I've seen people praising episode 111 a lot on other websites.Michsi wrote:I'm curious if this will remain an unpopular opinion. The TOP has been a rollercoaster when it comes to general opinion. It started out pretty low, got better with that Roshi episode, dropped again, then had that string of pretty good episodes from 109 -120 with 111,115 and 119 being the only exceptions. Since then it's been pretty 'meh' I'd say.The gr wrote:Yup this totally work as a stand alone story the episodic format is completely destroying my enjoyment and the recruitment phase aside from a couple of episode was boring as hell, never gonna rewatch those part when it get released a dub.Dbzfan94 wrote:New unpopular opinion
Tournament of Power is one of the worst DB arcs to date. There’s little to no consistency from episode to episode. It feels so episodic like many American cartoons are. The writing feels like they forget what happened 4 seconds prior. Also for a battle royale where everything is supposed to be happening at the same time, events happen in consequence. Characters disappear for episodes at a time and just turns out they were standing still doing nothing the whole time.
I see so many things about this character got such a great showing but for the most part excluding 17 and Freeza they got one or two good moments and that’s it.
Unpopular DB opinions
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Gowasu's number 1 fan.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
English is not my mother tongue,so I don't care for dub.Robo4900 wrote:Depends.Hawk9211 wrote:Objectively,RoF was much than this arc but it was way more boring.I enjoyed copy vegeta more.
The Copy Vegeta thing is the only time this really applies to Dragon Ball in my view, so get ready for this...
As much as the arc is rather disappointing in sub viewing, the dub makes it a lot better.
Naturally, there's one very good reason for why this is.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball
Spoiler:
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Fair enough.Hawk9211 wrote:English is not my mother tongue,so I don't care for dub.
And as I say, this is a very rare case. Only reason I consider the dub to be good for that one is because they got Brian Drummond in as Copy Vegeta, and he absolutely slayed.
Pretty underwhelming arc, but sometimes a great actor can salvage a poor plot. Of course, it is all a matter of opinion.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I dont know about objectively, but at least RF tried to have a coherent plot. So Ill give it that.Hawk9211 wrote: Objectively,RoF was much than this arc but it was way more boring.I enjoyed copy vegeta more.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Oh, I absolutely agree that the best results come when both the writing and the fan-service are good and complement each other, but there are instances where fan-service carries the whole thing. I think Ajay said it best (IIRC) that the TOP is an arc of moments. Taken as a whole, it's pretty weak, but it has some high-points which are really impressive.Robo4900 wrote:It can be done, but you have to have at least a decent cake in the first place.Michsi wrote:It's an interesting analogy, but I have to say, I've had cake where the icing was what made the whole thing good. So, fan-service alone can be enough for some, but we'll see.
I think of one of my favourite Doctor Who stories, The Three Doctors. In 1973, the writers thought "Hey, why don't we bring back the other two actors who've played the Doctor, and have them do a cool thing with the current(Third) Doctor in honour of the show's 10-year anniversary?"
And yeah, there was a lot of fanservice, because of course there would be. But, the plot itself was fairly well thought-out, the characters were the fan favourites we'd come to love over the past 10 seasons, and most importantly, the writing was sharp as a tack. Wall to wall wit, the characters all were doing things that made sense, and actually, the story itself was a fairly clever idea that made the multi-Doctor crossover make sense.
Ultimately, it was a good cake, but the icing was what made it. Omega was a cool villain, but what you came to see was the Brigadier arguing with the Doctors about whether UNIT HQ has been mysteriously transported to a parallel antimatter universe, or just a quarry in Norfolk, while the Doctors struggle to explain to Jo Grant that the second Doctor is in fact an earlier form of the third Doctor, and not simply another man entirely, while at the same time bickering with each-other in a way only two of the same person from different eras in their life could.
It's a riot.
Later on, you have The Five Doctors, which wasn't as good, because the plot was very thin, and realistically there were too many characters to juggle. Still though, the writing itself was very sharp, so as much as the whole thing overall ends up a bit of a mess, any given scene is a good laugh, and the whole product together is an entertaining 90 minutes of up-its-own-arse fanservice.
Meanwhile, Dragon Ball Super is ~130x25-minute episodes of up-its-own-arse fanservice that very much doesn't have good writing to get it through the rather abysmal plotting.
To be fair, I didn't think it was that bad either. I just saw a lot of negativity surrounding it here and on twitter. I think it just seemed worse than it was because it was the first episode after the special so the quality drop was felt more acutely and it ended with the elimination of a character that a lot of people assumed would make it until the end.TheDipDap1234 wrote: I've seen people praising episode 111 a lot on other websites.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Yeah... Even I, probably the biggest curmudgeon about Super here on Kanzenshuu, have to admit the TOP has had a lot of cool moments from what I've seen of it...Michsi wrote:Oh, I absolutely agree that the best results come when both the writing and the fan-service are good and complement each other, but there are instances where fan-service carries the whole thing. I think Ajay said it best (IIRC) that the TOP is an arc of moments. Taken as a whole, it's pretty weak, but it has some high-points which are really impressive.
