Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

[ABED]

Did the writing really need to walk someone through every beat? The narrative was betting on the audience to know Gohan by that point, and where he was coming from. Show, not tell. He didn't need to be actively present throughout the first half of that story -- we know that he exists in the DB world and what his potential is.That narrative was going all over the place with push/pull well before the Cell Games.

The year in isolation in a completely empty environment away from other influences, as well as maturing, can objectively be taken into consideration in Gohan's favor. That is a fact. A different perspective comes with new experiences. A deduction can be made.

This isn't an issue of a subtelty being missed, it's that there's not impetus or rationale for the arc. It's artificial drama. You aren't deducing anything. You are putting a square peg in a round hole. The audience doesn't need its hand held and told what's happening, but we need to be shown a logical reason for such a change. How come no one else had some major change of character in that room?

Goku or Gohan ? either way, both of them are the same and when Gohan wouldn't finish Cell, Piccolo and others pointed out how he let his power take control of him so if that's the change then it was an intentional one cause everyone in-universe pointed it out.

Huh? That's not the change I was referring to because it's not a change. Gohan has always been at the mercy of his emotions.

[ekrolo2]

Did the writing really need to walk someone through every beat? The narrative was betting on the audience to know Gohan by that point, and where he was coming from. Show, not tell. He didn't need to be actively present throughout the first half of that story -- we know that he exists in the DB world and what his potential is.That narrative was going all over the place with push/pull well before the Cell Games.

The year in isolation in a completely empty environment away from other influences, as well as maturing, can objectively be taken into consideration in Gohan's favor. That is a fact. A different perspective comes with new experiences. A deduction can be made.

This isn't an issue of a subtelty being missed, it's that there's not impetus or rationale for the arc. It's artificial drama. You aren't deducing anything. You are putting a square peg in a round hole. The audience doesn't need its hand held and told what's happening, but we need to be shown a logical reason for such a change. How come no one else had some major change of character in that room

This isn't even the first time Toriyama's done this, in the manga version of the Saiyan arc, Gohan goes from being such a worthless little brat who can barely talk without shitting himself to being able to fire ki blasts and take down dinosaurs no problem. There's literally nothing from A to Z: it's just skipped over and you're meant to fill in the blank.

But I guess the Saiyan arc doesn't get as much flack because 1) the anime REALLY helps to solve this problem and 2) Gohan only somewhat stops being afraid, he isn't fully committed to the whole saving the world thing until he decides of his own volition to go back and save his dad when Vegeta turns the ropes on him.

[ABED]

This isn't even the first time Toriyama's done this, in the manga version of the Saiyan arc, Gohan goes from being such a worthless little brat who can barely talk without shitting himself to being able to fire ki blasts and take down dinosaurs no problem. There's literally nothing from A to Z: it's just skipped over and you're meant to fill in the blank.

Not the same thing and that's not A to Z. That's A to L. It's not a radical change in his personality, nor is it the end point. There is context for it and a reason for it. It's set up that Piccolo is leaving him to figure out his power. Sure, we are left to fill in many of the blanks, but there's context. There is ZERO reason for Gohan's change in the Cell arc.

[Bullza]

Gohan never really liked fighting from the start. It was something he was forced into in the Saiyan saga and had no choice in the matter during the Frieza saga. I can't remember if he decided to train for the Androids but even then he kind of had to.

After that he gave up fighting prior to Buu and then after Buu for years upon years. He's only fighting now because the universe is at stake.

[Android 50]

Gonna go with Super all the way since its new content that's pretty entertaining and has had some nice fights in it. Although the animation and art was iffy during the movie retellings, Super really picked up during the Trunks arc. I never really got all the hype for Kai to be honest. I actually like some of the filler in Z that Kai cuts out and when it comes to the dub I prefer some of the old voices in Z over their Kai counterparts. I also didn't like Kai's music placement for the kikuchi score and I never really cared for Yamamoto's score.

[FortuneSSJ]

I enjoy Super much more, but this is an odd comparison.
DB Kai is a different version of DBZ, but it's still a product that follows Toriyama's original manga.

I enjoy DBZ and the original manga much more than Super, but Kai not really.
The lack of filler doesn't make up for the shitty soundtrack and censorship. The old voice actors aren't already on their prime either.

When I'm used to a good product and then they give me a worse version of it, it's just normal for me to not like it.

Super however is a new show with new stories and characters.
The soundtrack destroys everything that Yamamoto composed for Kai and while the old voice actors aren't getting younger, we are getting new powerhouses to the cast such as Kōichi Yamadera - Beerus (officially the best voice actor of the industry), Mitsuo Iwata - Champa, Satomi Kōrogi - Zeno and Shinichiro Miki - Zamasu.

