"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Professor Freeza]

Go full throttle all or nothing,no half assed faith.

Toei and Toriyama have a long way to go before I take that kind of bet for them.

Chicken

[HeroR]

I'd say that counts more as a good story concept, not storytelling. DB as a whole is peppered with great concepts that are never fully explored. King Piccolo's belief that humans are inherently evil and sets them free from the constraints of law; Freeza's portrayal as this suave, smarmy tycoon and him being the head of a business rather than a run-of-the-mill conqueror; Buu's volatile personality and general instability was what made him unpredictable and frightening. Heck, even the Omni King being a child that holds the existence of the universe at his finger tips is technically an interesting concept, but the show never uses those ideas to the fullest in order to keep things light and uncomplicated.
I think Super suffers more from the shortcomings of this type of writing because people came in expecting it to do more than what Z did. It's better in the sense that the art direction and story boarding are more modern, but I wouldn't say it has superior storytelling, and definitely not because it has one interesting character as an antagonist.

That is still part of storytelling.

King Piccolo's belief that humans are evil is easy to pinpoint since he was born from the Nameless Namekian's being corrupted by the evil of mankind. Freeza is a born sociopath and he's still a galactic empire. He just happens to run a business. Which Buu, there's like three of them. Zen'o is a child because Toriyama enjoys the irony, it doesn't necessarily need deeper meaning.

Again, Z didn't have strong storytelling, so expecting Super to have good storytelling based on Z is really laughable. And it's definitely better since the villains have far more interesting motive and more shades of grey which gives them more diversity when dealing with the cast. That and Super isn't carried about the entire cast being morons like they were in the Cell and Buu Saga.

And 'antagonist' means someone against the hero, which Super had more than one of. Namely, Beerus was an antagonist, Champa was an antagonist, Hit was an antagonist, U11 gods are antagonist, Jiren is an antagonist, Toppo is an antagonist, ect. It isn't just Black and Zamasu.

[sintzu]

Go full throttle all or nothing,no half assed faith.

Toei and Toriyama have a long way to go before I take that kind of bet for them.

Chicken

You good for nothing...fine fine I'll do it as long as the picture I change to isn't humiliating. If Vegeta loses or doesn't put up a good fight against Toppo then I'll change my picture to a Toppo one but that's as far as I'll go. If Vegeta wins or puts up a good fight then he has to change to a none humiliating Vegeta picture. Either side's change will last one week.

This would be so much easier if Vegeta was written like Sasuke was from Naruto.

[Professor Freeza]

Toei and Toriyama have a long way to go before I take that kind of bet for them.

Chicken

You good for nothing...fine fine I'll do it as long as the picture I change to isn't humiliating. If Vegeta loses or doesn't put up a good fight against Toppo then I'll change my picture to a Toppo one but that's as far as I'll go. If Vegeta wins or puts up a good fight then he has to change to a none humiliating Vegeta picture. Either side's change will last one week.

This would be so much easier if Vegeta was written like Sasuke was from Naruto.

He wont reply. You wont have to do anything.

Although you do understand that Vegeta is the inspiration for Sasuke.

[sintzu]

Although you do understand that Vegeta is the inspiration for Sasuke.

Both are my favorite anime characters (although one does a better job at getting things done) .

[Professor Freeza]

Although you do understand that Vegeta is the inspiration for Sasuke.

Both are my favorite anime characters (although one does a better job at getting things done) .

Thing is, Dragon Ball is like this because the Fans are at fault too.

I never saw Naruto. But Naruto fans probably have no problems watching the series leave Naruto and get his Son and other characters to the top.

DB fans dont even want Krillin or Roshi to die, who has long served their purpose.

Literal Dragon Balls dont help either.

[sintzu]

Thing is, Dragon Ball is like this because the Fans are at fault too.

Naruto fans probably have no problems watching the series leave Naruto and get his Son and other characters to the top.

I mostly blame the people behind it for being too afraid to change things up in a big way like that. DB is currently at a point where it can afford to let Vegeta take the lead or at the very least give him his own adventures and villains while Goku gets his.

If sales are anything to go by then no, giving other characters huge amounts of spotlight has done wonders for it as it's currently the 3rd best selling manga worldwide. Naruto is of course still the main character throughout but he never took anything away from the others. At the end of the 1st part he and Sasuke went their separate ways and didn't fully meet until 200+ episodes later after each one went on his own adventures and fought his own villains. That's something I'd love for DB to do with Goku and Vegeta.