Problem is, the writing itself, and the overall plot are just not that good. The Five Doctors was rather messily plotted, but the actual writing of the material was great; any individual scene was ace.
The TOP arc of Super has strong moments, but anything that isn't one of the big "Oh wow!" parts is, in my view at least, rather terrible. And because of the incredibly slow pace it ploddles along at, you're basically spending most of your time waiting around for people to get their asses in gear and get to the actaully cool parts.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I enjoyed the use of the cast in original DB the best.
I guess it helped that the cast was smaller and Goku was able to interact with them more. And most of the characters retained relevancy to some degree throughout.
This is still kinda there in early Z but is gone after the initial arcs.
So I guess my unpopular opinion is that the cast was better in early DB.
I guess it helped that the cast was smaller and Goku was able to interact with them more. And most of the characters retained relevancy to some degree throughout.
This is still kinda there in early Z but is gone after the initial arcs.
So I guess my unpopular opinion is that the cast was better in early DB.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I couldn't agree more! I freaking hated watching scenes that I have already seen in black and white panels from a paper! It was so freaking unnecessary for Toei to adapt the manga, while the manga was being serialized, maybe it would have been better for either Toei just to ignore it, or bring a new story. Maybe in the same vein as Pokémon. Another protagonist, another story resembling what was seen in the manga, I don't know. Anything else would have been better!11!1!Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
The "worst DB arc to date" may be unpopular, but the rest of what you say is true. I know the writers don't compose the episodes in a vacuum but Jeezus Cripes, it feels so much like that with each episode sometimes in this arc. With so many writers, the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" is so prevalent in this arc.Dbzfan94 wrote:New unpopular opinion
Tournament of Power is one of the worst DB arcs to date. There’s little to no consistency from episode to episode. It feels so episodic like many American cartoons are. The writing feels like they forget what happened 4 seconds prior. Also for a battle royale where everything is supposed to be happening at the same time, events happen in consequence. Characters disappear for episodes at a time and just turns out they were standing still doing nothing the whole time.
I see so many things about this character got such a great showing but for the most part excluding 17 and Freeza they got one or two good moments and that’s it.
What makes this even worse is that honestly, I felt the writing in the Future Trunks arc was much more consistent. We know they can do better than what we've seen in the ToP arc as a whole, so it just adds insult to injury.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Exactly ^
That's a lame attempt on trying to defend Super retellings
That's a lame attempt on trying to defend Super retellings
Power levels are not just big numbers:
by Doctor.
Spoiler:
by Doctor.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Are you being ironic?Grimlock wrote:I couldn't agree more! I freaking hated watching scenes that I have already seen in black and white panels from a paper! It was so freaking unnecessary for Toei to adapt the manga, while the manga was being serialized, maybe it would have been better for either Toei just to ignore it, or bring a new story. Maybe in the same vein as Pokémon. Another protagonist, another story resembling what was seen in the manga, I don't know. Anything else would have been better!11!1!Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Since it's not over yet, it's too soon for me to fairly judge the Tournament of Power Arc. But if the arc concludes in a manner consistent with how it's been going for the past several months, then, yes, I definitely would agree it is the worst story arc Dragon Ball has ever produced, even worse than the RoF Arc, and I honestly didn't think that would be possible. The only thing it has going for it is "hype" moments, and hype rarely has any effect on me. And in this case, the hype isn't even all that good. There have been episodes I've really enjoyed, but they are so shallow and forgettable that I honestly cannot think of a single one off the top of my head. They pass through my brain and then straight back out again. And that's only on the rare occasion when it's good. Most of the time lately, it's just become so boring and tedious.
The main problem is just how incapable they seem to be of taking advantage of the dramatic potential they have cultivated. We've never seen a battle royale before in DB, not really. The one other time it happened, two of the competitors were defeated instantly, and it immediately became a one-on-one fight followed by another one-on-one fight. So I was really excited about it. But they made it so huge that I've never been able to keep up with who most of the characters are. It's been impossible to feel any sense of progression. Characters you've never heard of swoop in and swoop back out again. Not to mention this is an extremely difficult situation. There are no bad guys, per se. They're all people trying to defend everything they've ever known, and yet all their victories would doom others to the same fate they're trying to avoid. That's dark. That's barbaric. That's internal conflict. And yet they've done nothing with it. Almost literally nothing. There was one moment where Gohan felt remorse over defeating someone. That's it. The rest has just been business as usual, with Goku's "Yay, I'm having a fight against a really strong guy!" caricature dominating the entire tone. This is not business as usual. This is deciding who lives and who dies, and yet nobody seems to care. And if they don't care, then I'm just really bored.
I honestly cannot wait for Super to end at this point.
