precita wrote:The 2008 special was the last time Videl had her old personality. And Trunks and Goten were actually important. And Yamcha wasn't treated badly.
Goddamn, that 2008 special felt far more like DBZ than all of Super does in terms of the characters. Even Goku was still in his laid-back Buu saga "mentor" mode than his battle hungry Super personality.
Goku and Vegeta were rivaling each other throughout that entire special and Gohan was the only one mentoring.
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, super used her more.Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
precita wrote:The 2008 special was the last time Videl had her old personality. And Trunks and Goten were actually important. And Yamcha wasn't treated badly.
Goddamn, that 2008 special felt far more like DBZ than all of Super does in terms of the characters. Even Goku was still in his laid-back Buu saga "mentor" mode than his battle hungry Super personality.
That's because Super isn't Dragon Ball Z. And the entire special was meant to be a throwback feel to the Buu Saga, which is why everyone felt their Buu Saga selves, including Gotenks being an incompetent idiot. Also, read Totamo's post.
Totamo wrote:
Goku and Vegeta were rivaling each other throughout that entire special and Gohan was the only one mentoring.
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, super used her more.Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
When it comes to Dragon Ball's character usage, fans have select memories. Like Yamcha was in the special, but it was Gotenks who used his signature attack. Gotenks didn't even beat the main villain. He screwed around and nearly got everyone killed like in the Buu Saga. Goku was also "battle hungry" since he actually did steal kill from Vegeta.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
Totamo wrote:Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
They're like Trunks and Vegeta in the Cell Saga, they were only there to extend the plot for a few more episode, but everything would ave gone better if they weren't there (Though admittedly, Vegeta was the one who help the beam clash against cell...)
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
Totamo wrote:Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
They're like Trunks and Vegeta in the Cell Saga, they were only there to extend the plot for a few more episode, but everything would ave gone better if they weren't there (Though admittedly, Vegeta was the one who help the beam clash against cell...)
...which was also partly his fault too. He was trying to avenge his son that time so I can't give Vegeta too much grief for that compared to all the other stupid shit he did in the Cell Saga.
precita wrote:The 2008 special was the last time Videl had her old personality. And Trunks and Goten were actually important. And Yamcha wasn't treated badly.
Goddamn, that 2008 special felt far more like DBZ than all of Super does in terms of the characters. Even Goku was still in his laid-back Buu saga "mentor" mode than his battle hungry Super personality.
Goku and Vegeta were rivaling each other throughout that entire special and Gohan was the only one mentoring.
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, super used her more.Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
The point is that everyone was in character there. In Super they aren't.
Totamo wrote:
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, super used her more.Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
I don't get this logic, just because they aren't "relevant" or "used" or all of that doesn't mean that they can't be likeable characters. In Super they're barely even background characters. Hell, Launch has been missing since the Saiyan Saga!
HybridSaiyan wrote:We should just erase Z from our minds when watching Super, that's the only way to make sense of it all.
That would be like erasing DB from our minds while watching DBZ or erasing DBZ from our minds while watching DBGT. It makes no sense to do that.
I know man, I know. It's just hard to follow Super when they screw up so much with character progression and all that crap. I'd laugh my ass off If Supers final episode lead to the events of GT. That would make Super worth it. xD
HybridSaiyan wrote:We should just erase Z from our minds when watching Super, that's the only way to make sense of it all.
That would be like erasing DB from our minds while watching DBZ or erasing DBZ from our minds while watching DBGT. It makes no sense to do that.
I know man, I know. It's just hard to follow Super when they screw up so much with character progression and all that crap. I'd laugh my ass off If Supers final episode lead to the events of GT. That would make Super worth it. xD
Super has pulled some unexpected shit, dude. I wouldn't even be surprised if they tied into GT in some way at this point.
About Kale: who do you guys think designed her? Was it Toriyama, Toei or Toyotaro?
We know for sure Caulifla comes from Toriyama, though Kale we don't know for sure, even though her SSJ design was first revealed along Ribrianne and Jiren who are very likely from Toriyama himself.
I also noticed her jawline is the same as Caulifla's so, unless whoever designed her tried to stay consistent with Toriyama's new art style, I'm more inclined to believe she has been designed by Toriyama. He probably only designed the characters who have been emphasized recently/in the opening, which are 99% going to be the main players in the tournament.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball Manga
Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman
Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return
Additional lore from Toriyama
Dragon Ball Daima
precita wrote:The 2008 special was the last time Videl had her old personality. And Trunks and Goten were actually important. And Yamcha wasn't treated badly.
Goddamn, that 2008 special felt far more like DBZ than all of Super does in terms of the characters. Even Goku was still in his laid-back Buu saga "mentor" mode than his battle hungry Super personality.
Goku and Vegeta were rivaling each other throughout that entire special and Gohan was the only one mentoring.
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, super used her more.Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
The point is that everyone was in character there. In Super they aren't.
Examples please?
