PFM18 wrote:
It is essentially there to establish that Goku and Vegeta learned to harness the power of SSG, without actually using the SSG form, and that they have a new form that is much stronger than that.
That "new form", as specified by the dialogue's phrasing, is the Super Saiyan version of Saiyan-with-the-power-of-Super-Saiyan-God. There is nothing vague about this statement whatsoever, and the root description couldn't have been referring to Goku's Super Saiyan form because (for the final time) there's
already a Super Saiyan modifier for it. The root also makes no reference to Super Saiyan itself and simply calls the state "Saiyan", which is self-explanatory.
This exact piece of dialogue was also presented word-for-word in the film, which the supplemental materials provided additional context for by showing/stating that Goku and Vegeta are able to utilize this power in their base forms and then change into SSGSS by becoming Super Saiyan. This means those materials directly tie into Goku's stated definition for the form, which was completely unchanged for
Super, which means you would need to suppose that it somehow meant something arbitrarily different for the TV adaptation despite using the same phrasing. Of course such an assumption is complete nonsense and definitely wasn't the intention of the writing staff.
Honestly, it's amazing that you continue to actively ignore how specific this phrasing actually is without being able to explain what supposedly makes it vague. Last time I'm repeating/explaining how this works, otherwise I'm just going to assume that the basic rules of linguistics are apparently over your head.
PFM18 wrote:
HOWEVER, when Goku refers to Vegeta surpassing him then it means that Vegeta is stronger than Goku.
Colloquially speaking, that's exactly why Goku couldn't have been comparing just their base forms. Like every other character in the series making remarks of this kind, he's not qualifying that with
any kind of arbitrary power-up condition. He's calling BASE Vegeta's power unrecognizable; he's saying that BASE Vegeta might have surpassed him, and that's without regard to form since Goku has (as far as he knows) access to higher transformations like Super Saiyan 3. If Goku wasn't taking his own
best power into account and still had access to his golden Super Saiyan stages, it would have potentially made the statement redundant or false.
PFM18 wrote:
Again, you are missing the point. The way that you rationalized it would require a retcon to be the case because it would contradict what you believe to have established.
This doesn't show that I'm missing the point, it shows that you're completely failing to comprehend the scope of the argument. Our chain of replies started in the first place because I was backing up
Saturnine's point, which was that a retcon would have needed to occur between the RoF and U6 arcs.
Yes, it
would have required a retcon to be the case. That retcon happened within
Super, not at any point before.