Vic Mignogna

[Fionordequester]

Well, Captain Sora; I posted the following quote you made to at least one Youtube video. Wanted to bring it to you, see if you approve of it, or have anything you would like to add to it.

"As someone who works in the legal profession [and has helped a family member through the trauma associated with sexual assault cases] I feel I’m somewhat qualified to offer the following opinion;

Statistically false allegations of sexual misconduct are few and far between. Instances where these actually go to trial are even rarer. There is a reason for the shift toward believing women and victims because the processes we have in place are actively hostile toward them, especially in the workplace...

None of you “let’s be cautious” dipshit kids [his words, not mine] have even the slightest understanding of the power dynamic of a sexual assault case. Bringing an action has a high personal cost in a system heavily skewed toward the accused. For instance in a simple battery offence you don’t have to prove consent, it’s pretty easily to convince a jury that a guy with bloody fists beat the shit out of a guy covered in bruises with some witness accounts and circumstantial evidence.

But proving consent in a sexual assault case involves a jury going through the defendants state of mind and whether the defendant at the time was first advertent to whether or not the victim was consenting and whether under the circumstances that belief was reasonable. This is an incredibly high bar to reach and often a thought process that many jurors struggle with.

This doesn’t even consider the hundreds of procedural indignities visited upon victims where in some jurisdictions if the accused is a self representing litigant they may cross examine the victim if they chose to give evidence.
.."

[Captain Awesome]

Well, Captain Sora; I posted the following quote you made to at least one Youtube video. Wanted to bring it to you, see if you approve of it, or have anything you would like to add to it.

I still stand by what I said although it was rather hastily written in frustration. But if you think its worth putting out there I don't have a problem with it.

[Fionordequester]

Gotcha. Good to know.

Anyway, about the video Son Dragon posted...

https://youtu.be/vVJYFC6Qrt0

...It was actually pretty alright. It WAS pretty objective. The only major thing was, he GREATLY underestimates how hard it is to actually FIND evidence in any sexual assault cases, nor did he seem to fully understand the struggles that sexual assault victims have. As a result, he equivocates the wrongs of the "KickVic" side with the wrongs of the "IStandWithVic" side. He says (and I paraphrase)...

"People should not have their lives ruined by someone just making an accusation, without any back up. However, people should NOT be hasty in dismissing any sexual assault claims that come up, just because the accused happens to be someone they like. That is equally immoral."

Still, he seems like someone worth following; someone worth discussing the issue with.

[Kokonoe]

https://youtu.be/vVJYFC6Qrt0

I thought this was pretty good video on the subect. Very objective pointed a few things I didn't know. Well balanced. Also sorry however I'm not going to transcribe it.

Clicked on the video and see this in the description.

The controversy has led to the KickVic movement and the opposing IStandWithVic side to battle it out over the internet with unhelpful presumptions, biases, and premature conclusions. Neither side has shown a willingness to be objective.

Yeah I have no time for this nonsense centrist both sides crap. To be as generalized as that is already a very big sign where this video is going to go.

-edit-

A video that goes over this topic, goes over what's happened, & claims to be objective? Why would we listen to this person?" Says at least on person in this thread.

After watching the video: Wow. Lots to think about here. Still hate that Vic had to go through this & I agree with most of the sentiments towards the end of it & emplore everyone to watch it.

And on said video you made this post.



Jesus christ.

[XanatosVanBadass]

In my experience, centrists/moderates are often just conservatives who are too cowardly to just admit it.

Also, this may be just be me, but can we fucking stop acting like the “ standwithvic” crowd are “mere children” please? Seriously, it’s dangerously naive to act like these people don’t know EXACTLY what they’re doing. Granted this may be my own personal experience because I actually interact with these people instead of looking at YouTube comments, but treating these people like their merely ill informed feels like you’re letting them off the hook. You aren’t talking to elementary school kids, people. 2016 should have taught you not to underestimate this shit.

[MasenkoHA]

Here we are almost 100 pages and people are still posting Youtube videos like they offer anything of value.


