It is incredibly hard to read your comments. I don't know if you already try your best but if not I would really appreciate phrasing them more comprehensible.
Tai Lung wrote:
Rildo has a fight with Goku to the point of transforming into SSJ, then we see that a stronger version of Rildo receiving hits of pan.
so then pan is stronger than Buu?
Since when is taking a hit from a character actually requiring a character to be on the level of xyz? Was Sorbet's ring on the level of Goku? Was Kuririn's power when he threw a rock at Goku on SSJ Goku's level? Was Tenshinhan on par with Semi-Perfect Cell just so he could stop him for a few seconds. As a matter of fact the moment Rildo tanked Pan's punch with just his face, grabbing her arm and throwing her away should tell you already enough.
Tai Lung wrote:
then we see that goku in base easily destroys rildo even though before he could not.
No one except you says he "could not". Goku barely fought serious before he met Baby. As a matter of fact he transformed A SINGLE TIME into SSJ2 for a brief moment against Rildo but decided to stay either base or SSJ most of the time. There is no "he could not". He just did not. That is a big difference.
Tai Lung wrote:
there is no information about the power of uub before merging, goku only trained to release its potential "kid buu" later merged with mr buu should have the level of super buu because there is nothing tell to be stronger not even a comment
If anything there is no telling "Kid Boo" merged with Mr. Boo. Kid Boo does no longer exist. Oob has an incredibly high potential being the reincarnated Kid Boo and that's really it. There was NEVER any saying "have that potential trained and that means you have just the power of Kid Boo"". That is your deduction from I don't know where. And yes, there is something that tells he is a lot stronger. I showed you previously it can hardly function that Majoob is so pathetically weak because it would squeeze together all Rildo forms, Majoob, Goku's Controlled Tailed SSJ3 and almost all of Baby's forms to a narrow Boo saga scale in which the forms hardly mean anything special when it comes to power boost and for what? Just so you can say "Vegetto from Z is the one". You are giving the characters with all their ridiculous forms an extremely sparse space to grow just to make that statement. I hardly ever defend Dragon Ball when it comes to such things because Dragon Ball is just what it is but you are really trying to limit things just for the sake of it and no one really honestly thinking about how idiotically high the power gains in Dragon Ball can become can seriously and in all fairness think "yeah all of the above mentioned characters with their forms are squeezed together in that right Z Boo arc spot".
Tai Lung wrote:
and majuub gives a fight to baby vegeta so if the statement of goku is contradictory
No it is not contradictory because for it to be contradictory it would require your other statement to be true. You are trying to form an axiom (a claim that has no derivation because it is the starting point but has to be so logical and without any contradictions that it does not need to be proven in the first place and then you can start building other things on top of that - basic science; mathematics for example has tons of axioms) here to base things on but the problem is the thing you have is not even close to an axiom.
Tai Lung wrote:
Incidentally many characters stopped training for peace times because they lost power or condition
Goku trained, Vegeta trained, Oob trained. Seems to me like these "many characters" you speak of do not really exist. Obviously you mean Goten, Gohan and Trunks (as your next sentence implies) but there is never any actual saying that this is a real thing. Not that I would not believe that for someone like Goten because vol. 42 shows he is too lazy to train with Goku but this whole "they all did not train therefore they are weaker" is ridiculously speculative so I do not know what this comment of yours should amount to as it lacks actual substance that can be used.
Tai Lung wrote:
gohan, goten and trunks the proof is that gohan becomes ssj when that was no longer necessary
No, that is no "proof". You guys are constantly misusing the term proof and that gives an actual scientist like me a serious headache. Your logical derivation is almost non-existent here. There is no saying that "SSJ -> btw. this means they got weaker because Elder Kai said transformations are not the solution". We have SEEN Toei is a sucker for traditional SSJ forms. Gohan was even supposed to use it against Beerus. Dragon Ball GT heavily focused on Base, SSJ and SSJ4. SSJ2 and SSJ3 were hardly ever used. So there is no wonder why no additional forms or power ups from other characters like contrabass-playing Goten or ice cream-eating Pan was used. Vegeta also did not use Super Saiyajin 2 (or at least Toei made no effort differentiating here). Do you think Vegeta was also so pathetically weak he no longer had that form (and I mean notmal Vegeta, not Vegeta Baby with his Super Tsufurujin transformations). I hate this constant fan thinking of fans thinking Gohan can or should no longer use bla, etc. Gohan always could use Super Saiyajin after getting the Ultimate Kaioushin gift. Goku flat out asks "shall we fuse as SSJ?" And Gohan transforms for the ritual in Battle of Gods. Now you can say "but it still should not be necessary" but Toei never cared for that in GT. And as said, not even in Battle of Gods. They literally RECOLOURED SSJ (surely can still be seen online somewhere in an old trailer) against Beerus to make it Ultimate instead.
Tai Lung wrote:
reason why baby chose vegeta to inhabit it because the others were inferior.
Your point? Of course they are inferior. Toei never treated Vegeta in GT like he was inferior to the others. That does not make them the weaklings you claim. And no, from a narrative perspective it is a lot more effective and dramatic for the final boss to take over the prince's body. There is no meaning behind SSJ4 Goku VS Gohan or Goten Baby. Completely different narration.
Tai Lung wrote:
vegeta gets "god ki" and you can see his clone humiliate to gotenks later cabba faces vegeta base that means that cabba is stronger than gotenks? obviously it is contradictory so I do not take it into account
That is not how such a deduction is made. Also no, it is not obviously contradictory because you just claim that Gotenks is stronger than Cabba and that's it. You are making up facts to say the other thing is contradictory to your point. And while you say "if you believe this" I have to tell you, again, it is incredibly ridiculous to say such a thing about a franchise like this, but oh well ... researching for facts is no matter of "believing". If you have no unequivocal thing to derive from you still take the most logical approach to get the most plausible deduction. But "I do not want Cabba to be stronger than Gotenks and thus xyz is weaker and thus statement xyz is contradictory and thus my point is right" is not the way to go. And as a sidenote I might add: Dragon Ball is fiction. There ARE contradictions indeed. But the system in which Dragon Ball exists can exist even with contradictions because it has no corporeal fabric that actual depends on internal consistency. This is why all plotholes and other errors are completely irrelevant for fiction and why all that matters is authority of a product saying "does not matter, we want it like that". Because owner intention is top priority, not fan arguments and wishes. Own the brand, own the rights.
And as a final reminder. Tadayoshi Yamamuro himself practically and in a subtle way already answered where SSJ4 power-wise stands back in 2015 during Entrevista when a guy wanted to annoy him with a canonicity question. So that's that. If you do not know that interview, he in a very nice way made a comment that subtly told the other guy SSJ4 is beyond SSJ God. So you can imagine SSJ4 is far beyond Z Vegetto. The way he did answer he practically set SSJ4 above all of Goku's Dragon Ball Super stuff because he went for chronology, but I do not want to go that way because I can already see a lot of comments of fans who have no decisive power not accepting what an official employee says and bleh bleh does not fit my misunderstanding of the word canon and bleh makes no sense bleh GT sucks - you know such people really exist - so I'll leave it at that.
Anyway, same discussions as always, I'm out. Take what you want to learn from it or don't.