How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
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How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
How will he fare Against Ultimate Gohan, Golden Freeza, SSB Vegeta and SSB Goku without his Time Skip?
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
At this stage, I'd personally put Hit among the likes of SSJB Goku/Vegeta, Golden Freeza and Ultimate Gohan. And without the Time-Skip I think he would fare decently against them.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Hit's strength is difficult to gauge due to his reliance on special abilities and techniques, rarely using the traditional method of hand-to-hand combat and opting to bypass his opponent entirely rather than try to match them in a dual of raw power & speed. If someone were to be in on how his tricks work then someone on the tier of Base Goku can dodge his casual hits, when Hit revs up the extent of his powers though is when it takes the tier of SSJ to match his attacks. The level of SSJG and beyond seems to be above Hit's ordinary attributes so its at that point that he spams his abilities and pushes them to their limit, putting him anywhere above SSJ but below SSJG. I'm guessing Hit qualifies in the SSJ2 or possibly SSJ3 tier of simple raw strength, pretty incredible for someone without any transformations or God Ki.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Well Hit was able to take hits [heh] from SSB Goku and Jiren. I doubt a SSj3 level guy would be able to do thattheherodjl wrote:Hit's strength is difficult to gauge due to his reliance on special abilities and techniques, rarely using the traditional method of hand-to-hand combat and opting to bypass his opponent entirely rather than try to match them in a dual of raw power & speed. If someone were to be in on how his tricks work then someone on the tier of Base Goku can dodge his casual hits, when Hit revs up the extent of his powers though is when it takes the tier of SSJ to match his attacks. The level of SSJG and beyond seems to be above Hit's ordinary attributes so its at that point that he spams his abilities and pushes them to their limit, putting him anywhere above SSJ but below SSJG. I'm guessing Hit qualifies in the SSJ2 or possibly SSJ3 tier of simple raw strength, pretty incredible for someone without any transformations or God Ki.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
They were holding back.Professor Freeza wrote:Well Hit was able to take hits [heh] from SSB Goku and Jiren. I doubt a SSj3 level guy would be able to do thattheherodjl wrote:Hit's strength is difficult to gauge due to his reliance on special abilities and techniques, rarely using the traditional method of hand-to-hand combat and opting to bypass his opponent entirely rather than try to match them in a dual of raw power & speed. If someone were to be in on how his tricks work then someone on the tier of Base Goku can dodge his casual hits, when Hit revs up the extent of his powers though is when it takes the tier of SSJ to match his attacks. The level of SSJG and beyond seems to be above Hit's ordinary attributes so its at that point that he spams his abilities and pushes them to their limit, putting him anywhere above SSJ but below SSJG. I'm guessing Hit qualifies in the SSJ2 or possibly SSJ3 tier of simple raw strength, pretty incredible for someone without any transformations or God Ki.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Hit can skip time and store it to greatly heighten his senses and prep himself for incoming blows, its why he could survive battling guys with power tens of times greater than his own along with the fact that they weren't fighting to kill him. His own raw strength isn't particularly phenomenal among guys like SSJB Goku & Jiren, Hit makes up for this by combining his strength with a myriad of space/time abilities to get the jump on his opponent. His wins against Goku are just the result of Goku holding back to determine the scope of Hit's powers and how to get past them for fun, Jiren also entertained Hit's abilities to give him a fair chance until he used his real strength to overwhelm Hit.Professor Freeza wrote:Well Hit was able to take hits [heh] from SSB Goku and Jiren. I doubt a SSj3 level guy would be able to do thattheherodjl wrote:Hit's strength is difficult to gauge due to his reliance on special abilities and techniques, rarely using the traditional method of hand-to-hand combat and opting to bypass his opponent entirely rather than try to match them in a dual of raw power & speed. If someone were to be in on how his tricks work then someone on the tier of Base Goku can dodge his casual hits, when Hit revs up the extent of his powers though is when it takes the tier of SSJ to match his attacks. The level of SSJG and beyond seems to be above Hit's ordinary attributes so its at that point that he spams his abilities and pushes them to their limit, putting him anywhere above SSJ but below SSJG. I'm guessing Hit qualifies in the SSJ2 or possibly SSJ3 tier of simple raw strength, pretty incredible for someone without any transformations or God Ki.
