the mafuba seal. And the manner in which it was done was at the expense of a lame "Roshi is perv"-esque kind of gag. Dumb and unfunny. The anime actually handled that better.

I also hate how Goku Black is made to play the "submissive" role in the dynamic relationship of Goku Black and Zamasu. What made that paring so great in the anime was that they never turned on each-other, they both realised how much they needed each other and how they respected themselves. Here in the manga, it just comes across as it that Goku Black is Zamaus' lackey and underling. Despite the fact it was Goku Black who got the ball rolling with the entire plot of the arc. Toyotaro is dropping the ball with Goku Black hard.

I'm intrigued to see the chapter in full. But I'm not liking my first impressions of it.

EDIT: Just saw Merged Zamasu. He still looks cool as shit.

We know Vegeta, he got humiliated badly by Black couple of chapters ago, he wants to full retribution hence he shows that "SSJG should be more than enough for kicking your ass, and I'm also gonna play around with you because thats what we saiyans do, play around when we have a huge advantage" he was going on about "you picked the wrong body to take pal"

Nah, both anime and manga was poor with making that a gag, it wasnt funny at all. Tho manga's making it more as a gag since Goku took Roshi's hostess bar card while anime just maked him forget. Forgetting stuffs isnt really funny, but naive and pure Goku picking up a hostess card is quite funny if we do see his reaction and they handle it well, which I doubt, Toyo's not good with gag scenes.

True, anime did their relationship a lot better, I hate that they're turning on each other, whats worst is Zamasu was the one looking like the top dog.

Also I wont get tired repeating this, Vegeta looks fcking horrible in SSJG.

Vegeta is still an idiot for not going SSJB instantly once he realised just how much he was kicking SSJR Goku Black ass as a SSJG. To be honest, Vegeta has been an idiot when it comes to fighting far too often in the manga for my liking.

I didn't say the anime handled the moment with Goku forgetting the seal was good in the anime. Just the lesser of the two evil. He shouldn't have forgotten the Mafuba seal in the first place, and it a shame that it had to be such a plot-point.

Vegeta's always been an idiot when it comes to fighting someone he's leagues above with, like what happened with Cell, the dumbass waited for Cell to absorb 18 just to prove a point that he can still take him out even in his perfect form.

Look on the bright side, if Goku really did bring the seal, we wouldnt be getting Merged Zamasu... ok maybe in the manga I'm fine with Black being gone, but in the anime I woulda preferred just Black V Goku and Vegeta.

[kinisking]

Again, Vegeta was a villain at that point in the story. He did a lot of scummy, evil shit throughout the arc and Toriyama is quick to remind you. It'd be satisfying to nobody if Vegeta got the kill.

This is a completely different situation. The three characters are heroes and are on equal footing. They aren't being limited by their role in the story. The logical thing to do would be to put Black as the opponent of the characters who have the biggest connection to him. Gohan also has a reason to care. Present Trunks has a reason to care. Yet those characters aren't defeating Black, and for good reason. It's not cathartic in the slightest to have Vegeta defeat Black, it's just poor.

Vegeta has a much better reason to care than Gohan and Present trunks. He's also strong enough to best Black unlike them. Vegeta besting black is a good way to show his character development ( respecting Goku and caring for Trunks ) while also giving him a way to fight a Goku look alike. It's not poor at all for him to get a few good fights in. You act like you don't know that Trunks is gong to be the one to end up dealing a massive blow to Merged Zamasu.

Villians don't have to be beaten by the one with the strongest connection. Freeza and Vegeta in rof isn't the only one that comes to mind. They'res piccolo and Roshi, Boo and supreme Kai .

Did you want Vegeta to just sit on the side lines or something?

and you forgot to include Gohan and cell,they didn't have a connection big as trunks. and cell, but yet he is the one to defeat him

Gohan has a bigger connection than trunks by the end of it. The trunks in the cell games never really interacted with cell that much and it's not like cell did anything to his future. Meanwhile, Cell tortured Gohan physically and mentally then killed his father.

[Kanassa]

Gohan has a bigger connection than trunks by the end of it. The trunks in the cell games never really interacted with cell that much and it's not like cell did anything to his future. Meanwhile, Cell tortured Gohan physically and mentally then killed his father.

Actually, a common complaint about what detracts from the Gohan VS Cell fight is Gohan's lack of connection with Cell outside of the ''You're evil!''. It would of added a whole lot to the fight if Goku's sacrifice is what triggers he SS2 transformation. With 16's death being what gets Gohan to stop fucking around.

[Totamo]

Vegeta has a much better reason to care than Gohan and Present trunks. He's also strong enough to best Black unlike them. Vegeta besting black is a good way to show his character development ( respecting Goku and caring for Trunks ) while also giving him a way to fight a Goku look alike. It's not poor at all for him to get a few good fights in. You act like you don't know that Trunks is gong to be the one to end up dealing a massive blow to Merged Zamasu.