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
HybridSaiyan wrote:We should just erase Z from our minds when watching Super, that's the only way to make sense of it all.
I don't know about that, super can go ape shit and give ChiChi breasts for all I care, but I ain't removing the previous installments which I know and love in order to enjoy some hot piece of garbage..
In their support, super is nailing most of their personalities in this arc
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
GodKaio-Ken wrote:As a teenager she liked to run around fighting people. She was then physically destroyed by Spopovich. She gets married and settles down.
It seems logical to me.
People's personalities and interests don't vanish when they get married. Toei's added material involving Great Saiyaman 2 in the original run (including an appearance for her thirty-something self in GT) is one of the few times they've done really right by a character. I thought most of what we saw of her post-Boo arc tracked.
She can mature, sure. But I don't buy the transition from crime-fighting martial-artist to Super's Stepford wife.
precita wrote:The 2008 special was the last time Videl had her old personality. And Trunks and Goten were actually important. And Yamcha wasn't treated badly.
Goddamn, that 2008 special felt far more like DBZ than all of Super does in terms of the characters. Even Goku was still in his laid-back Buu saga "mentor" mode than his battle hungry Super personality.
Goku and Vegeta were rivaling each other throughout that entire special and Gohan was the only one mentoring.
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, Super used her more. Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
Honestly, I have to agree with you on Videl. I don't necessarily HATE her (TERRIBLE first impressions of her in the Great Saiyaman saga aside), but I just never...connected with her like I would Gohan, Krillin, or even Yamcha. She wasn't all that relevant to the Majin Buu arc either, and to be fair, she (INDIRECTLY) contributed to Buu's resurrection thanks to her blackmailing Gohan into entering the World Tournament. Maybe if she wasn't introduced at the tail-end of DBZ, I'd feel more 'invested' in her, so to say.
Totamo wrote:
Goku and Vegeta were rivaling each other throughout that entire special and Gohan was the only one mentoring.
Also someone tell me: Why do people care about Videl? She didn't do anything relevant in the buu saga. Hell, super used her more.Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
I don't think a lot of people here get dragon ball's character usage, THEY BARELY USE THEM.
It's like with Lunch or Chiaozu, THEY DON'T MATTER.
The point is that everyone was in character there. In Super they aren't.
Examples please?
There have already been plenty. Case and point, Videl's entire personality.
Then there's the one that pisses me off in particular, which is Yamcha being treated as a joke in-universe.
Videl had a personality in Dragon Ball Z? All I seem to remember is her having a stick up her ass early on from having to deal with her stupid dad all the time. Then she stuck around a passive milksop all the time and eventually had to adapt like a chameleon to survive her new environment, eventually becoming the supportive yes-man we see at the Tenka'ichi Budoukai and for the rest of the series.
If Videl actually had to bust somebody's balls in Dragon Ball Super...she would. Hell, she did in Episodes #73-74! That fans actively want to have the story go out of its way to piss off Videl just so she can irrationally overreact just seems so trite.
Totamo wrote:Now that I think about what did Goten and Trunks even do? They just made things worse.
They're like Trunks and Vegeta in the Cell Saga, they were only there to extend the plot for a few more episode, but everything would ave gone better if they weren't there (Though admittedly, Vegeta was the one who help the beam clash against cell...)
Buu would have just killed everyone in Earth since he had no one to challenge. So Gotenks was more useful than Cell Saga Vegeta.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
GodKaio-Ken wrote:As a teenager she liked to run around fighting people. She was then physically destroyed by Spopovich. She gets married and settles down.
It seems logical to me.
People's personalities and interests don't vanish when they get married. Toei's added material involving Great Saiyaman 2 in the original run (including an appearance for her thirty-something self in GT) is one of the few times they've done really right by a character. I thought most of what we saw of her post-Boo arc tracked.
She can mature, sure. But I don't buy the transition from crime-fighting martial-artist to Super's Stepford wife.
I disagree with your first line INTENSELY. Everyone changes a LOT once youre married not to mention she was in high school at the time.
Also getting destroyed by Spopovich probably made her less keen to go around starting fights.
Hell even GOHAN stopped fighting. If Goan stopped why would she keep going? That isnt the life they chose.
Currently watching: My Hero Academia
Last watched: Akame Ga Kill, Hokuto No Ken, Hokuto No Ken 2, Hunter X Hunter
Quote if I were to Hakai someone: "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru. Hakai!"
TekTheNinja wrote:
The point is that everyone was in character there. In Super they aren't.
Examples please?
There have already been plenty. Case and point, Videl's entire personality.
Then there's the one that pisses me off in particular, which is Yamcha being treated as a joke in-universe.
So Videl decided to settle down and act more level-headed because she's married and has an infant to look after and she's suddenly out of character for not acting like a teenager? I don't get that
I'm intrigued to know the other examples, though.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
He was trying to avenge his son that time so I can't give Vegeta too much grief for that compared to all the other stupid shit he did in the Cell Saga.
She/Her