Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

[gokaiblue]

I am ignorant because I consider the legacy cast to be bad? Please, inform me on how I should judge voice acting ability.

To paraphrase OG Funi dub Piccolo, with your ears.

In all seriousness, perhaps with much less venom? Maybe not insult them as actors but just judge their performances eithout insults. You can say "Sean Schemmel sounds forced," and we can discuss whether that assertion is correct. However, saying he and the rest are "bargain barrel hacks" spits in the face of their improvement instead of simply showing areas that are lacking.

[Kamiccolo9]

I am ignorant because I consider the legacy cast to be bad? Please, inform me on how I should judge voice acting ability.

I didn’t say you’re ignorant for having an opinion. I don’t know how many times I need to hammer this point home, but I don’t give a shit about any of these voice actors. If they got struck by lightning and fell off a building, I wouldn’t have any real reaction to it. I said that it’s ignorant to judge a person’s acting credentials simply because you don’t like their performance. I’m not saying that makes you an ignorant person. I’m saying that it comes across as an ignorant statement. Dislike their performances all you want. I have no feelings on that. I don’t know these people. I just don’t see what makes you or me qualified to judge a person’s talent because of personal opinions. It’s pointless and childish.

So I'm supposed to judge their acting ability by some other measure than their ability to act?

[gokaiblue]

I am ignorant because I consider the legacy cast to be bad? Please, inform me on how I should judge voice acting ability.

I didn’t say you’re ignorant for having an opinion. I don’t know how many times I need to hammer this point home, but I don’t give a shit about any of these voice actors. If they got struck by lightning and fell off a building, I wouldn’t have any real reaction to it. I said that it’s ignorant to judge a person’s acting credentials simply because you don’t like their performance. I’m not saying that makes you an ignorant person. I’m saying that it comes across as an ignorant statement. Dislike their performances all you want. I have no feelings on that. I don’t know these people. I just don’t see what makes you or me qualified to judge a person’s talent because of personal opinions. It’s pointless and childish.

So I'm supposed to judge their acting ability by some other measure than their ability to act?

That's not what he's saying at all. The problem is you use a blanket term "bargain barrel hack" that seems to apply for all of their performances even those outside of Dragon Ball, and if you can honestly tell me that these actors are horrible in ever role they play in any production, then you're going into dangerous territory there. You can not like their performance as a specifuc character, but don't call them a "hack" based on that alone.

[Kunzait_83]

I never ever claimed that it’s bad to not like a performance, or to think that they should be replaced. I claimed that it’s uncalled for to state that an actor has no talent, and is therefore a “basement-level hack”.

...

I just think that calling people talentless “basement level hacks” is not only uncalled for, but is also incredibly pretentious and condescending.

If you're okay with someone saying they don't like an actor's performance and that they should be replaced... then why is suggesting they have no talent for acting somehow stepping over some moral event horizon for you? I'm just totally lost and baffled by this particular sticking point: if someone does something that requires talent, and consistently shows that they aren't any good at it across any number of years... how is it out of line to suggest they aren't talented?

I also took issue with this implication that your opinions are undisputed facts.

I didn't imply this at all. You're completely reading that into my posts based on pretty much nothing.

Just because I'm harsh doesn't mean I think of my opinions as "facts". This idea that "you think that your opinions are facts" is something I've long been getting VERY tired of having to argue against, and its increasingly struck me (as I once in a great while go back and look through some of my older posts trying to zero-in on and find what it could be that I've said that makes some people constantly go back to that claim, so that maybe I could improve my future posting) as something people resort to leveling at me mainly because they don't like my "tone" or whatever. Which, if that's the case, is incredibly silly and stupid in itself.

Where are the mixed signals?

I was referring to this.

I never suggested that it was bad to express your dislike for their performances, or to express the desire to see them replaced.

Followed shortly by:

I’m simply pointing out that calling someone a “basement-level hack” is an unnecessary statement in general. You generally don’t call someone that unless you’re trying to imply that they’re completely without talent and don’t deserve to work, which seems like a childish statement to make. I don’t care for Schemmel or Santa as people, but I do think that it’s unreasonable to make such a condescending remark about them as professional voice actors.

