Truly Increasing the Stakes & Zamasu's Grand Return

[omaro34]

The ToP does have tension in the sense that for those that don't look at spoilers they have no clue who's going to fight who and who's getting eliminated. It also has tension for people who are invested in Universes not including 7 as their future is uncertain although its likely they'll be wished back later.

Outside of that, there isn't much tension in this current arc for a few reasons:
1) We are in the 10 year time frame, and we already know that the 28th Worlds Martial arts Tournament that occurred in Z has yet to occur in the timeline the writers have set Super in which is after Kid Buu's defeat.

2) The Dragonballs can undue all of the damage done, which can be said for every arc in the series.

Personally, after the gang visits Universe 6's Saiyan homeworld and that arc is taken care of, I think they would skip ahead after the 10 year time frame.

For all of GT's flaws one thing I like that they tried to do was give the heroes a severe consequence for relying on the Dragonballs too much. Death is too cheap. They should bring that particular concept back, or at the very least make the Dragonballs inert for good before a large battle, so that the Z fighter's that die would be gone for good, but they died a heroes death.

They shouldn't do this until Super has reached its limit which isn't anytime soon, but to end the series that would be great.

Bringing back Zamasu and him getting a ring of the fourth dimension or something like that along with his huge army of demons invading Earth would be epic. It's a chance to use the entire Z fighter roster one last time, and the ones that die will be gone for good.

And one thing Super is good at, is building and building before the main event. There would be so much hype around this, and the tension would be way more than what it is now.

Thoughts?

[GodKaio-Ken]

Only thing is I'm pretty sure between Jiren and UI Goku they could tie Immortal Zamasu into a pretzel, mafuba him, and put him in the bottom of the ocean without breaking a sweat.

[omaro34]

Only thing is I'm pretty sure between Jiren and UI Goku they could tie Immortal Zamasu into a pretzel, mafuba him, and put him in the bottom of the ocean without breaking a sweat.

Who's to say they couldn't give him a power up? I mentioned the ring of the fourth dimension which could give him indescribable power and the ability to rip through time and destroy many unseen timelines. He can recruit evil fighters to join his army. This ring of the fourth dimension also could have every planet in the multiverse's history of events that has occurred and Zamasu can narrow the search down to "Earth" and "Universe 7", hence learning a lot more about Goku, the guy he hates the most and using that knowledge to his advantage. Perhaps go to other unseen timelines and recruit Goku's old villains? This ring of 4th dimension could be the most feared object in all the multiverses. Kind of like an Xenoverse concept.

That's just one example I thought of. Hundreds of other ways to write it. It's not hard.

[Asura]

No thanks. Super would then have two arcs dedicated to existing villains returning. New villains are more interesting. Plus if anything I'd rather see Goku Black again, not the much more boring and uglier Zamasu.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Only thing is I'm pretty sure between Jiren and UI Goku they could tie Immortal Zamasu into a pretzel, mafuba him, and put him in the bottom of the ocean without breaking a sweat.

Who's to say they couldn't give him a power up? I mentioned the ring of the fourth dimension which could give him indescribable power and the ability to rip through time and destroy many unseen timelines. He can recruit evil fighters to join his army. This ring of the fourth dimension also could have every planet in the multiverse's history of events that has occurred and Zamasu can narrow the search down to "Earth" and "Universe 7", hence learning a lot more about Goku, the guy he hates the most and using that knowledge to his advantage. Perhaps go to other unseen timelines and recruit Goku's old villains? This ring of 4th dimension could be the most feared object in all the multiverses. Kind of like an Xenoverse concept.

That's just one example I thought of. Hundreds of other ways to write it. It's not hard.

I'm not saying it can't happen, it's actually something I've thought about too as interesting. A wish worded in a way that has dire consequence. I'm just a little tired of random power ups is all which is why I called it my drawback really. They could write him stronger but hopefully in a way that makes sense.

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu's potential return in a later arc in Dragon Ball Super is one of the most popular fan theories and i could see that happen, given the fact that the character is one of the most succesful villains in the show and is already a fan-favourite (despite the fact he was introduced just a year ago!). I am certain we have not seen the last of Zamasu yet, a Supreme Kai who was so resourceful, smart and patient that indirectly caused the erasure of an entire timeline and even became 'Order' and 'Justice'.

There are several ways they could bring him back:

- Infinite Zamasu was spreading throughout realities, so perhaps a fraction of his essence survived in an unseen timeline;
- The Immortality granted to Future Zamasu by the Super Dragon Balls (created by the Dragon God Zalama) cannot be reversed by Zen-Oh;
- Infinite Zamasu's essence has been able to possess Future Zen-Oh at the last moment, avoiding annihlation.

