Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

I have still not found one that depicts their strength after they trained with Whis (I mean: normal, SS, SS2 and SS3).

JazzMazz posted a SS3 Goku in his Super gi a few posts above, which could be at any point in BoG or after RoF/U6.

It could be, but I’m not sure. Each set seems to contain at least three eras. In this case: Pilaf Arc; Movie 10; Zamasu Arc. Sometimes, I see a sticker or two that doesn’t necessarily fit any of them, like SS Goku.

For reference:


Either way, it’s interesting that this set has Broly and Black stronger than SS3 Goku.

[Miracles]

I have no idea what's really going on here (I visit this thread less and less) but in the above link with the stickers this is what Herms said.

"So according to these cards (clearly the most canon of canon) the pecking order for the latter portion of Super goes like this:

UI Goku, Jiren
SSB Vegetto
Merged Zamasu, SSBE Vegeta
GoD Toppo
Kefla
SSB Goku
Golden Freeza
SSR Goku Black
Spirit Sword Trunks
SSG Goku
Gohan"

Now I don't know how much emphasis you want to place on a bunch of stickers but I could absolutely accept that order...

When you have Spirit sword Trunks weaker than Merged Zamasu and Vegetto, stronger than Kefla, whose SSJ1 was outright stated to "equal" a stronger Genki Dama in the TOP, these cards go where Toppo said Freeza goes.

[Bullza]

When you have Spirit sword Trunks weaker than Merged Zamasu and Vegetto, stronger than Kefla, whose SSJ1 was outright stated to "equal" a stronger Genki Dama in the TOP, these cards go where Toppo said Freeza goes.

As was mentioned elsewhere. There is another sticker with Super Saiyan Rage Trunks but without the sword which has the same Power Level. So it's probably not counting the Sword as such.

Just like the Merged Zamasu is just the the one where he has the Halo though it's likely referring to the much stronger Half Corrupted version.

[Marlowe89]

Each set seems to contain at least three eras.

Yes, but as seen in the image you posted, the packaging for that set appears to only display characters from the Future Trunks arc in front of the card images. The fact that Goku is shown alongside them (combined with his gi) is pretty much a surefire indicator that it's the same SS3 Goku we saw sparring with Trunks at the beginning of the arc.

As for base Black, Trunks implied that he was a bit stronger than Goku in that form after their sparring match so it fits. Broly's indeed an interesting case, but his power also happens to match up with Kale's which kind of makes sense.

[SayianBeyondGod]

When you have Spirit sword Trunks weaker than Merged Zamasu and Vegetto, stronger than Kefla, whose SSJ1 was outright stated to "equal" a stronger Genki Dama in the TOP, these cards go where Toppo said Freeza goes.

That doesn't make sense, wouldn't fatigue SSBKK Goku also rival it since he was overpowering her majority of the time until he ran out of stamina.

[Hugo Boss]

When you have Spirit sword Trunks weaker than Merged Zamasu and Vegetto, stronger than Kefla, whose SSJ1 was outright stated to "equal" a stronger Genki Dama in the TOP, these cards go where Toppo said Freeza goes.

That doesn't make sense, wouldn't fatigue SSBKK Goku also rival it since he was overpowering her majority of the time until he ran out of stamina.

If anything these stickers are compatible with the implication that Goku wasn’t even close to his full power when he fought Kefla in his god forms or that Kefla’s gigantic energy rivaled genkidama in the sense that it pressured Goku to break his limits again.

[ankokudaishogun]

Just to spice up everything... in SuperDBH King Vegeta:Xeno is stronger than Beerus. Effect of fully accepting the power of The Mask, apparently

[JazzMazz]

Here's a collation of every single image that I could find for the card decks(Some cards may be repeated or shown more than once).[spoiler][/spoiler]

Still nothing on what that Gohan is supposed to be? He looks like Base Gohan and not Ultimate Gohan which has the bang included.

So why is the number higher than Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla and Piccolo?

I'm pretty sure that's just base Gohan at the time of the TOP. I would say its a tad high, but I'm pretty confident that's the character they're trying to depict(which makes sense, since his shown in the anime at least to be more capable than Piccolo in the anime in his base form).