By calling them talentless, I'm saying that I don't like their performances and think they shouldn't be in those roles anymore. Yes, I think that these performances reflect VERY poorly on them as actors, enough for me to call their level of talent into question.

The "mixed signals" is that on one hand you say you don't care about the dub and the actors and have no beef with anyone saying they suck and should be recast... but then immediately follow up with saying that calling them a hack is too far, because "you're implying that they have no talent and they don't deserve to work".

Well... yeah. I DON'T think they have any talent for voice acting: certainly not at least as THESE characters anyway, and I DON'T think they should be getting work for them anymore.

This all seems to stem from your weird hang-up with someone calling an actor "talentless", when that's a TOTALLY fair (if harsh) criticism of the work that they do professionally. There's a LOT of professional actors working out there who probably shouldn't be because they genuinely AREN'T good at acting at all, but get the work anyway because they know people and have connections within the industry.

Per this remark here:

I couldn’t care less about Funimation as a company, or how they acquired Dragon Ball, and I think you’re seriously overestimating how much other people care about them.

I'm not overestimating nor even making ANY claims about how much people "care" about FUNimation as a company and how they acquired DB. I ONLY brought that up to note that nepotistic business practices are literally BAKED INTO the company's very origins and foundations, hence why someone like myself (or Kamiccolo) might raise the charge that part of the reason these actors maintain these roles, despite clearly lacking in them, is due to company nepotism and networking among them. It ISN'T to be needlessly mean or insulting: its because FUNimation has a long history with this type of thing.

And by the way, yes, you'll find that there are a LOT of fans in this community who, for whatever reasons, DO indeed care a GREAT deal about FUNimation as a company. I don't get it at all myself: I think that they're a largely terrible anime licensing company (and not at all just for their work with DB, but a whole host of other issues throughout the years): but they certainly have built a very large, passionate, and loyal fan following who look to them (however ill-advised and ridiculously stupid I personally feel it is to do so) as taste-makers and trend-setters within the U.S. anime industry.

[Fionordequester]

Why? Is it regardless of context (i.e. the quality of the tweaks)?

If you want to be swept up in the ride, those "little details" matter a lot. They're usually the difference between something being crap being written by a hack vs. something great.

Indeed. Fortunately, FUNi (in my opinion) didn't change any of the details that were important in accomplishing that. In fact, they actually added to my enjoyment in several key scenes of Episode 66 (the one where Trunks kills Zamasu's physical body).

Kaioshin: He's not healing, but falling apart?!

Gowasu: That ugly form...That is Zamasu's complex emotions made real.

Kaioshin: His emotions?

Gowasu: Zamasu was too obsessed with the contradiction between gods and mortals. Why the mortals make mistakes and fight each other. Why the gods forgive mortals. Why gods and mortals share similar forms. But Zamasu...that form full of rage and hate. Was that the form you wished for? If mortals are wiped out, will that satisfy your emotions?

Kaioshin: Look at him...his body is unstable. It's losing it's form...

Gowasu: Twisting into something hideous. This is the physical embodiment of what he feels within.

Kaioshin: How so?

Gowasu: He is obsessed; fixated on the contradictions between gods and mortals. If mortals have the capacity for wisdom...why do they so often fail? If gods see their actions as wicked...why do they tolerate and forgive? How can gods and mortals seem so different, and yet so alike? What is the point of it all? Zamasu seeks beauty. Yet, look at his body, distorted by hatred and rage. I wonder...is that really the result that he craved? A broken and misshapen god, alone in an empty cosmos? How fulfilled will he be, then?

This here is one of the prime examples of a moment I felt came across way better in the dub than in the sub. I hated Episode 66 when it first came onto Crunchyroll. It seemed like an utter disaster; a long stream of retcons and deux ex machinas, coming from writers desperately trying to wrap up the arc after spending too much time dawdling in the previous episodes. And I had no idea how Gowasu's monologue fit into the larger picture. At the time, it seemed like a random cutaway from the action I actually wanted to watch (Vegetto vs. Zamasu).