Villians don't have to be beaten by the one with the strongest connection. Freeza and Vegeta in rof isn't the only one that comes to mind. They'res piccolo and Roshi, Boo and supreme Kai .

Did you want Vegeta to just sit on the side lines or something?

and you forgot to include Gohan and cell,they didn't have a connection big as trunks. and cell, but yet he is the one to defeat him

Gohan has a bigger connection than trunks by the end of it. The trunks in the cell games never really interacted with cell that much and it's not like cell did anything to his future. Meanwhile, Cell tortured Gohan physically and mentally then killed his father.

Cell...cell killed trunks in the future.

[Khin]

I’m cool with SSG Vegeta (in the manga, at least, sine I think it would look awful in the anime), but it makes you question why he didn’t just use that form against Hit, instead of burning through ~90% of his strength by transforming into blue again. After all, SSG was said to be stronger than 10% SSB.

I really hope we’ll get a proper explanation, because there’s no reason for Vegeta to use Super Saiyan God aside from extra pointless fan service. Vegeta trained in the Room of Spirit and Time for quite a while, so surely even if the blue weakness still applies, he should be able to turn back again by now.

Also, I’m not a fan of Trunks being useless and just watching in the sidelines. I would’ve prefer it if Goku and Vegeta teamed up against Black while Trunks takes care of Zamasu. At very least, the anime made Trunks useful despite how controversial some of them is, but I would’ve still perfer that way instead of just him being worthless.

With the Genki-dama sword likely out of the picture, I’m curious how Toyotaro will handle the ending. If Zen’ou just straight up erases Zamasu without Trunks doing anything, I would be pissed. I already hate how he didn’t to beat Black after all the shit he done to him, It would just be bullshit if he didn’t manage to do anything worthwhile before his world was erased.

[Totamo]

Quote from Toyo here from here:
"The other thing…I thought Toriyama would be more particular about the story, but he's actually more particular about the gags and the comedic moments."* Plus it's pretty obvious reading the Manga and seeing how different it is.


*www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016 ... ou/.107579

Another quote from the same interview:

The parts I really want my fans and readers to look at are the comedic gags, because I'm pretty free to create those!

The comedic gags are the parts where Toyo has more freedom, meaning he has less in the rest. Toriyama being more particular about the gags doesn't imply what you say, it just means he has a particular fixation with them, which is not surprising, as we know his comedic history in many of his previos mangas and even on DB, mostly in its early chapters.

Toyo is allowed to add stuff to the story. Toriyama encouraged him to do so.


Toyo is writing his fanfic and we all have to accept it officially

[Baggie_Saiyan]

This is The Future Trunks arc correct? Is it me or does it feel like Trunks has barely done anything in Toyo's rendition?

[RehBeh]

SSG Vegeta? Cool...

[TheMikado]

This is The Future Trunks arc correct? Is it me or does it feel like Trunks has barely done anything in Toyo's rendition?

Maybe Trunks wasn't supposed to have a big part like Goku but for fan service sake they were given things like SSRage...

[emperior]

We still haven't got the full leaks but it's quite stupid to have Vegeta use SSG and then turn SSB just for punching, because we know in Dragon Ball power isn't everything, so, in order to pull a stunt like that, it means Vegeta as a SSG must be superior to SSR Black (though I feel like SSG and Blue aren't that far apart power wise) and why didn't Goku do the same thing with SSJ3, and why didn't Trunks do the same thing with USSJ? (He did in Multiverse, I think Toyo took inspiration from that)
Toriyama also never gave such a weakness to Super Saiyan 1 so why would Blue have all this drawbacks? And wasn't it stated repeatedly turning Blue wastes a ton of energy? And doesn't SSG have a time limit?
Bringing back SSG was just a poor excuse for Toyotaro to use his favorite form.
It also seems like there's no Goku vs Black in the manga... What a waste. As of now, the anime was much better than the manga until this point. Oh, and Trunks might still achieve his new form in the manga, and I hope he does because he has been useless in the manga so far.

[LightBing]

I’m cool with SSG Vegeta (in the manga, at least, sine I think it would look awful in the anime), but it makes you question why he didn’t just use that form against Hit, instead of burning through ~90% of his strength by transforming into blue again. After all, SSG was said to be stronger than 10% SSB.

I really hope we’ll get a proper explanation, because there’s no reason for Vegeta to use Super Saiyan God aside from extra pointless fan service. Vegeta trained in the Room of Spirit and Time for quite a while, so surely even if the blue weakness still applies, he should be able to turn back again by now.