[Bullza]

I'm pretty sure that's just base Gohan at the time of the TOP. I would say its a tad high, but I'm pretty confident that's the character they're trying to depict(which makes sense, since his shown in the anime at least to be more capable than Piccolo in the anime in his base form).

Well I thought it was probably supposed to be Base Gohan as well but it's odd that there'd be such a huge difference from his number and Base Trunks and Caulifla only having 3,500.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Base Gohan isn't stronger than SSJ2 Caulifla, SSJ2 Goku, Android 17 or Final Form Frieza. Not seeing why these cards would have merit as an official powerscale especially when they aren't advertised that way. So while they're fun to look and ponder over, they aren't evidence for anything. They follow common sense strength rankings to an extent like Jiren>Goku>Vegeta>Gohan etc but do take liberties probably since they're merely for entertainment purposes.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Just to spice up everything... in SuperDBH King Vegeta:Xeno is stronger than Beerus. Effect of fully accepting the power of The Mask, apparently

Nothing special. Heroes characters are way broken than super characters. Base bardock was able to fuck up SS4 Gogeta who was amplified by what i think was a spirit bomb

[Sora Saiyan]

The numbers on these cards are pretty interesting. The scale on them seems to be pretty good, obviously there's some issues, but overall I think they're decent. One interesting point is a current SSJB Vegetto would probablay be stronger than Jiren, as before he was made up of two fighters weaker than Black. I would say current Blue Vegeta is equal to current Blue Goku judging by Vegetas display against base Toppo, and later Jiren. So both would have surpassed Black according to the cards.

One thing I love is that SSJBE is equal with omen. That's a really nice touch for me, and that makes me want to see it in the manga even more, plus with how MSSJB was treated in the manga I would say Vegeta needs something else If he's gonna hang around til very close to the end.

[Marlowe89]

Still nothing on what that Gohan is supposed to be? He looks like Base Gohan and not Ultimate Gohan which has the bang included.

So why is the number higher than Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla and Piccolo?

I managed to get a better look at the card depicting Super Saiyan Gohan from the Universe Survival arc in much higher quality (you can find it on MsDBZBabe's Tumblr) and his level is only "4800", so I don't know what's going on with that supposedly-base Gohan one. It's possible that whoever assigned the number may have thought he was in his Ultimate form for that set.

This actually kind of ties into the whole debate on whether Ultimate is supposed to be a transformation. If I'm not mistaken, we never did see Gohan use any of his Super Saiyan forms during the Tournament of Power.

[Bullza]

I'm not sure if it was in the same set of what but that Super Saiyan Gohan was at a lower number than Good Buu. Piccolo was also lower than Good Buu but higher than Super Saiyan Gohan.

So I don't know how that all ties in with Base Goku supposedly ​being above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Gohan being a match for him.

[Rally 07]

That doesn't make sense, wouldn't fatigue SSBKK Goku also rival it since he was overpowering her majority of the time until he ran out of stamina.

Well yes. Hell even the first Ultra Instinct Omen Gokou from Super episode 110 likely rivals the Genkidama as well. Then later on in the Tournament of Power, Super Saiyan Blue Gokou and Vegeta receive Zenkai Boosts from fighting Jiren as they're able to push him to use more power whereas Super Saiyan Blue w/ Kaioken x 20, and the first Ultra Instinct Omen couldn't push Jiren to use so much power. And yet there are still people who don't take into account that Gokou and Vegeta have gotten stronger due to them fighting Jiren and receiving Zenkai Boosts .

So yes both Super Saiyan Kefura and Super Saiyan Blue w/ Kaioken definitely rival the Genkidama from Super episode 109.

[Rally 07]

When you have Spirit sword Trunks weaker than Merged Zamasu and Vegetto, stronger than Kefla, whose SSJ1 was outright stated to "equal" a stronger Genki Dama in the TOP, these cards go where Toppo said Freeza goes.

I wouldn't say Super Saiyan Kefura EQUALS the Genkidama to be honest. The word "rival" doesn't necessarily equate to matching especially in Dragon Ball. I mean the word rival could be synonymously used with words like "relative", "relativistic", "similar", "comparable" etc.

[Miracles]

That doesn't make sense, wouldn't fatigue SSBKK Goku also rival it since he was overpowering her majority of the time until he ran out of stamina.