But in FUNi's dub, they were quite a bit more detailed in how they explored the themes going on in that episode. Detailed enough that I went "Ohhhhhh...so THAT'S what the point of those scenes were!". It was explaining just what was going on with Zamasu's body; and why it was possible for Trunks to defeat him, despite the overwhelming power gap.

Zamasu's body wasn't JUST becoming ugly; it was falling apart. It wasn't that Trunk's Spirit Sword was somehow way stronger than the Final Kamehameha (as it seemed when I watched it on Crunchyroll). It was that Merged Zamasu's body was becoming more and more fragile as the battle was raging on (hence Kaioshin's comment about "his body losing it's form"). And due to that, piercing attacks absolutely wrecked Zamasu's body in a way that most conventional attacks didn't (hence why the episode spent so much time lingering on when Vegetto stabbed Merged Zamasu with his Energy Sword; it was foreshadowing).

Not only was the writing exceptional in the dub script; it was also clearer...more detailed...and more emotionally charged. I felt like I was getting nuances that normally would've been lost in a more literal translation. It painted a picture in my head about what was going on, in a way that Crunchyroll's subs didn't. It was like FUNi itself shared my confusion, asked the Toei writers what was going on, and then made sure to add further clarification on what they were saying. Because they knew guys like me wouldn't get it if they explained it exactly the way Crunchyroll's subs did.

[Zephyr]

things

stuff

Maybe I'm just not reading things right, but I'm noticing a pattern of inconsistent and mutually exclusive justification for this whole deal:

If Super was already cool, then there's no need for it to change. If these changes are that minimal, then you're pretty much just watching the same thing again. If changing so little is enough to make it feel fresh, then you're probably not as bored with it as you think, and a fully accurate dub wouldn't be as boring as you think. If people didn't care about small details, then they wouldn't be noticing and praising these "small inconsequential" changes that the dub is providing.

And, again, if Super is too fresh and recent for you to rewatch the same thing, and these changes are so small that it is just the same thing, then you should probably go do something else until Super is less fresh in your mind.

I also don't see how that expanded dialog in the dub makes things more clear than they already were. Another thing to take into consideration is that the dub of that scene was at least your second time viewing it, whereas the subtitled version was your initial viewing. Even when it's in the same language, and the dialog is exactly the same, it's natural for the viewer to notice more things on subsequent viewings, connect more dots, etc.

[Chrono Trigger]

I grew up watching the various Funi-dubs but after watching Super in Japanese throughout it's run...I gotta say the Funi-dub is just terrible. Outside of like the newer folks they've cast it's just hot garbage. On every level. It doesn't even feel like the same show when I spot check the dub. When I watched the original it all felt so believable. You really just get sucked in. I don't get that feeling with the dub. They all just sound like a bunch of people in a booth, reading lines out one at a time, and trying to sound like they're acting. It doesn't help that Funimation doesn't seem to understand these characters at all. The best example being Vegeta. In the original he comes off as a person with a range of emotions. When he gets angry or annoyed it's usually for a good reason but otherwise he talks like a normal person. Meanwhile with Sabat it's just this constant...whiny...wanna be badass kind of tone. Seriously watch the dub and just focus on his Vegeta. Every time he opens his mouth it's always this tone that's like "This character is known for being grumpy/rude so let's make him have this tone no matter what's happening on screen". I don't know how people can stand it. That's NOT Vegeta...and he isn't even my favorite character.

[ABED]

Every time he opens his mouth it's always this tone that's like "This character is known for being grumpy/rude so let's make him have this tone no matter what's happening on screen". I don't know how people can stand it. That's NOT Vegeta...and he isn't even my favorite character.

Vegeta is an arrogant dick and he is often grumpy. Are you talking strickly Super?

