"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Totamo]

I never thought I'd see Toriyama favor 17 so much over Gohan when he wrote 17 out of the show since the moment Cell absorbed him and we never saw him again for 20 years.

Toriyama doesn't favor characters, they are all disposable to him and simple uses what is best for the story.


Stop thinking too much into things.

[precita]

Never would have imagined Gohan would be shafted for 17, and I like 17's comeback.

Toriyama really does must have a hatred for Gohan. Screws him in the Buu arc, makes him a fool in Return of F, doesn't even have him participate or watch the U6 tournament, and now this. Toriyama must regret giving Goku a son (or two sons, since he does nothing with Goten either).

[HeroR]

His performance wasn't amazing but he still did far better than Gohan did. Toppo actually took the time to dodge his attacks, which is a total contrast to how he shrugged off Gohan's Kamehameha. Justice Flash also failed against 17, so there's that. Maybe there isn't any latent power he's hiding, but either way, his current clash with Toppo wasn't long enough to gauge accurately. I'm just skeptical that Frieza's going to be doing all the work is all.

He did better than Gohan from an experience POV. If he was vastly ahead of Gohan, I don't think he would allowed himself to drop off before him. Also, Toppo was taken by surprised by Gohan's Kamehameha, just like 17's blast. Justice Flash only 'failed' because of 17's barrier.

I think Freeza is going to be doing 70% to 17's 30%. This is just going by what we have seen so far.

[Kagari]

Never would have imagined Gohan would be shafted for 17, and I like 17's comeback.

Toriyama really does must have a hatred for Gohan. Screws him in the Buu arc, makes him a fool in Return of F, doesn't even have him participate or watch the U6 tournament, and now this. Toriyama must regret giving Goku a son (or two sons, since he does nothing with Goten either).

Why are you being so dramatic over something that isn't even confirmed yet.

[HeroR]

Never would have imagined Gohan would be shafted for 17, and I like 17's comeback.

Toriyama really does must have a hatred for Gohan. Screws him in the Buu arc, makes him a fool in Return of F, doesn't even have him participate or watch the U6 tournament, and now this. Toriyama must regret giving Goku a son (or two sons, since he does nothing with Goten either).

Why are you being so dramatic over something that isn't even confirmed yet.

Because it's precita. And even if Gohan did drop this coming episode, it weird it's because 'Toriyama hates Gohan'. I guess he despises everyone else in U7 who dropped before Gohan.

[supercat]

His performance wasn't amazing but he still did far better than Gohan did. Toppo actually took the time to dodge his attacks, which is a total contrast to how he shrugged off Gohan's Kamehameha. Justice Flash also failed against 17, so there's that. Maybe there isn't any latent power he's hiding, but either way, his current clash with Toppo wasn't long enough to gauge accurately. I'm just skeptical that Frieza's going to be doing all the work is all.

He did better than Gohan from an experience POV. If he was vastly ahead of Gohan, I don't think he would allowed himself to drop off before him. Also, Toppo was taken by surprised by Gohan's Kamehameha, just like 17's blast. Justice Flash only 'failed' because of 17's barrier.

I think Freeza is going to be doing 70% to 17's 30%. This is just going by what we have seen so far.

But the point is, he still did better than Gohan did. Yes, both Gohan and 17 got Toppo off guard, but 17's blast actually made Toppo flinch whereas Gohan's Kamehameha presumably did nothing. Also, if 17's blasts were that weak, Toppo wouldn't have bothered running from them.

17's barrier is an extension of his power; so to say that the barrier was the sole reason behind his ability to tank an attack is like saying Goku or Vegeta were only able to do such and such due to their transformations. 17 doesn't have the luxury of transforming, but his barrier grants him a boost in durability, much akin to how transformations do for the Saiyans.

Again, I'm not saying 17 will suddenly start wrecking Toppo, but I feel automatically assuming Frieza will be vastly superior is a huge downplay on 17. The guy has some solid feats supporting him, so everything is up in the air at this point.

[Professor Freeza]

Here's the best thing about 17 and Freeza vs Toppo.
The 2 [once upon a time] villains of U7 going up against the Guy who's made of Justice.

SO DAMN COOL

Never would have imagined Gohan would be shafted for 17, and I like 17's comeback.

Toriyama really does must have a hatred for Gohan. Screws him in the Buu arc, makes him a fool in Return of F, doesn't even have him participate or watch the U6 tournament, and now this. Toriyama must regret giving Goku a son (or two sons, since he does nothing with Goten either).

Alright, Reported. Kinda had enough of this off topic BS.

[dbzfan7]

Doesn't sound good, but not gonna overreact to the spoilers now. I'm still finding it funny it seems like Vegeta overheard what Gohan said about achieving a new ultimate form different from Goku, and then went and took the idea XD. Maybe the anime staff just did that and the manga will have Vegeta bring this up instead for himself.