[Michsi]

That is still part of storytelling.
.

I don't want to get into a debate over semantics, but to me it's the difference between having an idea and how you use it, and that's an issue of fiction as old as time. Plenty of bad to mediocre works have great ideas behind them, but are ruined by how they went about using those ideas.

Those examples were just there to show that the novelty that is Zamasu/Goku Black wasn't a case of them catching lightening in a bottle, there were plenty of great villains that people enjoyed, and sometimes hammy-ness was part of their charm. The only reason Zamasu stands out is because his motive is different, not necessarily because he is better. Also, people said that manga Zamasu is nowhere near as interesting.

Again, Z didn't have strong storytelling, so expecting Super to have good storytelling based on Z is really laughable.

I didn't say that Z was know for it's 'groundbreaking' storylines, what I said is, that given the general acclaim of this franchise, people expected them to try and do something that seemed more thoughtthrough. Oh, and there's all that longwinded discussion about tone and tension to take into consideration.

Ironically, you listing Super's 'antagonists' only shows that it's doing basically what Z did, reusing the same idea of the antagonist that's not actually evil. Beerus was interesting in that regard when he first popped up, but then we had Champa, Hit, Jiren, a million other characters from the TOP. Zamasu stands out more when compared to the other antagonists of Super, rather than Z.

[Birusu16]

Spoilers for 125 and 126 are out.

[spoiler]

https://twitter.com/YonkouProd/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

[Professor Freeza]

That is still part of storytelling.
.

I don't want to get into a debate over semantics, but to me it's the difference between having an idea and how you use it, and that's an issue of fiction as old as time. Plenty of bad to mediocre works have great ideas behind them, but are ruined by how they went about using those ideas.

Those examples were just there to show that the novelty that is Zamasu/Goku Black wasn't a case of them catching lightening in a bottle, there were plenty of great villains that people enjoyed, and sometimes hammy-ness was part of their charm. The only reason Zamasu stands out is because his motive is different, not necessarily because he is better. Also, people said that manga Zamasu is nowhere near as interesting.

Again, Z didn't have strong storytelling, so expecting Super to have good storytelling based on Z is really laughable.

I didn't say that Z was know for it's 'groundbreaking' storylines, what I said is, that given the general acclaim of this franchise, people expected them to try and do something that seemed more thoughtthrough. Oh, and there's all that longwinded discussion about tone and tension to take into consideration.

Ironically, you listing Super's 'antagonists' only shows that it's doing basically what Z did, reusing the same idea of the antagonist that's not actually evil. Beerus was interesting in that regard when he first popped up, but then we had Champa, Hit, Jiren, a million other characters from the TOP. Zamasu stands out more when compared to the other antagonists of Super, rather than Z.

I disagree. Perfect cell had literally no motivation. Same for Buu.

Every antagonist is super had a solid motive. Beerus wanted to fight the SSG. Freeza came back to destroy Goku and Vegeta. Champa wanted u7 earth. Jiren clearly wants the Super DB's so much he'd rather destroy innocent universes.

Zamasu though, Trump's everyone else. You slot the black arc in with some changes after the shit Buu arc and the series will end will the second best and deepest written villain.

Z is extremely over hyped in terms of story after namek.

[ToshioWrites]

[spoiler]https://twitter.com/yonkouprod/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

[Noah]

[spoiler]https://twitter.com/yonkouprod/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

How about post the complete content?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Totamo]

Thing is, Dragon Ball is like this because the Fans are at fault too.

Naruto fans probably have no problems watching the series leave Naruto and get his Son and other characters to the top.

I mostly blame the people behind it for being too afraid to change things up in a big way like that. DB is currently at a point where it can afford to let Vegeta take the lead or at the very least give him his own adventures and villains while Goku gets his.

If sales are anything to go by then no, giving other characters huge amounts of spotlight has done wonders for it as it's currently the 3rd best selling manga worldwide. Naruto is of course still the main character throughout but he never took anything away from the others. At the end of the 1st part he and Sasuke went their separate ways and didn't fully meet until 200+ episodes later after each one went on his own adventures and fought his own villains. That's something I'd love for DB to do with Goku and Vegeta.