[WittyUsername]

I never ever claimed that it’s bad to not like a performance, or to think that they should be replaced. I claimed that it’s uncalled for to state that an actor has no talent, and is therefore a “basement-level hack”.

...

I just think that calling people talentless “basement level hacks” is not only uncalled for, but is also incredibly pretentious and condescending.

If you're okay with someone saying they don't like an actor's performance and that they should be replaced... then why is suggesting they have no talent for acting somehow stepping over some moral event horizon for you? I'm just totally lost and baffled by this particular sticking point: if someone does something that requires talent, and consistently shows that they aren't any good at it across any number of years... how is it out of line to suggest they aren't talented?

I also took issue with this implication that your opinions are undisputed facts.

I didn't imply this at all. You're completely reading that into my posts based on pretty much nothing.

Just because I'm harsh doesn't mean I think of my opinions as "facts". This idea that "you think that your opinions are facts" is something I've long been getting VERY tired of having to argue against, and its increasingly struck me (as I once in a great while go back and look through some of my older posts trying to zero-in on and find what it could be that I've said that makes some people constantly go back to that claim, so that maybe I could improve my future posting) as something people resort to leveling at me mainly because they don't like my "tone" or whatever. Which, if that's the case, is incredibly silly and stupid in itself.

Where are the mixed signals?

I was referring to this.

I never suggested that it was bad to express your dislike for their performances, or to express the desire to see them replaced.

Followed shortly by:

I’m simply pointing out that calling someone a “basement-level hack” is an unnecessary statement in general. You generally don’t call someone that unless you’re trying to imply that they’re completely without talent and don’t deserve to work, which seems like a childish statement to make. I don’t care for Schemmel or Santa as people, but I do think that it’s unreasonable to make such a condescending remark about them as professional voice actors.

By calling them talentless, I'm saying that I don't like their performances and think they shouldn't be in those roles anymore. Yes, I think that these performances reflect VERY poorly on them as actors, enough for me to call their level of talent into question.

The "mixed signals" is that on one hand you say you don't care about the dub and the actors and have no beef with anyone saying they suck and should be recast... but then immediately follow up with saying that calling them a hack is too far, because "you're implying that they have no talent and they don't deserve to work".

Well... yeah. I DON'T think they have any talent for voice acting: certainly not at least THESE characters anyway, and I DON'T think they should be getting work for them anymore.

This all seems to stem from your weird hang-up with someone calling an actor "talentless", when that's a TOTALLY fair (if harsh) criticism of the work that they do professionally. There's a LOT of professional actors working out there who probably shouldn't be because they genuinely AREN'T good at acting at all, but get the work anyway because they know people and have connections within the industry.

Per this remark here:

I couldn’t care less about Funimation as a company, or how they acquired Dragon Ball, and I think you’re seriously overestimating how much other people care about them.

I'm not overestimating nor even making ANY claims about how much people "care" about FUNimation as a company and how they acquired DB. I ONLY brought that up to note that nepotistic business practices are literally BAKED INTO the company's very origins and foundations, hence why someone like myself (or Kamiccolo) might raise the charge that part of the reason these actors maintain these roles, despite clearly lacking in them, is due to company nepotism and networking among them. It ISN'T to be needlessly mean or insulting: its because FUNimation has a long history with this type of thing.

And by the way, yes, you'll find that there are a LOT of fans in this community who, for whatever reasons, DO indeed care a GREAT deal about FUNimation as a company. I don't get it at all myself: I think that they're a largely terrible anime licensing company (and not at all just for their work with DB, but a whole host of other issues throughout the years): but they certainly have built a very large, passionate, and loyal fan following who look to them (however ill-advised and ridiculously stupid I personally feel it is to do so) as taste-makers and trend-setters within the U.S. anime industry.

I take issue with saying that someone has no talent because I don’t understand how your personal opinions on their performance is somehow proof of anything. I take issue with the “no talent” argument in general, especially when it’s layered in a good helping of “this person is a hack”. Who are any of us to decide whether or not someone is talented? It’s not our position to argue about stuff like that, so why make those kinds of statements in the first place? What’s the point of that?