They don’t.

If you think the Youtube video from Joe Nobody is going to offer any new or interesting perspective on the matter an “objective hot take”’probably shouldn’t trust your intuition.

[DragonBallFan]

The problem is, they shouldn't have brought it out to twitter and the internet, this is becoming mob mentality, not to mention there have been numerous cases of people lying with evidence. As far as I'm concerned, if a women can come out and do this to a man, a man should be able to come out and do the same to a women. People forget that we are dealing with people that most likely despise Vic and there has been evidence to this. Look closely, Vic may have done somethings but he's explained to the news network's that he stopped when he was asked to. Yes, the KickVic and IStandWithVic have some real butt heads in those groups, but regardless, at first, multiple people came out, look into those people and you begin to see some fishy behavior, Monica and Vic were pretty much cheating with each other on their partners, everyone makes mistakes but that is really scummy.

You can make a judgement like EXVegito did because MULTIPLE people came out, but then later came evidence of the news site twisting Vic's words as well as people in private chats trying to lie to get Vic into even more trouble. Not to mention these VA's are acting very unprofessional.

And I want to say one more thing, we SHOULD, I know we don't all, but we should be in a society where victim's should be encouraged to come out and not be ashamed, because as harsh as it may sound, THEY have a responsibility to notify authorities, even if there's a way to do to anonymously, the authorities should still check it. By letting creeps go like this, and this goes for men and women, you are putting others in danger. Now obviously there are different variables that come in to play, but not everyone is affected the same way when they are sexually assaulted etc. That should be taken into consideration. Keep an open mind,. Someone has come forward about Jamie being inappropriate with them when they were younger, and she shamed and allowed this individual to be threatened, how come this is on?

[VegettoEX]

You're blaming the victims and engaging in whataboutism.

This is not OK.

[Son Dragon]

Here we are almost 100 pages and people are still posting Youtube videos like they offer anything of value.


They don’t.

If you think the Youtube video from Joe Nobody is going to offer any new or interesting perspective on the matter an “objective hot take”’probably shouldn’t trust your intuition.

It's fine. Thank you though.

[Fionordequester]

The problem is, they shouldn't have brought it out to twitter and the internet, this is becoming mob mentality, not to mention there have been numerous cases of people lying with evidence...

...like what? What, besides the SWAT incident, has been faked? ANN accidentally posted a misleading pic (which they have since removed, when they realize their error), and the Valerie Dave account has already been proven to be a troll account who's identity was stolen from another person...but none of those count as "lying".

What else is there?

[Fionordequester]

...No, wait, actually, I just remembered. That vid Scigg linked actually does have something interesting, at 13:42.

Remember how Sean Schemmel said that, as he was attempting to apologize for the SWAT story, that another person then tried to SWAT him? How the Richardson Police Department gave him a call, and asked if he was in trouble?

Well, it seems someone went and investigated that. The only Richardson Police Department they could find was one in Texas; where Sean Schemmel records for FUNimation. There's an actual audio interview with someone at said police department, and although giving someone a call WAS something they did for anything they didn't think was serious, the operator on the other end couldn't recall receiving any phone calls in regards to a "Sean Schemmel".

Now what that means, I don't know. It could just mean the SWATer gave the address, and not Schemmel's actual name. It could just be the guy on the other end missed something (believe me, that's all too common in large organizations like a police department). Or maybe Schemmel DID make it up, in order to save face. He always WAS kind of a hothead, sad as I am to say it.

Still, as long as I'm waiting to hear possible lies, I will grant DragonBallFan that. Everything else, though, as far as I could tell, was unsubstantiated nonsense.

[Scsigs]

https://youtu.be/vVJYFC6Qrt0

I thought this was pretty good video on the subect. Very objective pointed a few things I didn't know. Well balanced. Also sorry however I'm not going to transcribe it.

Clicked on the video and see this in the description.