All of the above could possibly be seen as 'silly' explanations, but Dragon Ball Super is full of inconsistent writing and plot devices anyway, therefore i am more than willing to have a weak explanation behind Zamasu's radiant return if, in return, we get to have a fantastic arc revolving around one of Dragon Ball Super's most iconic characters ever.

Zamasu's return is blatantly requested by a clear part of the community, there are theories about this subject on all social medias, there is the -demand- to see this character again in the future. And in the Anime continuity, Fused Zamasu was the fusion between two official Supreme Kais, therefore there is no way he could possibly defuse (he has no time limit), so Zamasu would return as a single entity blessed with Immortality and endless power and potential.

[omaro34]

No thanks. Super would then have two arcs dedicated to existing villains returning. New villains are more interesting. Plus if anything I'd rather see Goku Black again, not the much more boring and uglier Zamasu.

You won't see Goku Black without seeing Zamasu. I honestly believe its all about execution. Zamasu was developed really well, and he's one of the few villains Goku and co couldn't really beat. They had to take the easy way out and call Zeno (yeah Zamasu was immortal but they have faced immortals opponents before including filler). Plus I'm not saying he should immediately return, let this occur when Super is close to its end.

Perhaps the Grand Priest then? What are your thoughts on what I mentioned about raising the stakes to the point where the Dragonballs are usless and if a Z fighter dies in battle they can't come back?

[omaro34]

Zamasu's potential return in a later arc in Dragon Ball Super is one of the most popular fan theories and i could see that happen, given the fact that the character is one of the most succesful villains in the show and is already a fan-favourite (despite the fact he was introduced just a year ago!). I am certain we have not seen the last of Zamasu yet, a Supreme Kai who was so resourceful, smart and patient that indirectly caused the erasure of an entire timeline and even became 'Order' and 'Justice'.

There are several ways they could bring him back:

- Infinite Zamasu was spreading throughout realities, so perhaps a fraction of his essence survived in an unseen timeline;
- The Immortality granted to Future Zamasu by the Super Dragon Balls (created by the Dragon God Zalama) cannot be reversed by Zen-Oh;
- Infinite Zamasu's essence has been able to possess Future Zen-Oh at the last moment, avoiding annihlation.

All of the above could possibly be seen as 'silly' explanations, but Dragon Ball Super is full of inconsistent writing and plot devices anyway, therefore i am more than willing to have a weak explanation behind Zamasu's radiant return if, in return, we get to have a fantastic arc revolving around one of Dragon Ball Super's most iconic characters ever.

Zamasu's return is blatantly requested by a clear part of the community, there are theories about this subject on all social medias, there is the -demand- to see this character again in the future. And in the Anime continuity, Fused Zamasu was the fusion between two official Supreme Kais, therefore there is no way he could possibly defuse (he has no time limit), so Zamasu would return as a single entity blessed with Immortality and endless power and potential.

I do hope he returns, but in a way that uses the entire Z cast.

In terms of developing villains Zamasu and someone like Kid Buu don't even compare. His hatred for ningen was slow but realistic and well written.

[namekiansaiyan]

I do hope he returns, but in a way that uses the entire Z cast.

I see you have started to believe again already.

[Asura]

No thanks. Super would then have two arcs dedicated to existing villains returning. New villains are more interesting. Plus if anything I'd rather see Goku Black again, not the much more boring and uglier Zamasu.

You won't see Goku Black without seeing Zamasu. I honestly believe its all about execution. Zamasu was developed really well, and he's one of the few villains Goku and co couldn't really beat. They had to take the easy way out and call Zeno (yeah Zamasu was immortal but they have faced immortals opponents before including filler). Plus I'm not saying he should immediately return, let this occur when Super is close to its end.

Perhaps the Grand Priest then? What are your thoughts on what I mentioned about raising the stakes to the point where the Dragonballs are usless and if a Z fighter dies in battle they can't come back?

"Raising the stakes" is what caused the catastrophic disaster that was Episode 67, so no, I'd rather they just stick to the course and follow the formula. Also, what immortal opponents are you referring to without including filler? The only immortal opponent they ever faced was Garlic Jr. which was a movie and filler.

[BWri]

I do hope he returns, but in a way that uses the entire Z cast.

I see you have started to believe again already.

They'll all get to use their signature attacks but that's all, or maybe only two of them will get used kinda/sorta properly while the rest are used as pointless fodder for the main villain. Of course Vegeta will fight the big bad and lose spectacularly and Goku will unlock a new form and likely still lose. Really the only question here is if Goku will actually win or lose. We already now how the rest will happen. DB has a formula and bah gawd it sticks to it

[Ringworm128]

We've just had Zamasu. Honestly if there's one villain I'd like to see return it's Cell. His hatred of Gohan for beating him in his perfect form could make for some good drama.

[omaro34]

No thanks. Super would then have two arcs dedicated to existing villains returning. New villains are more interesting. Plus if anything I'd rather see Goku Black again, not the much more boring and uglier Zamasu.