I have no idea why anyone even thinks Gohan did bad. He did good. He just didn't come close to living up to the build up hype his dialogue, as well as his fans set up. So it just automatically feels underwhelming in comparison. I mean he gets serious for once, Piccolo scolds him for letting his guard down, he demands Goku not go easy on him, he proclaims he will go beyond in a whole new and different way, and he wants to protect those he loves, and not fail like he did before. It's just with all that, and everything his entire Super journey seems to have built up to, the results are pretty lackluster. Now if we did have like Gohan train with Piccolo, go Ultimate, and then basically end it there...I think people wouldn't feel let down as much. The ending theme at the time probably didn't help when it had Goku and Gohan side by side, and now it's back to Goku and Vegeta side by side.

Or maybe for once they're pissed at Vegeta for basically getting rewarded from no character plot or build up across the whole arc, and basically not having any sort of ongoing story til arguably midway, and even then done poorly. While the person with the second most build up is not really getting anything close to that kind of pay off. But I'm just trying to think from multiple perspectives here. I also would have to guess the possible shitstorm coming would also be from fear that this is the end of Gohan's character arc, and we'll just go in one big circle again like with early Super.

But just to keep it to my own thoughts. Gohan did really good....in comparison to everything he's done in Super beforehand which was pretty much nothing, and embarrassing himself. This is the best he's been in this show, and it's good to have had some decent moments thrown around. If he is eliminated and that's it for his entire arc, then the build up was good but the pay off is lackluster. If the pay off is supposed to come later, then there probably will be fear of if this still was the pay off while I wait XD.

[sintzu]

There's nothing about Gohan losing so if he's not fighting Toppo then it just means he's still fighting Dyspo. Also keep in mind if Gohan is out then it could mean he took Dyspo out with him so what's the problem if he got a big win before going out ?

Did anyone seriously think Gohan was going to take down more than one of u11's big 3 ?

[Professor Freeza]

There's nothing about Gohan losing so if he's not fighting Toppo then it just means he's still fighting Dyspo. Also keep in mind if Gohan is out then it could mean he took Dyspo out with him so what's the problem if he got a big win before going out ?

Did anyone seriously think Gohan was going to take down more than one of u11's big 3 ?

One guy here did.

I mean, Freeza and 17 is a better team than Gohan with either

[dbzfan7]

There's nothing about Gohan losing so if he's not fighting Toppo then it just means he's still fighting Dyspo. Also keep in mind if Gohan is out then it could mean he took Dyspo out with him so what's the problem if he got a big win before going out ?

Did anyone seriously think Gohan was going to take down more than one of u11's big 3 ?

One guy here did.

I mean, Freeza and 17 is a better team than Gohan with either

Now that I highly disagree with. Freeza hates to work with anyone. He'll just do his own thing or manipulate. Doubt 17 would be up for either of those either. At least 17 and Gohan would work together. Freeza basically played Gohan and if he didn't catch on and tried to fight Freeza full force, he probably woulda end up hurt bare minimum, or probably worse. Though maybe their combination will prove me wrong in 125.

[Michsi]

Well, I hope this is the same case with 121 where most thought that Vegeta would be going out based on the spoilers.

I won't lie, 17 possibly outlasting Gohan irks me and I really wish it didn't. Technically I still have Goku and Freeza to look forward to, but damn has my interest in this arc dropped.

I know some people roll their eyes when they see someone's attachments to a series be so dependent on particular characters, but that usually happens when the story is narratively weak. You can't help but focus more on characters because the show isn't really offering anything else.

[Professor Freeza]

There's nothing about Gohan losing so if he's not fighting Toppo then it just means he's still fighting Dyspo. Also keep in mind if Gohan is out then it could mean he took Dyspo out with him so what's the problem if he got a big win before going out ?

Did anyone seriously think Gohan was going to take down more than one of u11's big 3 ?

One guy here did.

I mean, Freeza and 17 is a better team than Gohan with either

Now that I highly disagree with. Freeza hates to work with anyone. He'll just do his own thing or manipulate. Doubt 17 would be up for either of those either. At least 17 and Gohan would work together. Freeza basically played Gohan and if he didn't catch on and tried to fight Freeza full force, he probably woulda end up hurt bare minimum, or probably worse. Though maybe their combination will prove me wrong in 125.

But ended up doing so against Aniraza. Why wont he do it against Toppo, who's much stronger and will be impossible for Freeza to beat head on? He's cunning AF, but he knows whats best for him.

And 17 has a much better battle sense than Gohan, as seen vs Damon and Toppo.

[dbzfan7]

I know some people roll their eyes when they see someone's attachments to a series be so dependent on particular characters, but that usually happens when the story is narratively weak. You can't help but focus more on characters because the show isn't really offering anything else.

May probably be why so many of us are dependent on some characters doing really well. I mean we finally got to the end of the tournament, and really most of the tournament wasn't really good. Had some great highs, a lot of mediocre, and some lows. Doesn't help we knew 11 would be the final universe, so basically the rest just felt like hoping each individual universe gave the characters we like something special, rather than particularly be gripping or interesting themselves.

