Unpopular DB opinions

[Ripper 30]

Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans > Baby

Not because of it being GT

why tho?

[MaskedRider]

Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans > Baby

Not because of it being GT

why tho?

If hypothetically Super MUST incorporate a Tsufurujin revenge story I would want it to follow plan to eradicate the Saiyans, of course tweaked; no ghost warriors except Dr. Raichi, better designed and more interesting henchmen to guard the destron gas machines, replace Future Trunks with Goten and Trunks to fight a henchmen that can take on the both of them that allows them to execute team work. Not as long as a typical arc but a short one such as Copy Vegeta or Hit. PTETS suffers from being tied to a video game.

What I love about Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans is that it was to the point, Dende informing Goku that a dangerous substance that can harm him and the inhabitants of Earth appeared. Allowing characters to individually deal with a machine on their own and all of them coming together to destroy the last machine. The gas handicapping the fighters not being able to use their ki at the beginning was a good concept as it forced them to fight more tactically until a machine was destroyed for them to slowly build ki back. King Kai's involvement is much welcomed and informing Goku about the history of the relationship between Tsufurujins and the Saiyans makes Dr. Raichi more sympathetic than Baby and having Vegeta throw in that line about how they were treated like slaves throws a wrench at Raichi receiving empathy and makes you wonder what happened.

I appreciate the dynamic between the hunt for the black star dragon balls and Baby's story but it doesn't do it for me because of my disdain for the concept of the black star dragon balls in the first place. Baby's cause would have been more sympathetic if not for his whole universal Tsufurujin dominance, how does that work? Yipee civic nationalism where human and Saiyan are pretending to be people who they are not. With Raichi its at least understandable to attack Earth in such a way when you cannot physically remove Saiyans yourself and that is all he left it at, Hatchiyack was a dangerous monster to the universe because of his power, not a dangerous Tsufurujin looking to repopulate all over which just makes them look more bad than Baby probably intended his people to look.

You know what PTETS doesn't have? The entire Giru betrayal but JK not really, Sugoroku Space, Baby HAVING to use the black star balls after watching our heroes gather them, substituting Earth as a moon, great apes, SSJ4, Majuub, Piccolo dying .You know what it has? Being able to tell a Tsufurujin revenge story without all of that and Future Trunks using an icicle as a sword. I also prefer Hatchiyack's more brute power tanking Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo at once versus Baby's more sneaking cut and take over a body plan - not that its bad but that is me personally.

So I don't have to double post: GT isn't good concepts bad execution, its bad concepts and bad execution with only personal appreciations

[ABED]

its bad concepts and bad execution with only personal appreciations

What bad concepts? Concepts are rarely that bad, it's almost always execution that's the issue.

[Noah]

Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans > Baby

Now, that's an unpopular opinion.

Cause for me PTETS always felt like a usual 90's DBZ Movie for me even tho it was a OVA. The story could be worked better and Hatchiyack was defeated way too easily. What I liked about the Baby arc is that he managed to control everyone and use their power against Goku and if wasn't for Kibitoshin, he would succeed.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans > Baby

Now, that's an unpopular opinion.

Cause for me PTETS always felt like a usual 90's DBZ Movie for me even tho it was a OVA. The story could be worked better and Hatchiyack was defeated way too easily. What I liked about the Baby arc is that he managed to control everyone and use their power against Goku and if wasn't for Kibitoshin, he would succeed.

WOAH NELLY! Him NOT being a useless lump? LOL! Toei now you have no excuse for Yamcha!

[Noah]

WOAH NELLY! Him NOT being a useless lump? LOL! Toei now you have no excuse for Yamcha!

Er... What? Sorry but I don't know what you meant by saying that.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm genuinely and truly astonished. No where in the original Dragon Ball manga has he ever displayed competency! Kaoishin is truly the most pathetic character.

Ok I guess Toei did give Yamcha some cool moments and fights. No "He's the reason the bad guys plan was foiled" though.



SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

[MaskedRider]

its bad concepts and bad execution with only personal appreciations

What bad concepts? Concepts are rarely that bad, it's almost always execution that's the issue.