You won't see Goku Black without seeing Zamasu. I honestly believe its all about execution. Zamasu was developed really well, and he's one of the few villains Goku and co couldn't really beat. They had to take the easy way out and call Zeno (yeah Zamasu was immortal but they have faced immortals opponents before including filler). Plus I'm not saying he should immediately return, let this occur when Super is close to its end.

Perhaps the Grand Priest then? What are your thoughts on what I mentioned about raising the stakes to the point where the Dragonballs are usless and if a Z fighter dies in battle they can't come back?

"Raising the stakes" is what caused the catastrophic disaster that was Episode 67, so no, I'd rather they just stick to the course and follow the formula. Also, what immortal opponents are you referring to without including filler? The only immortal opponent they ever faced was Garlic Jr. which was a movie and filler.

I just want them to get out of this ten year time frame, that way we can watch the show without a clue as to what happens to a certain character and the 28th Budokai is not available as a future point that we can connect the dots with. I didn't think episode 67 was "catastrophic" as you put it.

I meant Garlic Jr, I shouldn't have used plural.

I know you like Caulifla and after the tournament when U6 is wished back you will see Caulifla interacting with Goku and ChiChi will freak out.

[omaro34]

We've just had Zamasu. Honestly if there's one villain I'd like to see return it's Cell. His hatred of Gohan for beating him in his perfect form could make for some good drama.

Cell already achieved his perfect form which was his main goal and still lost. I say he served his purpose.

[omaro34]

I do hope he returns, but in a way that uses the entire Z cast.

I see you have started to believe again already.

pathetic i know. It's like me trying to turn on a car with no battery, and everytime I try it I expect a different result.

[MR.Mark]

Zamasu's potential return in a later arc in Dragon Ball Super is one of the most popular fan theories and i could see that happen, given the fact that the character is one of the most succesful villains in the show and is already a fan-favourite (despite the fact he was introduced just a year ago!). I am certain we have not seen the last of Zamasu yet, a Supreme Kai who was so resourceful, smart and patient that indirectly caused the erasure of an entire timeline and even became 'Order' and 'Justice'.

He also was successful in permanently killing alternate timeline versions of characters we know and love, that's a major victory for a DB villain.

I'd be down for at least one more go around with Zamasu. Nothing wrong with deviating from moving on to villain to villain in favor of recurring baddies if it's done well enough.

[avasatu]

No way. Demon or angel villains, please. And make the Pride Troopers and U6 guys part of the Z fighters!

[SupremeKai25]

I didn't think episode 67 was "catastrophic" as you put it.

It was not. Aside from the mediocre animation (i forgive them, the previous episode was astonishing from an animation standpoint), i absolutely adore the concept of Zamasu ascending to an even higher state of power, becoming the very concept of 'order' and 'justice' and merging with the Universe. This did not come out of nowhere, there was build-up to Zamasu's ascension; for example, when Goku Black opened a rift through time and space and claimed that his power had surpassed his own comprehension (just like Infinte Zamasu's energy was transcending time and space), or when Gowasu stated that Fused Zamasu's power had expanded -to no end- (as he was the fusion between the immortal Zamasu and the most powerful Goku Black). I mean, it took the Omni-king himself to finally put an end to Zamasu, who was spreading his influence to all corners of existence.

That uphill battle. That sense of sadness, of defeat. The protagonists were powerless, beaten and outsmarted by the villain, and they did not win in the end. That is something the Tournament of Power has failed to achieve so far.

He also was successful in permanently killing alternate timeline versions of characters we know and love, that's a major victory for a DB villain.

Yeah. Remember when Goku Black disintegrated Future Bulma - a character many loved - in the very first episode of the arc? That was crazy...

Plus, some are complaining that Zamasu was already the protagonist of a Dragon Ball Super's arc, yet forget Frieza has returned thrice...

But make sure to bring back Zamasu and leave the ridiculous Trunks and his thick plot armor out of the story.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm really not interested in Zamasu returning. He's had his moment in the sun, his character was as fleshed out as possible, it's time for new villain in the next major arc of Super.

And even if the show moves beyond the ten year period and takes place in the same region that GT did, tension will never be reach the same height it did from the King Piccolo arc to the Freeza arc because the cast have three sets of wish granting MacGuffins that can bail them out of anything. And two of those three sets of wish granting MacGuffins pretty much guarantee that none of the core cast can be killed off permanently, unless they die of natural causes. Tension and stakes are deader than disco in Dragon Ball.

[MR.Mark]

I think there's room for Zamasu's return, just not right now. As for stakes, you're totally right with all the DBs. The TOP arc deserves credit for really making us wonder just how the heros will get out of this one. Will we really see these other universes again? Will Zeno even allow universes to be brought back? etc.