[Ripper 30]

I enjoy Super much more, but this is an odd comparison.
DB Kai is a different version of DBZ, but it's still a product that follows Toriyama's original manga.

I enjoy DBZ and the original manga much more than Super, but Kai not really.
The lack of filler doesn't make up for the shitty soundtrack and censorship. The old voice actors aren't already on their prime either.

When I'm used to a good product and then they give me a worse version of it, it's just normal for me to not like it.

Super however is a new show with new stories and characters.
The soundtrack destroys everything that Yamamoto composed for Kai and while the old voice actors aren't getting younger, we are getting new powerhouses to the cast such as Kōichi Yamadera - Beerus (officially the best voice actor of the industry), Mitsuo Iwata - Champa, Satomi Kōrogi - Zeno and Shinichiro Miki - Zamasu.

I think the old Voice actors are still doing great like Nozawa's Screams being as energetic as it always was, Tanaka's Kuririn or Nakao's Freeza, it may not be as good as Z but for me they are better than dub.

[LuckyCat]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

[Ripper 30]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

What about Nozawa's Goku? Will you classify it as good or bad or Better Than Sean's Goku in Kai Dub?

[8000 Saiyan]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

Hiromi Tsuru kind of phoned it in the first episodes.

[ekrolo2]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

What about Nozawa's Goku? Will you classify it as good or bad or Better Than Sean's Goku in Kai Dub?

Nozawa was still good in Kai, she's almost entirely awful in Super. The only thing that remotely saves her is Black.

[MR.Mark]

Nozawa was still good in Kai, she's almost entirely awful in Super. The only thing that remotely saves her is Black.

I wouldn't go entirely that far, but there's been some issues. The overlapping DADADADADADADA when Goku and Gohan were fighting was a problem, seemed like there was a lack on her part to differentiate her characters there, battle screams or not, it just didn't sound good. That scene will definitely be topped in the dub needless to say.

[ekrolo2]

Nozawa was still good in Kai, she's almost entirely awful in Super. The only thing that remotely saves her is Black.

I wouldn't go entirely that far, but there's been some issues. The overlapping DADADADADADADA when Goku and Gohan were fighting was a problem, seemed like there was a lack on her part to differentiate her characters there, battle screams or not, it just didn't sound good. That scene will definitely be topped in the dub needless to say.

I'm not bothered by that so much as I am Goku sounding exactly the same tone wise no matter what's happening. He'll have the same inflated, stupidly happy voice regardless if you show him mutilated road kill or a cookie.

[8000 Saiyan]

Nozawa might not be in her prime anymore, but I wouldn't call her performance in Super awful. She's still fine despite some issues.

[The gr]

I don't understand the hate on nozawa performance on dbs,sure her scream were annoying in the tag match other than that she is still a fine va after all these years

[DragonBallKing]

I don't understand the hate on nozawa performance on dbs,sure her scream were annoying in the tag match other than that she is still a fine va after all these years

Her voice has just gotten scratchier and she can't scream as good anymore but she's great for being 80, I think fewer people would have issues with her Goku If the character didn't scream so much.

[MR.Mark]

I wouldn't go entirely that far, but there's been some issues. The overlapping DADADADADADADA when Goku and Gohan were fighting was a problem, seemed like there was a lack on her part to differentiate her characters there, battle screams or not, it just didn't sound good. That scene will definitely be topped in the dub needless to say.

I'm not bothered by that so much as I am Goku sounding exactly the same tone wise no matter what's happening. He'll have the same inflated, stupidly happy voice regardless if you show him mutilated road kill or a cookie.

Really? I don't recall Goku having a happy tone when Black told him he killed ChiChi and Goten for instance.

[DragonBallKing]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

Whats going on with Wakamoto, these days he sounds like a parody of his 90's voice.

[8000 Saiyan]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

Whats going on with Wakamoto, these days he sounds like a parody of his 90's voice.

Dude's getting old, much like Nozawa and the others. He still did a great job as Charles zi Britannia from Code Geass. In Kai, he completely phoned in his performance.

[DragonBallKing]

Wakamoto's the only one that sticks out as bad in Kai, then you have good replacements like Katsuyuki Konishi & company's Ginyu Forces, Hikaru Midorikawa's superb Tenshinhan, and Aya Hirano's passionate Dende which revitalize smaller roles.

Whats going on with Wakamoto, these days he sounds like a parody of his 90's voice.

Dude's getting old, much like Nozawa and the others. He still did a great job as Charles zi Britannia from Code Geass.

I don't think it's so much age, It just sounds like he's exaggerating his cell voice more in kai.