You right, I suppose its how I was thinking of each arc being worded in my head because you can word Baby simply as "Tsufurujin revenge" and that's good enough.

[DragonBallKing]

I think toriyama's art style was perfect by the 23rd TB/beginning of Z and prefer it over the later art styles.

[Ripper 30]

I think toriyama's art style was perfect by the 23rd TB/beginning of Z and prefer it over the later art styles.

Yes, the round style was good but from Namek Arc it started getting angular.

[Michsi]

I think toriyama's art style was perfect by the 23rd TB/beginning of Z and prefer it over the later art styles.

Yes, the round style was good but from Namek Arc it started getting angular.

I prefer the rounder style myself, as it also seemed the most expressive, but I always thought he hit a perfect balance between angular and rounded in the Namek arc. It's only later that they become so angular.

[ABED]

I think toriyama's art style was perfect by the 23rd TB/beginning of Z and prefer it over the later art styles.

I wouldn't consider that an unpopular opinion. I see that sentiment all the time even in the 90s.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

If hypothetically Super MUST incorporate a Tsufurujin revenge story I would want it to follow plan to eradicate the Saiyans, of course tweaked; no ghost warriors except Dr. Raichi, better designed and more interesting henchmen to guard the destron gas machines, replace Future Trunks with Goten and Trunks to fight a henchmen that can take on the both of them that allows them to execute team work. Not as long as a typical arc but a short one such as Copy Vegeta or Hit. PTETS suffers from being tied to a video game.

But nothing in the plot had anything too do wit the Tuffle lore whatsoever. It was just the random origin for a character. Why even have the "destron gas"? What relevance did that even have? Why would he even have gases to pollute the Earth? The plot of the PTETS literally had nothing to do with either race or their backstory. If you take out everything that made PTETS what it was specifically different to the other movies, how would it be preferable? All you kept was the Dr. Myu equivalent who had no real plan, and the drone Hachiyack who has no personality at all, even less so than Broly. The dumb generators and typical ghost warrior thing was what specified the plot more than anything else in it.

King Kai's involvement is much welcomed and informing Goku about the history of the relationship between Tsufurujins and the Saiyans makes Dr. Raichi more sympathetic than Baby and having Vegeta throw in that line about how they were treated like slaves throws a wrench at Raichi receiving empathy and makes you wonder what happened.

Baby made that point multiple times about how much he hated King Vegeta. The Baby arc was actually personally lead along with the Oozaru being essential to hammer in the point an actual focus of what Baby hated. Goku turning into one and SS4's personality changes was the exact weight to his hate of Saiyans. The Earth replacing the moon was also logical and symbolic for Goku & Pan. There was more depth to Baby's ambition, as well other than just general revenge which is often made very petty in this series. PTETS on the other hand didn't hold any relevance or logic to it at all, even in-universe. It was a generic filler-like storyline and too impersonal for the protagonists to make a difference to them from another enemy. Hatchuyack was literally just an OP henchman with a quickly exploited weakness (rare for this series). There is nothing in PTETS that could possibly make it the better story. It was as generic as the early DBZ movie plots come. What it sounds like you wanted was exactly what the Tree of Might & World's Strongest did.

[MaskedRider]

But nothing in the plot had anything too do wit the Tuffle lore whatsoever. It was just the random origin for a character. Why even have the "destron gas"? What relevance did that even have? Why would he even have gases to pollute the Earth? The plot of the PTETS literally had nothing to do with either race or their backstory. If you take out everything that made PTETS what it was specifically different to the other movies, how would it be preferable? All you kept was the Dr. Myu equivalent who had no real plan, and the drone Hachiyack who has no personality at all, even less so than Broly. The dumb generators and typical ghost warrior thing was what specified the plot more than anything else in it.

The destron gas is okay with me because Dr. Raichi is not physically able to remove the Saiyans, you saw how easy Vegeta decimated him; his intellect allows him to attempt to kill off any remaining Saiyan. Gohan makes it a point with understanding his rage but it doesn't mean any of them will allow him to take Earth out because of his extreme measure necessary to ensure complete Saiyan extinction (which is why the gas in the first place) which makes sense as I mentioned his physical state. The story is simple, sure its not as grand of a goal as bringing back the planet, the "people" and then universal domination but I prefer Dr. Raichi's satisfaction knowing there is no more Saiyans than what I called Baby's civic nationalism where he had individuals who weren't truly Tsufurujin pretending to be one, it doesn't sit with me knowing they aren't genetically authentic.