One guy here did.

I mean, Freeza and 17 is a better team than Gohan with either

Now that I highly disagree with. Freeza hates to work with anyone. He'll just do his own thing or manipulate. Doubt 17 would be up for either of those either. At least 17 and Gohan would work together. Freeza basically played Gohan and if he didn't catch on and tried to fight Freeza full force, he probably woulda end up hurt bare minimum, or probably worse. Though maybe their combination will prove me wrong in 125.

But ended up doing so against Aniraza. Why wont he do it against Toppo, who's much stronger and will be impossible for Freeza to beat head on? He's cunning AF, but he knows whats best for him.

And 17 has a much better battle sense than Gohan, as seen vs Damon and Toppo.

He more or less just did his own thing and fired his beam at the end....that's about it. Hell he only joined in once Aniraza attacked him...that's the only reason he did. Not really much different from what Vegeta does honestly, and he doesn't like to team up either. Basically he'll just want to fight Toppo his way while 17 does whatever he wants. Or he'll just do his own thing even if it manages to get 17 hurt. I don't think Freeza makes a good team member as he doesn't care about anyone but himself. He'd gladly sacrifice anyone to get himself ahead. While I agree both have better battle sense than Gohan, it doesn't mean much when one person on your team is a complete scumbag. I won't be surprised if he shoots a death beam through 17 and just barely misses his and Toppo's vitals. Freeza is a shitty teammate as he just out to use everyone. I can see Freeza's so called team work being just letting 17 do all the work while he sits back, and then comes in when he feels like it.

[IndieBooToo]

One guy here did.

I mean, Freeza and 17 is a better team than Gohan with either

Now that I highly disagree with. Freeza hates to work with anyone. He'll just do his own thing or manipulate. Doubt 17 would be up for either of those either. At least 17 and Gohan would work together. Freeza basically played Gohan and if he didn't catch on and tried to fight Freeza full force, he probably woulda end up hurt bare minimum, or probably worse. Though maybe their combination will prove me wrong in 125.

But ended up doing so against Aniraza. Why wont he do it against Toppo, who's much stronger and will be impossible for Freeza to beat head on? He's cunning AF, but he knows whats best for him.

And 17 has a much better battle sense than Gohan, as seen vs Damon and Toppo.

This is literally impossible to determine without seeing what Frieza can really do in a real fight.

[dbzfan7]

Now that I highly disagree with. Freeza hates to work with anyone. He'll just do his own thing or manipulate. Doubt 17 would be up for either of those either. At least 17 and Gohan would work together. Freeza basically played Gohan and if he didn't catch on and tried to fight Freeza full force, he probably woulda end up hurt bare minimum, or probably worse. Though maybe their combination will prove me wrong in 125.

But ended up doing so against Aniraza. Why wont he do it against Toppo, who's much stronger and will be impossible for Freeza to beat head on? He's cunning AF, but he knows whats best for him.

And 17 has a much better battle sense than Gohan, as seen vs Damon and Toppo.

This is literally impossible to determine without seeing what Frieza can really do in a real fight.

Also that too when Freeza is surprisingly very calm despite Goku going Ultra Instinct. He doesn't seem at all bothered by it. So I think there's more to him possibly.

[Michsi]

I know some people roll their eyes when they see someone's attachments to a series be so dependent on particular characters, but that usually happens when the story is narratively weak. You can't help but focus more on characters because the show isn't really offering anything else.

May probably be why so many of us are dependent on some characters doing really well. I mean we finally got to the end of the tournament, and really most of the tournament wasn't really good. Had some great highs, a lot of mediocre, and some lows. Doesn't help we knew 11 would be the final universe, so basically the rest just felt like hoping each individual universe gave the characters we like something special, rather than particularly be gripping or interesting themselves.

Basically the only tension present in this arc comes from who goes out when and doing what and once those you care about are on the bench, the whole thing just kinda feels 'meh'. I think the high points of this arc are the best Super has had, it's also the best looking arc, but damn do I wish they would've tried a little bit more with the story.

[King Jacku]

I don't think Gohan is out. I think the "shady" thing that Freeza is hinted to do this EP is leave Gohan with Dyspo alone while he is having trouble and go fight Toppo. And since I don't see them mention Dyspo either, I'm going to assume they are fighting in the background, during Toppo's EP.

And even if Gohan is out, at least he made it pretty far, and will have one last dedicated episode. Definitely wouldn't like it if he got ringed out in a little 30 second cut-away scene during the Jiren fight or something like that.

[Doctor.]

Or maybe for once they're pissed at Vegeta for basically getting rewarded from no character plot or build up across the whole arc, and basically not having any sort of ongoing story til arguably midway, and even then done poorly. While the person with the second most build up is not really getting anything close to that kind of pay off

So they get how Trunks and Vegeta fans felt during the Cell arc?

[OLKv3]

Now Vegeta needs to go so 17 makes it to the final three.