The main problem is just how incapable they seem to be of taking advantage of the dramatic potential they have cultivated. We've never seen a battle royale before in DB, not really. The one other time it happened, two of the competitors were defeated instantly, and it immediately became a one-on-one fight followed by another one-on-one fight. So I was really excited about it. But they made it so huge that I've never been able to keep up with who most of the characters are. It's been impossible to feel any sense of progression. Characters you've never heard of swoop in and swoop back out again. Not to mention this is an extremely difficult situation. There are no bad guys, per se. They're all people trying to defend everything they've ever known, and yet all their victories would doom others to the same fate they're trying to avoid. That's dark. That's barbaric. That's internal conflict. And yet they've done nothing with it. Almost literally nothing. There was one moment where Gohan felt remorse over defeating someone. That's it. The rest has just been business as usual, with Goku's "Yay, I'm having a fight against a really strong guy!" caricature dominating the entire tone. This is not business as usual. This is deciding who lives and who dies, and yet nobody seems to care. And if they don't care, then I'm just really bored.
I honestly cannot wait for Super to end at this point.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
In what sort of sense does that make? DB and DBZ are adaptations of the manga.Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:If people complaint about the movie retelling arcs in SUPER they should be complaining about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z being manga retellings.
The Last Jedi is a terrible movie
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Just found this thread, thought it'd be a fun way to vent.
I guess my unpopular opinion would be... Vegeta kinda sucks. I think he is the single most overrated character in all of fiction. I NEVER even for second, even as a CHILD, bought the whole "tough guy" act. He always just came off a try hard edge lord dickhead sulking in the corner and constantly getting in the way. He was never "alpha" to me, never "cool", just kinda...like that dude we all know that tells crazy stories that you're 99% sure are full of shit.
All of the above refers to CELL ARC Vegeta and onward. Saiyan and Namek saga Vegeta is my second favorite character in Dragon Ball...so I'm not some mindless fanboy hater. I actually really dug him when he was a straight up conniving sadistic villain. The problem for me comes once you're supposed to start rooting for him. I just think the character fell off a cliff as time went on, and Super has just ran his character so deep into the ground that he's on the other side of the planet at this point.
Also, Majin Vegeta was fantastic. He was actually likeable, intimidating, and sympathetic then for once.
I guess my unpopular opinion would be... Vegeta kinda sucks. I think he is the single most overrated character in all of fiction. I NEVER even for second, even as a CHILD, bought the whole "tough guy" act. He always just came off a try hard edge lord dickhead sulking in the corner and constantly getting in the way. He was never "alpha" to me, never "cool", just kinda...like that dude we all know that tells crazy stories that you're 99% sure are full of shit.
All of the above refers to CELL ARC Vegeta and onward. Saiyan and Namek saga Vegeta is my second favorite character in Dragon Ball...so I'm not some mindless fanboy hater. I actually really dug him when he was a straight up conniving sadistic villain. The problem for me comes once you're supposed to start rooting for him. I just think the character fell off a cliff as time went on, and Super has just ran his character so deep into the ground that he's on the other side of the planet at this point.
Also, Majin Vegeta was fantastic. He was actually likeable, intimidating, and sympathetic then for once.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions
As Grimlock put it, both are adaptations of material we (the audience) have seen beforehand (most prevalent complaint againts the retellings in SUPER).Dbzfan94 wrote:
That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Thank you. He was enjoyable as a cackling maniac in the namek saga. But the moment they made him less unhinged and tried to rebrand him as a badass, while still being an unrepentant murderous prick.... He just sucks. I wish he died on namek or buu or something. I imagine a super where Piccolo and Ten took his place at training with Whis.Artorias wrote:Just found this thread, thought it'd be a fun way to vent.
I guess my unpopular opinion would be... Vegeta kinda sucks. I think he is the single most overrated character in all of fiction. I NEVER even for second, even as a CHILD, bought the whole "tough guy" act. He always just came off a try hard edge lord dickhead sulking in the corner and constantly getting in the way. He was never "alpha" to me, never "cool", just kinda...like that dude we all know that tells crazy stories that you're 99% sure are full of shit.
All of the above refers to CELL ARC Vegeta and onward. Saiyan and Namek saga Vegeta is my second favorite character in Dragon Ball...so I'm not some mindless fanboy hater. I actually really dug him when he was a straight up conniving sadistic villain. The problem for me comes once you're supposed to start rooting for him. I just think the character fell off a cliff as time went on, and Super has just ran his character so deep into the ground that he's on the other side of the planet at this point.
Also, Majin Vegeta was fantastic. He was actually likeable, intimidating, and sympathetic then for once.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Grimlock was being sarcastic.Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:As Grimlock put it, both are adaptations of material we (the audience) have seen beforehand (most prevalent complaint againts the retellings in SUPER).Dbzfan94 wrote:
That makes no sense. They're two totally different things.