I'm not sure what you mean by it had nothing to do with either race's backstory? Saiyans landed on Planet Plant, the Tsufurujin allowed them to settle on the land and both races lived together until King Vegeta led the Saiyans to attack the Tsufurujins. Dr. Raichi talks about the unforgivable acts the Saiyans enacted but Vegeta throws in a comment about how the Tsufurujins treated the Saiyans like slaves. I can agree with it not being expanded upon making it poor in quality but as I said, this suffers from being tied to a video game.

Baby made that point multiple times about how much he hated King Vegeta. The Baby arc was actually personally lead along with the Oozaru being essential to hammer in the point an actual focus of what Baby hated. Goku turning into one and SS4's personality changes was the exact weight to his hate of Saiyans. The Earth replacing the moon was also logical and symbolic for Goku & Pan. There was more depth to Baby's ambition, as well other than just general revenge which is often made very petty in this series. PTETS on the other hand didn't hold any relevance or logic to it at all, even in-universe. It was a generic filler-like storyline and too impersonal for the protagonists to make a difference to them from another enemy. Hatchuyack was literally just an OP henchman with a quickly exploited weakness (rare for this series). There is nothing in PTETS that could possibly make it the better story. It was as generic as the early DBZ movie plots come. What it sounds like you wanted was exactly what the Tree of Might & World's Strongest did.

You're not wrong, its just my preference as this is the unpopular opinion thread. I understood all those points but it felt 'extra' to me like how we have RoF the movie and RoF the arc and one of them can tell what its needs to without involving Gotenks or Piccolo dying.

[DragonBallKing]

While I feel One Piece surpasses Dragon Ball in several areas like villains and world building, I still feel that Son Goku is a more interesting character than Luffy.

[Cure Dragon 255]

DUH! I bet even Eiichiro Oda feels that. He's a major Dragon Ball fan after all!

[ABED]

While I feel One Piece surpasses Dragon Ball in several areas like villains and world building, I still feel that Son Goku is a more interesting character than Luffy.

World building is overrated. I like the simplicity of DB's world.

[sintzu]

World building is overrated. I like the simplicity of DB's world.

Although when done right world building can be great, if done wrong it can end up messing everything up like things not getting the attention and development they deserve because the author being too focused on what comes next. This is what killed the amazing spider-man movies franchise.

I think one of the best things about DB is that each arc got Toriyama's full attention before he moved on to what came next. Although he had plans before moving on like thinking about Namek while writing the 23rd tenkaichi, he made sure it didn't get in the way and waited till he was completely done with what he was doing before moving on to it.

[ekrolo2]

World building is overrated. I like the simplicity of DB's world.

Although when done right world building can be great, if done wrong it can end up messing everything up like things not getting the attention and development they deserve because the author being too focused on what comes next. This is what killed the amazing spider-man movies franchise.

I think one of the best things about DB is that each arc got Toriyama's full attention before he moved on to what came next. Although he had plans before moving on like thinking about Namek while writing the 23rd tenkaichi, he made sure it didn't get in the way and waited till he was completely done with what he was doing before moving on to it.

Toriyama's thing has its own issues like if how he introduces a concept in one arc, count on him to drop it for the next one and never bring it back. Remember how the only setting besides Earth that we see in the original manga is a boring ass Namek with nothing on it and that's our space adventure for the franchise until GT & Super? That's a bit arse no matter what.

[sintzu]

Toriyama's thing has its own issues like if how he introduces a concept in one arc, count on him to drop it for the next one and never bring it back. Remember how the only setting besides Earth that we see in the original manga is a boring ass Namek with nothing on it and that's our space adventure for the franchise until GT & Super.

Him not using a certain concept again doesn't make his writing style flawed. If he doesn't have any ideas for something isn't it a good thing that he didn't try to force himself to write something that ends up not living up to what came before it ? if he couldn't top Namek then I think it was a good thing he moved onto something else.