"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

Even when those standers cannot be applied to the original series ? I'm not even saying you should like Super here, dislike it all you want but you demanding stuff even the original you hold as a gold standered didn't have.

Good fights and writing are too much to ask for now ? If the original didn't have that it wouldn't have turned into the mega hit that it did.

Even though it's been 2 years, I'm still amazed at how low everyone's expectatins have dropped for this franchise. We're to the point where people are just happy to see moving characters on screen. What happened to all the crazy theories and wishes for the universes when the concept was first announced in BOG ? What happened to all the demands for better fights that were going on when Super started ?

[Lord Frieza]

Even when those standers cannot be applied to the original series ? I'm not even saying you should like Super here, dislike it all you want but you demanding stuff even the original you hold as a gold standered didn't have.

Good fights and writing are too much to ask for now ? If the original didn't have that it wouldn't have turned into the mega hit that it did.

The original was a mega hit in a time before we were born and when we were children. A completely different time when nothing like Dragon Ball existed then.

Let me give you an example form 10 years before dragon ball, Mazinger Z.


This was the face of Anime entertainment in the 70, its a classic that has lived on to this very day. But by today's standards, Mazinger Z is horribly dated. Its an impractical giant robot from the Super Robot era and its story is very monster of the week in style. The only thing to change over the years was that the Go Nagai was allowed to inject darker themes, which he is most well know for writing, into the series or allowed others to do so. But its still Mazinger Z.

Toriyama by comparison was writing Dragon Ball in his own style from the get go. Dragon Balls best writing is not even from the arcs we watched as kids, infact its best arc is the Red Ribbon arc and even that is not a master piece of writing. One Piece makes Dragon Ball's entire writing and development process look like a Joke. To a lesser extent so did Naruto, as both have far more detailed and though out plots and and developed their majority of their characters in far greater detail.

I'm not here to defend Supers flaws we all know them, but all the tournaments in dragon ball are suffer from the fodder factor. What I will say is that at least unlike other tournaments Gohan is is at least not wasting 3 to 4 episodes on a fighter he could beat this easily. That is for me, one of this arcs biggest strengths is that we are not wasting our time on lesser fighters for no reason. We get a quick fight thats a bit interesting and thats it. People want Opni to something more then...what exactly? Nam? Giron? Bactirian? Caterpi? Olibu? Maraikoh? He's in the exact same category as those fights and is better because the anime dose something subtle for once instread of beating us over the head with his backstory or making Gohan look like an emotional idiot.

As for the action it seems fine to me, but thats my opinion.

Even though it's been 2 years, I'm still amazed at how low everyone's expectatins have dropped for this franchise. We're to the point where people are just happy to see moving characters on screen. What happened to all the crazy theories and wishes for the universes when the concept was first announced in BOG ? What happened to all the demands for better fights that were going on when Super started ?

My standards never dropped at all. I walked into Super with an open mind and realistic expectations and I have loved from almost start to finish while excepting its flaw.

You seem to have walked in demanding stuff of the series and expecting it to conform to what you wanted, which it could not and never would.

[emperior]

About the mortal stronger than a Hakaishin, I think he isn't Jiren because, as a reddit user pointed out, Beerus was surprised U11 had someone like Toppo. It also seems like Beerus already knew of the strongest mortal, because he didn't react at all when Whis mentioned him.
It really seems like that mortal was mentioned because he will appear in the future, he will probably be an antagonist/rival after the ToP.

[sintzu]

The original was a mega hit in a time before we were born and when we were children. A completely different time when nothing like Dragon Ball existed then.

You seem to have walked in demanding stuff of the series and expecting it to conform to what you wanted, which it could not and never would.

It continued to be a hit years after it was over. To this day you have modern Shonen compared to the original DB. To say it was just successful back then and because there was nothing like it is just selling it short.

You mean to be like other part of the franchise ? never mind that, I just want it to be like older parts of Super itself like the u6 and Black arcs. Let me guess, wanting it to be like it was a year ago is also too unrealistic right ? Can we hold it to any standard at all or do we have to accept everything it does just because it has DB and Toriyama's name on it ?

[precita]

Literally the fights in Super are better than all the non-final battle fights in DBZ.