Seriously, dislike a performance all you want. I never ever suggested that you or anyone else isn’t entitled to that. I was suggesting that you can express dislike for a performance without trying to act as though you’re some kind of talent-detecting God. Likewise, I was also suggesting that unless you’re personally involved in the industry, you’re in no position to claim that an actor is only able to get work because of nepotism. That’s a baseless statement to make. If I was a professional voice actor, I’d be pretty fucking annoyed at that suggestion.

Finally, I definitely think you’re overestimating how much people care about a dubbing company. Funimation isn’t successful because they have a loyal following of cult-like followers. They’re successful because they got lucky with Dragon Ball, and because they’re one of the few anime dubbing companies that are still around.

[Fionordequester]

If Super was already cool, then there's no need for it to change.

It doesn't NEED to change; in the same way I don't NEED chocolate sundae on my vanilla ice cream. I'm ok with it both ways, but I still prefer the way I got.

If these changes are that minimal, then you're pretty much just watching the same thing again. If changing so little is enough to make it feel fresh, then you're probably not as bored with it as you think, and a fully accurate dub wouldn't be as boring as you think. If people didn't care about small details, then they wouldn't be noticing and praising these "small inconsequential" changes that the dub is providing.

Here's your mistake: I'm not putting myself in the same category as "most people". I DO notice the little details. I'm a hardcore enough Dragon Ball fan that I actually made an account on Kanzenshuu. I just don't MIND the little changes. In fact, I enjoy them.

I also don't see how that expanded dialog in the dub makes things more clear than they already were.

Crunchyroll's subs: "Zamasu's hate is making him ugly"

FUNimation: "Zamasu's hate is making him ugly, and causing his body to fall apart"

Another thing to take into consideration is that the dub of that scene was at least your second time viewing it, whereas the subtitled version was your initial viewing. Even when it's in the same language, and the dialog is exactly the same, it's natural for the viewer to notice more things on subsequent viewings, connect more dots, etc.

True. I thought of that possibility. But I think it's more than that in this specific case.

[Kunzait_83]

In all seriousness, perhaps with much less venom? Maybe not insult them as actors but just judge their performances eithout insults. You can say "Sean Schemmel sounds forced," and we can discuss whether that assertion is correct. However, saying he and the rest are "bargain barrel hacks" spits in the face of their improvement instead of simply showing areas that are lacking.

This is part of what I was talking about: this weird obsession that many fans here have with everyone being respectful and deferential to the FUNimation cast's "acting abilities", as if they're the cast of a David Lean movie or something. The fans have consistently graded these people's shitty performances on a ludicrously lenient and WAY overly-generous curve for the better part of two decades now.

Why shouldn't someone be able to call out a bad actor's bad acting as being indicative of... that person just being a lousy actor?

And I also love that last sentence about "spitting in the face of their improving".

This COMPLETELY misses the point that myself and Kamiccolo were making: we don't think (or at least I certainly don't think) that the FUNimation cast has improved NEARLY all that much over the years. Just because its become "conventional wisdom" within fandom that "the FUNimation cast have gotten SO much better over the years!" doesn't therefore mean that ALL OF US agree unanimously and universally with that particular appraisal.

I think that what "improvement" the FUNi cast has made over the years has been ABSURDLY minor, to the point at times almost of splitting hairs. They've gone from straight up on their face laughable, to a much more conventional and polished sort of terrible: yeah sorry/not sorry, but that ISN'T the sort of "growth" that I find them to be deserving of any kind of praise for, especially after over TWENTY YEARS now of their doing these roles.

I think that when these guys have been doing these roles for THAT LONG (people have lived and died entire adult lives within twenty years) and have shown SO PITIFULLY LITTLE in the way of "progress" and such minuscule "improvement" within that time: I say fuck "dub iconography", fuck the fanbase's nostalgia, fuck what people are used to after 20 years... these guys are Just. Plain. TERRIBLE. In. These. Roles. And. NOTHING. Is. Ever. Going. To. Fix. That.