I like Hit and I like how he strategizes with his more interesting abilities to add something unique to the table, but in DB fashion it is usually the fighter with greater strength & speed who wins. Hit can't defeat the cliches of Shonen at the end of the day.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
I REAAAAALY Doubt thatTheUltimateNinja wrote:They were holding back.Professor Freeza wrote:Well Hit was able to take hits [heh] from SSB Goku and Jiren. I doubt a SSj3 level guy would be able to do thattheherodjl wrote:Hit's strength is difficult to gauge due to his reliance on special abilities and techniques, rarely using the traditional method of hand-to-hand combat and opting to bypass his opponent entirely rather than try to match them in a dual of raw power & speed. If someone were to be in on how his tricks work then someone on the tier of Base Goku can dodge his casual hits, when Hit revs up the extent of his powers though is when it takes the tier of SSJ to match his attacks. The level of SSJG and beyond seems to be above Hit's ordinary attributes so its at that point that he spams his abilities and pushes them to their limit, putting him anywhere above SSJ but below SSJG. I'm guessing Hit qualifies in the SSJ2 or possibly SSJ3 tier of simple raw strength, pretty incredible for someone without any transformations or God Ki.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Obviously they don't want to kill him.Professor Freeza wrote:I REAAAAALY Doubt thatTheUltimateNinja wrote:They were holding back.Professor Freeza wrote:
Well Hit was able to take hits [heh] from SSB Goku and Jiren. I doubt a SSj3 level guy would be able to do that
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
https://screenshots.firefox.com/QCN1v8q ... imepace.siTheUltimateNinja wrote:Obviously they don't want to kill him.Professor Freeza wrote:I REAAAAALY Doubt thatTheUltimateNinja wrote: They were holding back.
Does that seem holding back to you?
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Yes. Goku probably would have blown his head off if he went all out.Professor Freeza wrote:https://screenshots.firefox.com/QCN1v8q ... imepace.siTheUltimateNinja wrote:Obviously they don't want to kill him.Professor Freeza wrote:
I REAAAAALY Doubt that
Does that seem holding back to you?
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
In the manga, I'd estimate him to be a match for a revived post-training True Form Freeza; in the anime, I'd estimate him to be a match for a hypothetical SSJ Blue Kaiōken x5 Gokū; without the Time Skip, he'd probably fight more-or-less like either of them, minus the Kaiōken's strain. So, in the manga, I'd say he's not a match for any of the characters you listed, but, in the anime, he'd be a match for all of them.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
In the anime, Hit spammed his time skip practically every time he could use it as well as the fact that the anime time skip can improve mid-battle while the manga time skip has a set limit. These factors can very well make it appear that anime Hit is significantly stronger than his manga counterpart, I'd argue that they're in a similar or the same power tier though.Black Hawk wrote:In the manga, I'd estimate him to be a match for a revived post-training True Form Freeza; in the anime, I'd estimate him to be a match for a hypothetical SSJ Blue Kaiōken x5 Gokū; without the Time Skip, he'd probably fight more-or-less like either of them, minus the Kaiōken's strain. So, in the manga, I'd say he's not a match for any of the characters you listed, but, in the anime, he'd be a match for all of them.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
I'd say he'd still be even with SSB Goku, Vegeta, and Golden Freeza. He'd easily beat Ultimate Gohan though, since Gohan isn't near SSB-level (yet, I guess).
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
That's a very good point. Since the anime doesn't include Whis' exposition on Vegeta not being able to utilize SSJ Blue's full power in rapid succession (though he did have a harder time with Magetter and Cabba than in the manga), I might mark him as being slightly stronger than in the manga, perhaps around or slightly above SSJ Blue, but not with any level of Kaiōken stacked on top of it. He did, after all, survive an onslaught of attacks from SSJ Blue Kaiōken x10 Gokū and didn't appear particularly worse for wear afterward, so I can't quite see him being below SSJ Blue.theherodjl wrote:In the anime, Hit spammed his time skip practically every time he could use it as well as the fact that the anime time skip can improve mid-battle while the manga time skip has a set limit. These factors can very well make it appear that anime Hit is significantly stronger than his manga counterpart, I'd argue that they're in a similar or the same power tier though.