They're fast paced, to the point, and don't drag on for multiple eps much. Look at Babidi's henchmen fights in the Buu arc. Did Pui Pui and Yakon need entire episodes for their fights? No, but that's just how Toei padded DBZ back then.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

About the mortal stronger than a Hakaishin, I think he isn't Jiren because, as a reddit user pointed out, Beerus was surprised U11 had someone like Toppo. It also seems like Beerus already knew of the strongest mortal, because he didn't react at all when Whis mentioned him.
It really seems like that mortal was mentioned because he will appear in the future, he will probably be an antagonist/rival after the ToP.

Except Whis answered to the specific question from Goku if they stand a chance in the ToP, Whis answer doesn't make sense if the person isn't from a competing universe.

[sintzu]

Look at Babidi's henchmen fights in the Buu arc. Did Pui Pui and Yakon need entire episodes for their fights ?

Z was based off a weekly manga so although it was slow during some parts (and unwatcable at others), that's something that happened with most manga based anime.

What's Super's excuse ? the show has been dragging for a long time now. It took forever to get to the tournament only for it to be slow, The Black arc slowed down at certain points and repeated others like the heroes going to the future twice only to lose both times, the small filler arcs between the main ones and the movie retellings.

[HybridSaiyan]

Literally the fights in Super are better than all the non-final battle fights in DBZ.

They're fast paced, to the point, and don't drag on for multiple eps much. Look at Babidi's henchmen fights in the Buu arc. Did Pui Pui and Yakon need entire episodes for their fights? No, but that's just how Toei padded DBZ back then.

What was so bad about the Vegeta and Pui Pui fight? I was entertained throughout it all. "I don't even feel it" quote along with the arrogant jogging. Absolutely brilliant.

[Lord Frieza]

The original was a mega hit in a time before we were born and when we were children. A completely different time when nothing like Dragon Ball existed then.

You seem to have walked in demanding stuff of the series and expecting it to conform to what you wanted, which it could not and never would.

It continued to be a hit years after it was over. To this day you have modern Shonen compared to the original DB. To say it was just successful back then and because there was nothing like it is just selling it short.

You mean to be like other part of the franchise ? never mind that, I just want it to be like older parts of Super itself like the u6 and Black arcs. Let me guess, wanting it to be like it was a year ago is also too unrealistic right ? Can we hold it to any standard at all or do we have to accept everything it does just because it has DB and Toriyama's name on it ?

To the first part No, no it would not. Dragon Ball had the benefit of being first and setting the standards, it was also not the only one as many people seem to down play one of Dragon Ball's biggest rivals Saint Seiya, which infuanced the entire way anime characters are designed, but like wise has a very dated style of story telling.

I'm not down playing Dragon Ball greatness but there is no denying that if it was published in this day and age it would be torn to pieces. Just like Mazinger Z would be be, as Saint Seiya. Saying it would not be is an unrealistic view point. History belongs to the winners and Dragon Ball came first, thats a fact.

To your second question, no it not unrealistic to want things to be like the passed, but what you have to be realistic about is "will it be?" and to prepare yourslef for the fact that its not going to be everything you want.. For another example close to my heart...Guyver.



This was my first anime series and it had a remake in 2005. I love both series but the remake had its issues. Animation styles have changed and budgets are different...



Ones an OVA series the other at TV series so one must sacrifice the time and buildup the former would have used to build tension. There's less blood and gore, the art style's has changed and the old voice actor never came back. While it did a lot right, it had its flaws. Many of which came from a changes of time. But it also fixed a lot of the first story arcs major issues to.

This is not to defense Super's flaws or to make you like it, but to display that things change, other stuff happens in the world that have inpacts, different people, techniques and priorities are at play. So the series could never, ever have been everything you wanted, or even close.

Now you free to dislike it but and by all means critic its flaws but there is also my point is Super was never going to live up to your expectations, especially since they were so high. Wanting it to be is not a bad thing but you have to be realistic to. Super's entire production, even on the part of Tori and Toyo is a mess in many ways but also has more long term planning then most of Dragon Ball ever had. There are modern anime industry issue to take into account. And sadley many fans just got their hopes way to high, to the point of demanding stuff that was not even in the series the love so much.