Also, I’m not a fan of Trunks being useless and just watching in the sidelines. I would’ve prefer it if Goku and Vegeta teamed up against Black while Trunks takes care of Zamasu. At very least, the anime made Trunks useful despite how controversial some of them is, but I would’ve still perfer that way instead of just him being worthless.

With the Genki-dama sword likely out of the picture, I’m curious how Toyotaro will handle the ending. If Zen’ou just straight up erases Zamasu without Trunks doing anything, I would be pissed. I already hate how he didn’t to beat Black after all the shit he done to him, It would just be bullshit if he didn’t manage to do anything worthwhile before his world was erased.

I also hope for an explanation for the reasons stated. Let's hope it's a way to circumvent SSJB weakness. I would prefer if the weakness was just dealt it but yeah...

Trunks is only watching now, he's has not been useless for the duration of the arc. That's why he's had a bunch of fight's(most of any character in the arc), his own flashback and got to play the hero by allowing Goku and Vegeta to escape.

This is The Future Trunks arc correct? Is it me or does it feel like Trunks has barely done anything in Toyo's rendition?

It's you. See the last paragraph of my answer to Khin.

[Basako]

Quote from Toyo here from here:
"The other thing…I thought Toriyama would be more particular about the story, but he's actually more particular about the gags and the comedic moments."* Plus it's pretty obvious reading the Manga and seeing how different it is.


*www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016 ... ou/.107579

Another quote from the same interview:

The parts I really want my fans and readers to look at are the comedic gags, because I'm pretty free to create those!

Toyo is writing an official manga, from Toriyama's plot and his supervision and corrections. The parts where he has more freedom are the comedic gags, that means he follows more the plot he is given in the rest. It's clearly stated in the interview.

Toyo is allowed to add stuff to the story. Toriyama encouraged him to do so.

Toyo is writing his fanfic and we all have to accept it officially

Toyo is writing an official manga, not a fan fiction. It comes from Toriyama's plot, with his supervision and corrections. The parts where he has more freedom are the comedic gags, that means he follows more the plot he is given in the rest. It's clearly stated in the interview.

[emperior]

Another quote from the same interview:




The comedic gags are the parts where Toyo has more freedom, meaning he has less in the rest. Toriyama being more particular about the gags doesn't imply what you say, it just means he has a particular fixation with them, which is not surprising, as we know his comedic history in many of his previos mangas and even on DB, mostly in its early chapters.

Toyo is allowed to add stuff to the story. Toriyama encouraged him to do so.

Toyo is writing his fanfic and we all have to accept it officially

Toyo is writing an official manga, from Toriyama's plot and his supervision and corrections. The parts where he has more freedom are the comedic gags, that means he follows more the plot he is given in the rest. It's clearly stated in the interview.

He's free to create some gags, but Toriyama's gags are very detailed why the story isn't (for example Goku vs Hit wasn't very detailed) but as we saw Toyotaro is also using his ideas for the story.

[TheMikado]

^^^ He stated he follows the outline fairly faithfully. We have no such confirmation from Toei in fact we've gotten the opposite from Toriyama himself.

[Basako]

Toyo is allowed to add stuff to the story. Toriyama encouraged him to do so.

Toyo is writing his fanfic and we all have to accept it officially

Toyo is writing an official manga, from Toriyama's plot and his supervision and corrections. The parts where he has more freedom are the comedic gags, that means he follows more the plot he is given in the rest. It's clearly stated in the interview.

He's free to create some gags, but Toriyama's gags are very detailed why the story isn't (for example Goku vs Hit wasn't very detailed) but as we saw Toyotaro is also using his ideas for the story.

Why you people make up things? Goku vs Hit not detailed? Have you seen Toriyama's originals or what. We won't never know for sure what are Toriyama's ideas, unless we are told, like the Black SS, for example. But, we do know what Toyotaro said, that the parts where he has more freedom to add his ideas are the comedic gags.

And Toyo is not writing a fan fiction, he is writing an official manga, from Toriyama's plot and his supervision and corrections. He monthly sends his storyboards to Toriyama so he corrects them.

[emperior]

^^^ He stated he follows the outline fairly faithfully. We have no such confirmation from Toei in fact we've gotten the opposite from Toriyama himself.

So you think bringing back SSG was a Toriyama's idea written on the plot? Judging from both the anime and the manga Toriyama doesn't detailed battles at all except saying things like "Black beats Vegeta who after training in the RoSaT beats Black" so it's quite obvious both Toei and Toyotaro have full freedom over the battles as long as the outcome is the same.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

^^^ He stated he follows the outline fairly faithfully. We have no such confirmation from Toei in fact we've gotten the opposite from Toriyama himself.

Toyo said a reveal is different between the anime, Manga and outline.

Also we know he's changed things from BoG, no reverting back to SS. For eg.

Also Toriyama only said Toei move things around and expand nothing about changes.