Perhaps, without Time Skip, he'd have been an even match for SSJ Blue Gokū to balance out how he dominated SSJ Blue Gokū after his Time Skip improved.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Easily SSJB level. Here is the proof: Jiren blocked SSJG punches with a finger, but agaisnt Blue Goku and Hit, he blocked properly.
Even without Time Skip, he trades blow to blow with SSJB Goku, blocking his attacks, keeping up with his movements and hitting him back, and his attacks always damage Goku in Blue form, so his strength is omn par obviously.
He can block hits from Jiren, same hits that Goku took. He was able to send Jiren flying with a punch.
His is also insanely durable, he tanks blows better than anyone. Dyspo was beating him up, and he took it head on and his power hasn't dropped at all and he wasn't really damaged that much. He took hits from Kaioken 10x Goku and still was fine after that, in fighting shape, he took hits from Jiren and his damage was still minimal (stated by Cabba), and is proven later because Hit seemed to be just fine when he used his time lock, and even after being defeated, he was fine.
I would say his strength, speed and durability is just like that of SSJB, but he is much more powerful with his hax.
To all those who say Goku was holding back agaisnt Hit, no evidences to support this. Just your wishes, only thing he held back was kaioken.
Even without Time Skip, he trades blow to blow with SSJB Goku, blocking his attacks, keeping up with his movements and hitting him back, and his attacks always damage Goku in Blue form, so his strength is omn par obviously.
He can block hits from Jiren, same hits that Goku took. He was able to send Jiren flying with a punch.
His is also insanely durable, he tanks blows better than anyone. Dyspo was beating him up, and he took it head on and his power hasn't dropped at all and he wasn't really damaged that much. He took hits from Kaioken 10x Goku and still was fine after that, in fighting shape, he took hits from Jiren and his damage was still minimal (stated by Cabba), and is proven later because Hit seemed to be just fine when he used his time lock, and even after being defeated, he was fine.
I would say his strength, speed and durability is just like that of SSJB, but he is much more powerful with his hax.
To all those who say Goku was holding back agaisnt Hit, no evidences to support this. Just your wishes, only thing he held back was kaioken.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
He should be equivalent to SSB plus or minus a few. In the manga, there was no such thing as "improvement". When he powered up, he got stronger and his time skip remained at 0.1 s. It makes sense because he never used this "improvement" again during his fight with Dyspo or Jiren. The "improvement" was a Toei made thing and did not make sense for Hit to magically improve during a fight. Zenkai boosts happen after being healed from the brink of death. Magically improving during the fight makes absolutely no sense.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
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Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707
Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
I feel as though he should be inferior to the present arc SSJB tier. Goku in blue completely withstood Kunshi's attack with no damage suffered whereas Hit appeared to be cautiously positioning himself so as to not set them off while relying on his ranged technique to counterattack his opponent. As for how he can remain standing after taking attacks from opponents who should logically be much stronger than him, well I think using the same reasoning for how Goku could survive even a single attack from Freeza at 50% back in the Namek arc should suffice. Maybe he built up his endurance to resist attacks from far stronger opponents. Without Toki-Tobashi Hit is still very dangerous through his Dim Mak. If Toei knew how to interpret and execute its effects properly then anyone sans the regenerative fighters would fall victim to a few pinpoint strikes in vulnerable places.
Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Back in the Universe 6 saga he was weaker than Super Saiyan Blue Goku power level wise.
Who knows how strong he grew by the Tournament of Power but it's probably still the same relatively. In which case then no I don't think he'd be as powerful as Golden Frieza or Toppo.
Who knows how strong he grew by the Tournament of Power but it's probably still the same relatively. In which case then no I don't think he'd be as powerful as Golden Frieza or Toppo.
Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
Anime: ssj blue level, since he was able to ko ssj blue Vegeta.
Manga: between ssg and ssj blue.
Manga: between ssg and ssj blue.
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Re: How strong is Hit without Time Skip?
I'd say that in the anime he's as powerful, in fact maybe a bit more so, then Goku and Vegeta in Blue. But as shown, his time-skip gives him a very big advantage over foes even as powerful as himself.