[Shinda Forever]

Hit wasn't nerfed, the anime just overpowered him which is nothing new.

The problem is they overpowered him AND underpowered Dyspo with his initial showing. Which makes things seem terrible. It would've been different if dyspos speed completely helped him dominate that alien. But he just came across as helpless without Toppo.

The problem are the writers. You say they made him "too strong" in the Champa arc, but now they have to make him weak for whatever reason. How does this not bug people? They screwed things up and people are essentially defending it for whatever reason. Why can't people just acknowledge they mess up? A lot?

They didn't nerf Hit. Dyspo is just a bad match-up for Hit since Dyspo has a technique which renders Hit's Time-skip useless.

Wrong. Another pride trooper is immobilizing Hitto with ropes while Dyspo attacks him, therefore, Dyspo's speed doesn't render
Hitto's Time-skip useless.

[Lord Frieza]

The problem is they overpowered him AND underpowered Dyspo with his initial showing. Which makes things seem terrible. It would've been different if dyspos speed completely helped him dominate that alien. But he just came across as helpless without Toppo.

The problem are the writers. You say they made him "too strong" in the Champa arc, but now they have to make him weak for whatever reason. How does this not bug people? They screwed things up and people are essentially defending it for whatever reason. Why can't people just acknowledge they mess up? A lot?

They didn't nerf Hit. Dyspo is just a bad match-up for Hit since Dyspo has a technique which renders Hit's Time-skip useless.

Wrong. Another pride trooper is immobilizing Hitto with ropes while Dyspo attacks him, therefore, Dyspo's speed doesn't render
Hitto's Time-skip useless.

That appeires to happen post Goku jumping in and going SSG but we'll see. Until proven otherwise however we have to go by the info given.

[Basako]

Good fights and writing are too much to ask for now ? If the original didn't have that it wouldn't have turned into the mega hit that it did.

Even though it's been 2 years, I'm still amazed at how low everyone's expectatins have dropped for this franchise. We're to the point where people are just happy to see moving characters on screen. What happened to all the crazy theories and wishes for the universes when the concept was first announced in BOG ? What happened to all the demands for better fights that were going on when Super started ?

No, I don't see it like you do. Characters are not just moving on screen.

In the first half we had two fights simultaneously, 17 and Ribrianne and Goku and Rozzie, and mixing up in two points. All organicly, 17 intervined because he saw the girl was using against Goku the same thing Piccolo used against him, so he went to help, it's a team battle. Not that Goku needed it, in my opinion, but that was what 17 thought. Goku overcame the strategy Rozzie was using against him. 17 and Brianne, we don't know who is strongest yet, they are both strong. Jimizu comes and takes them away, which is fine, because they have to resist as much as possible and they didn't have a chance against Goku and 17 together, at least Rozzie, who had already lost.

The second part we had Gohan against Botamo first, ok, this fight wasn't impressive, but it wasn't bad, Gohan takes Botamo out by moving him inch by inch and a final Kamehameha. Piccolo's fight was mostly off screen, but at least they showed how he wins, using the same strategy he used against 17 long ago, but this time it worked. It was short, but the episode had to be mostly for Gohan, so it was fine. Opni was a surprisse, the man was in pair to Gohan in base, or even better than him, mostly when he started using his energy dividing technique, so Gohan couldn't sense him. But Gohan is no fool, he goes ultimate and lets Opni hit him, he can resist his hits in his full power and doesn't have to sense him anymore, just wait till he is hit. So Opni out with some nice kicks and a Kamehameha again.

We have the erasure of universe 10, it did affect me, I mean, it's Gowasu and I was starting to like Rumosh hitting his guys with the trump. It was a quite funny universe in general. We have the detail of Gohan seeing that Opni had a family like his, putting him in this difficult dilema. Well, he has no choice, he has to save his universe, but it's totally in character that the struggles the most.

The animation is on point and the writting is good too. This is just a begining / middle episode of the tournament. We have still the big things to come. For start, next episode looks to be one of them. Dyspo, Hit and Goku, three top guys.

[Zamasu55]

How is Dyspo being wasted when he's fighting one of the strongest fighters in the tournament? You don't even know the guy and you're all over the dude.