20 years is giving them WAY too much of a "chance" to "redeem" or "prove" themselves. They've had an INSANE number of chances across a positively ridiculous stretch of time. They're just bad actors who suck in these parts. Fuck the butthurt fan outcry that would result and just shitcan the entire damn lot of them already.

[WittyUsername]

In all seriousness, perhaps with much less venom? Maybe not insult them as actors but just judge their performances eithout insults. You can say "Sean Schemmel sounds forced," and we can discuss whether that assertion is correct. However, saying he and the rest are "bargain barrel hacks" spits in the face of their improvement instead of simply showing areas that are lacking.

This is part of what I was talking about: this weird obsession that many fans here have with everyone being respectful and deferential to the FUNimation cast's "acting abilities", as if they're the cast of a David Lean movie or something. The fans have consistently graded these people's shitty performances on a ludicrously lenient and WAY overly-generous curve for the better part of two decades now.

Why shouldn't someone be able to call out a bad actor's bad acting as being indicative of... that person just being a lousy actor?

And I also love that last sentence about "spitting in the face of their improving".

This COMPLETELY misses the point that myself and Kamiccolo were making: we don't think (or at least I certainly don't think) that the FUNimation cast has improved NEARLY all that much over the years. Just because its become "conventional wisdom" within fandom that "the FUNimation cast have gotten SO much better over the years!" doesn't therefore mean that ALL OF US agree unanimously and universally with that particular appraisal.

I think that what "improvement" the FUNi cast has made over the years has been ABSURDLY minor, to the point at times almost of splitting hairs. They've gone from straight up on their face laughable, to a much more conventional and polished sort of terrible: yeah sorry/not sorry, but that ISN'T the sort of "growth" that I find them to be deserving of any kind of praise for, especially after over TWENTY YEARS now of their doing these roles.

I think that when these guys have been doing these roles for THAT LONG (people have lived and died entire adult lives within twenty years) and have shown SO PITIFULLY LITTLE in the way of "progress" and such minuscule "improvement" within that time: I say fuck "iconography", fuck the fanbase's nostalgia, fuck what people are used to after 20 years... these guys are Just. Plain. TERRIBLE. In. These. Roles. And. NOTHING. Is. Ever. Going. To. Fix. That.

20 years is giving them WAY too much of a "chance" to "redeem" or "prove" themselves. They've had an INSANE number of chances across a positively ridiculous stretch of time. They're just bad actors who suck in these parts. Fuck the butthurt fan outcry that would result and just shitcan the entire damn lot of them already.

If the general consensus from most sub fans is that these guys have come a long way since they first started voicing these characters, and that they’re at least passable these days, why would they shitcan them? You seem to be under the impression that because you think a certain way, that some dubbing company should specifically pander to your wishes.

[Kamiccolo9]

I'm still agape at multiple people telling me that it's not fair to judge someone's ability to act by their performances!

What the absolute fuck are we supposed to judge it by, then? Sean Schemmel's ability to sing "Dragon Soul" in the shower? Christopher Sabat's people skills? The alignment of the planets and the coming of Gozer the Traveler?

I'm sorry, maybe if the cast want to be respected as actors, then they should, you know, get good at acting.

If I want to judge somebody's acting ability by their performances, you know, the things where they perform their acting, then what is wrong with that? Should I give them the benefit of the doubt because Sean Schemmel may have some amazing, life-changing performance in some Bleach commercial somewhere? Does Chris Sabat get a pass for his shitty Vegeta, which he's had over two decades to perfect, because he's an decent Marheit in Spice and Wolf?

I judge whether or not actors are good at acting by the products they act in. If their performances are not good, then, guess what, they aren't good actors. They can have all the hidden talent or whatever they want, I don't care.

[WittyUsername]

I'm still agape at multiple people telling me that it's not fair to judge someone's ability to act by their performances!