Kefla took a clean hit in the gut from Goku and kept pushing. Goku took a clean hit from Kefla and got ONE shotted KO'd out of Blue. That demonstrates the power of Genki dama.

I wouldn't say Super Saiyan Kefura EQUALS the Genkidama to be honest. The word "rival" doesn't necessarily equate to matching especially in Dragon Ball. I mean the word rival could be synonymously used with words like "relative", "relativistic", "similar", "comparable" etc.

Except in this case, the context IS Kelfa actually being equal to the Genki dama in raw power.

Whis: "The trigger that set it off this time was probably Kelfa."
Beerus: "Her massive energy."
Whis: "Yes."

[Rally 07]

Kefla took a clean hit in the gut from Goku and kept pushing. Goku took a clean hit from Kefla and got ONE shotted KO'd out of Blue. That demonstrates the power of Genki dama.

I actually somewhat agree with that. I mean the kick could not only demonstrate the power of the Genkidama, but it could mean Kefura was possibly suppressed and then powered up without warning. Either that, or like any Saiyan (Considering how both Kale and Caulifla got gradually grew more and more powerful) got more powerful in the middle of a battle then overpowered and knocked down Gokou.

Except in this case, the context IS Kelfa actually being equal to the Genki dama in raw power.

Well she's stated to rival the Genkidama as a Super Saiyan rather than straight up match it. Also that statement of Whis' shouldn't be seen not only as a comparison of power between Kefura and the Genkidama but also as a comparison in role/ability as well. Rival doesn't necessarily equate to match.

Whis: -「今度の発動の引き金はおそらくケフラさん」

Kondo no hatsudou no hikigane wa osoraku kefura-san
The trigger this time appears to have been Kefura

Beerus: -「奴の巨大な気が…」
Yatsu no kyoudai na ki ga...
Her gigantic Ki...

Whis: -「ええ。元気玉を浴びた時のパワーに匹敵するほどのケフラさんの気が悟空さんを刺激して、またひとつ己の限界の殻を破ったのでしょう」

Ee. Genkidama wo abita toki no pawaa ni hittekisuru hodo no kefura-san no ki ga gokuu-san wo shigekishite mata hitotsu onore no genkai no kara wo yabutta no deshou.
Indeed. I presume Kefura's Ki, who rivaled the Genkidama, acted as a stimulus and allowed Gokou to once again break through his limits.

[JazzMazz]

That doesn't make sense, wouldn't fatigue SSBKK Goku also rival it since he was overpowering her majority of the time until he ran out of stamina.

Kefla took a clean hit in the gut from Goku and kept pushing. Goku took a clean hit from Kefla and got ONE shotted KO'd out of Blue. That demonstrates the power of Genki dama.

I wouldn't say Super Saiyan Kefura EQUALS the Genkidama to be honest. The word "rival" doesn't necessarily equate to matching especially in Dragon Ball. I mean the word rival could be synonymously used with words like "relative", "relativistic", "similar", "comparable" etc.

Except in this case, the context IS Kelfa actually being equal to the Genki dama in raw power.

Whis: "The trigger that set it off this time was probably Kelfa."
Beerus: "Her massive energy."
Whis: "Yes."

I feel like that's completely ignoring the context of what was happening in the fight. Goku got KO'd for two reasons that are actually important consider. A) He was, as was everyone else, taken by surprise by the attack, due to him believing his Kamehameha would have finished the fight, and B) He literally couldn't continue fighting, as he had already wasted his final efforts on a Kamehameha that had missed, he was pretty much defenceless, at that point.

Kefla was extra-ordinarily powerful, but I think only looking at the final results for the fight, without considering the actual context to why that happened, leads to people vastly over-estimating how powerful other characters really are.

[CJStriker_CBR]

I found one with Super Ribrianne and Cabba to those who care

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Glad you found some of the Stickers, espically the ones with Ribrianne on them. I have been searching ebay so far for some and so far I have only found 2 of those to add for my Ribrianne/Universe 2 Collection, but happy with those that I have so far in stickers alone with how hard they are to come by.

Here is an Image of the 2 I got so far;

[spoiler][/spoiler]