Wasted -> making him fight for one episode.

We have no idea how many episodes Dyspo will fight for. Everyone thought Toei had wasted the Universe 2 Yardrat, but they managed to utilize him very well in this episode.

I said he's wasted IF he falls off the ring next week.

[precita]

I notice the last other Pride trooper, the blue one is in this ep. You can bet he'll be knocked out in this episode leaving only the 3 most powerful Pride Troopers left.

[OverHeaven]

I notice the last other Pride trooper, the blue one is in this ep. You can bet he'll be knocked out in this episode leaving only the 3 most powerful Pride Troopers left.

I bet even Dyspo will get eliminated next episode unless someone saves him.

[Shinda Forever]

They didn't nerf Hit. Dyspo is just a bad match-up for Hit since Dyspo has a technique which renders Hit's Time-skip useless.

Wrong. Another pride trooper is immobilizing Hitto with ropes while Dyspo attacks him, therefore, Dyspo's speed doesn't render
Hitto's Time-skip useless.

That appeires to happen post Goku jumping in and going SSG but we'll see. Until proven otherwise however we have to go by the info given.

And what is the info given? In the preview for the next episode, it says that another universe 11 warrior joins Dyspo in fighting Hitto.

[Lord Frieza]

Wrong. Another pride trooper is immobilizing Hitto with ropes while Dyspo attacks him, therefore, Dyspo's speed doesn't render
Hitto's Time-skip useless.

That appeires to happen post Goku jumping in and going SSG but we'll see. Until proven otherwise however we have to go by the info given.

And what is the info given? In the preview for the next episode, it says that another universe 11 warrior joins Dyspo in fighting Hitto.

Ok your words confuse me? You know ere that info comes from, its from the episode preview we go this week. The sources say "Dyspo States he can counter the Time-Skip" and "Dyspo blocks hits movements with Bullets of Light and one sidedly pummels him"

No mention of Dyspo and team mate tie up Hit or Hit beaten by tag team. That combined with the fact that the other pride trooper is only present in shots with SSG Goku points to him showing up to give Dyspo back up.

Sorry but until the episode proves otherwise, Dyspo < Hit.

[GodKaio-Ken]

That appeires to happen post Goku jumping in and going SSG but we'll see. Until proven otherwise however we have to go by the info given.

And what is the info given? In the preview for the next episode, it says that another universe 11 warrior joins Dyspo in fighting Hitto.

Ok your words confuse me? You know ere that info comes from, its from the episode preview we go this week. The sources say "Dyspo States he can counter the Time-Skip" and "Dyspo blocks hits movements with Bullets of Light and one sidedly pummels him"

No mention of Dyspo and team mate tie up Hit or Hit beaten by tag team. That combined with the fact that the other pride trooper is only present in shots with SSG Goku points to him showing up to give Dyspo back up.

Sorry but until the episode proves otherwise, Dyspo < Hit.

Yeah, we will see next week. The preview doesnt make 8t very clear how much impact the other pride trooper really has. I'm guessing its a fairly even fight, Pride Trooper 2 comes giving them an advantage, then Goku comes.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Literally the fights in Super are better than all the non-final battle fights in DBZ.

They're fast paced, to the point, and don't drag on for multiple eps much. Look at Babidi's henchmen fights in the Buu arc. Did Pui Pui and Yakon need entire episodes for their fights? No, but that's just how Toei padded DBZ back then.

I'd say it's the other way around all the "final boss" fights in Super have been better than Z, except for maybe Vegeta in Saiyan arc that's debatable. The Freeza fight dragged on and on and on just became boring and tedious. Cell games went boring quick and ending with the super lame beam struggle, and Kid Buu was legitimately the worst he had no personality and it was just boring when he could basically do everything and anything.

I think the pacing for the tournament is just fine, if it went by too quick people will be complaining "we didn't spend too long on the the other fighters why waste time building them up" no win situation by the looks of it.

Unrelated but the more people complain about Super yet continue to watch and support it makes me happy, complain all you like but supporting the show is all that matters and that's telling Toei you like it!

[The gr]

This is a fine screenshots of super saiyan god in colorsI just like the fact this tournament remains unpredictable,a huge positive in spite of its shortcomings