What the absolute fuck are we supposed to judge it by, then? Sean Schemmel's ability to sing "Dragon Soul" in the shower? Christopher Sabat's people skills? The alignment of the planets and the coming of Gozer the Traveler?

I'm sorry, maybe if the cast want to be respected as actors, then they should, you know, get good at acting.

If I want to judge somebody's acting ability by their performances, you know, the things where they perform their acting, then what is wrong with that? Should I give them the benefit of the doubt because Sean Schemmel may have some amazing, life-changing performance in some Bleach commercial somewhere? Does Chris Sabat get a pass for his shitty Vegeta, which he's had over two decades to perfect, because he's an decent Marheit in Spice and Wolf?

I judge whether or not actors are good at acting by the products they act in. If their performances are not good, then, guess what, they aren't good actors. They can have all the hidden talent or whatever they want, I don't care.

The problem is that you guys are operating under the assumption that because you personally feel a certain way about something, it means that your opinion is fact, and that you’re qualified to determine who is and who isn’t talented. Here’s the thing, I don’t care for Russell Crowe as an actor, but I’m not going to claim whether or not he’s talented, because my opinion is not gospel, and I’m not an actor myself.

[Zephyr]

I also don't see how that expanded dialog in the dub makes things more clear than they already were.

Crunchyroll's subs: "Zamasu's hate is making him ugly"

FUNimation: "Zamasu's hate is making him ugly, and causing his body to fall apart"

How was that not already clear? He was ugly because he was falling apart. He was clearly obviously falling apart, as indicated by half of his body being a melted purple mess. His ugliness and his decomposition are very clearly inextricably tied. So if something caused one, it naturally caused the other.

[Kamiccolo9]

The problem is that you guys are operating under the assumption that because you personally feel a certain way about something, it means that your opinion is fact, and that you’re qualified to determine who is and who isn’t talented. Here’s the thing, I don’t care for Russell Crowe as an actor, but I’m not going to claim whether or not he’s talented, because my opinion is not gospel, and I’m not an actor myself.

The thread title is literally asking for someone's judgment on the quality of the dubs. If you have issues with that, take it up with the OP.

[ABED]

You don't need to be an actor to judge a performance just like you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

[WittyUsername]

The problem is that you guys are operating under the assumption that because you personally feel a certain way about something, it means that your opinion is fact, and that you’re qualified to determine who is and who isn’t talented. Here’s the thing, I don’t care for Russell Crowe as an actor, but I’m not going to claim whether or not he’s talented, because my opinion is not gospel, and I’m not an actor myself.

The thread title is literally asking for someone's judgment on the quality of the dubs. If you have issues with that, take it up with the OP.

The thread is me asking about people’s personal opinions on which dub is better. It was never meant to be a debate about whether or not these actors are talented, especially when both dubs are made with the same people.

[WittyUsername]

You don't need to be an actor to judge a performance just like you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

I never claimed you can’t judge a performance. I said that it’s stupid to judge a person’s talent just because you personally don’t like a performance.

[Kamiccolo9]

You don't need to be an actor to judge a performance just like you don't need to be a chef to judge food.

I never claimed you can’t judge a performance. I said that it’s stupid to judge a person’s talent just because you personally don’t like a performance.

Again, what are we supposed to judge their ability by, if not their work?

The problem is that you guys are operating under the assumption that because you personally feel a certain way about something, it means that your opinion is fact, and that you’re qualified to determine who is and who isn’t talented. Here’s the thing, I don’t care for Russell Crowe as an actor, but I’m not going to claim whether or not he’s talented, because my opinion is not gospel, and I’m not an actor myself.

The thread title is literally asking for someone's judgment on the quality of the dubs. If you have issues with that, take it up with the OP.

The thread is me asking about people’s personal opinions on which dub is better. It was never meant to be a debate about whether or not these actors are talented, especially when both dubs are made with the same people.

The quality of the dub is inherently linked to the ability of the actors in the dub. This is a television show. Actors are an important part of that. The quality of those actors is directly connected to the quality of the show.