You lying.........I am a huge Naruto fan but Shippuden is straight up like super in the sense its only about 2 characters and Sauske is one of the most unlikable characters in the anime medium. He ruined every character he came in contact with including the protagonist and got away with becoming a terrorist not to mention his hack jutsu and his family's stupid cumbersome lore that dominated the entire fourth shinobi war, the longest and worst arc in the entire manga.


And where the hell would Vegeta go without looking like an asshole for ditching his family? You know like that other asshole who ditched his for 12 years and tried to murder his daughter on site?

[Pannaliciour]

[spoiler]https://twitter.com/yonkouprod/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

How about post the complete content?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Do you guys think he is a GoD or GoD candidate (powerwise)

[Birusu16]

[spoiler]https://twitter.com/yonkouprod/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

How about post the complete content?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Do you guys think he is a GoD or GoD candidate (powerwise)

GoD. I don't see the point of the episode title if his power wasn't on par with that of a real GoD.

[Michsi]

I disagree. Perfect cell had literally no motivation. Same for Buu.

Every antagonist is super had a solid motive. Beerus wanted to fight the SSG. Freeza came back to destroy Goku and Vegeta. Champa wanted u7 earth. Jiren clearly wants the Super DB's so much he'd rather destroy innocent universes.

Zamasu though, Trump's everyone else. You slot the black arc in with some changes after the shit Buu arc and the series will end will the second best and deepest written villain.

Z is extremely over hyped in terms of story after namek.

Cell and Beerus' motivation is almost identical. They just want to fight for the heck of it. The only difference between them is that Beerus doesn't have quite as much malice in him as Cell did, but that becomes apparent only after their fight is done. His reason for engaging Goku in battle is as shallow as it could be. And Jiren is currently one of the weakest most uninteresting antagonists I have seen in this franchise. Buu wasn't intriguing that regard either, but he was not so much a character, but more like a calamity with a face. His unpredictable, chaotic nature was what set him apart from the rest.

Also, I don't count Freeza as a 'Super' antagonist.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Spoilers for 125 and 126 are out.

[spoiler]

https://twitter.com/YonkouProd/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

These spoilers were a bit confusing ... Vegeta going to face Toppo or Jiren?

[Birusu16]

Spoilers for 125 and 126 are out.

[spoiler]

https://twitter.com/YonkouProd/status/9 ... 7832180742[/spoiler]

These spoilers were a bit confusing ... Vegeta going to face Toppo or Jiren?

[spoiler]Both. "The cornered Toppo demonstrates the true power of a GoD candidate! Aided by Jiren, he attacks Vegeta, but Vegeta challenges Jiren with breathtaking continuous attacks at full power!.[/spoiler]

[perucho1990]

Yeah Vegeta will fight both Jiren and Toppo at the same time, he somehow inherited Toei Goku plotshield.

Speaking of Goku, he probably got KOd and the moment he wakes up he will unlock UI again like vs Kefla.

17 and Freeza might be gone.

[HeroR]

That is still part of storytelling.
.

I don't want to get into a debate over semantics, but to me it's the difference between having an idea and how you use it, and that's an issue of fiction as old as time. Plenty of bad to mediocre works have great ideas behind them, but are ruined by how they went about using those ideas.

Those examples were just there to show that the novelty that is Zamasu/Goku Black wasn't a case of them catching lightening in a bottle, there were plenty of great villains that people enjoyed, and sometimes hammy-ness was part of their charm. The only reason Zamasu stands out is because his motive is different, not necessarily because he is better. Also, people said that manga Zamasu is nowhere near as interesting.

Again, Z didn't have strong storytelling, so expecting Super to have good storytelling based on Z is really laughable.

I didn't say that Z was know for it's 'groundbreaking' storylines, what I said is, that given the general acclaim of this franchise, people expected them to try and do something that seemed more thoughtthrough. Oh, and there's all that longwinded discussion about tone and tension to take into consideration.

Ironically, you listing Super's 'antagonists' only shows that it's doing basically what Z did, reusing the same idea of the antagonist that's not actually evil. Beerus was interesting in that regard when he first popped up, but then we had Champa, Hit, Jiren, a million other characters from the TOP. Zamasu stands out more when compared to the other antagonists of Super, rather than Z.

Most of the acclaimed for Z comes from the action, almost nothing to do with the story. Especially after the Namek Saga where most of the cast too a level in dumbass.

What ideas did they reused? Champa, Hit, and Jiren act almost nothing like antagonists in Z.