The controversy has led to the KickVic movement and the opposing IStandWithVic side to battle it out over the internet with unhelpful presumptions, biases, and premature conclusions. Neither side has shown a willingness to be objective.

Yeah I have no time for this nonsense centrist both sides crap. To be as generalized as that is already a very big sign where this video is going to go.

-edit-

A video that goes over this topic, goes over what's happened, & claims to be objective? Why would we listen to this person?" Says at least on person in this thread.

After watching the video: Wow. Lots to think about here. Still hate that Vic had to go through this & I agree with most of the sentiments towards the end of it & emplore everyone to watch it.

And on said video you made this post.



Jesus christ.

Forgive the tone of that comment, as I also partially typed it in anger over how bad this situation got.

Yes. I agreed with the sentiments. However, after thinking about it more, it didn't seem like the people in the video really thought through all of what they were saying, mainly in trying to equate both sides of the argument, which I don't think you can really do, since both sides handled the situation differently from what I've seen. I still agree with most of the sentiments, though.
Did Vic do anything? Nothing that wasn't consensual is what they said. He IS a bit of a scumbag for cheating, or attempting to cheat, on his fiance, though. You don't do that.
Are the claims legitimate? Some, I'm sure. However, nothing got passed, "he made me uncomfortable", which he apologized for in both a verbal & written statement. I've already stated my thoughts on this specific thing here.
Is there faked evidence or claims, making those who accused him look bad? Yes. Some people were just in the business to make him look bad, deflating all of the people who had other claims that were most likely more legitimate. That also says nothing of Monica Rial, who handled the situation extremely poorly by threatening to report people who didn't believe her because she didn't provide details on why she hated Vic at first, making her look bad as a result. Then Sean, who believed a report of swatting because he hated Vic. He later retracted what he said about it when it was reported to be faked, but then he also accuses people of swatting HIM, which was found by people int he video to have been a fake claim. Doesn't make him look good.
Should Vic have lost his job at FUNi? No. He made people feel uncomfortable, a small minority of people out of thousands of people he's met after over a decade or 2 of going to conventions & made some of his coworkers mad at him for his attitude, all of which he apologized for. Hardly what you should get fired for. Reprimanded for, yes. Fired, no, unless he shows no effort to change.

This is why I've mostly stayed away from this topic for the last week or so. On top of having other things I'm either worried, or happy about, I don't wanna deal with this stuff, especially when it's disproportionate on the reactions. I offer a more nuanced & calm opinion. No one says a word. I say anything else, people jump down my throat as if I'm a demonspawn or something rather than having a genuine discussion, to say nothing of what I've seen of the other people who're in the same boat. Even now, I feel some people are gonna be mad at this post, even though I haven't changed my opinions on much from day 1 outside of finding out Vic tried to cheat on his fiance, which resulted in them breaking up last year.

[TKA]

Doesn't matter what tone you use, brah. If your stance is "Vic is innocent and there's no proof against him" it doesn't matter how you phrase it, it's still pretty despicable.

[SMKirbyZX]

Doesn't matter what tone you use, brah. If your stance is "Vic is innocent and there's no proof against him" it doesn't matter how you phrase it, it's still pretty despicable.

What's despicable here is that some people here are still misrepresenting and/or misunderstanding the IStandWithVic guys. This isn't exactly as black and white as you think here.

[Fionordequester]

Is there faked evidence or claims, making those who accused him look bad? Yes.

Again, WHICH claims were false? Besides the first SWATing incident (and possibly what Schemmel said about someone trying to SWAT him)...what was false? Everything else I can think of has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

That also says nothing of Monica Rial, who handled the situation extremely poorly by threatening to report people who didn't believe her because she didn't provide details on why she hated Vic at first, making her look bad as a result.

She was assaulted. Or at least, that's what she's saying.

Do you have even the slightest idea of how hurtful it is to have folks question you when something legitimately traumatizing has happened to you? Especially when you're STILL doubting yourself as to whether or not anything serious happened (as victims often do)?

We're not talking normal psych injuries here. We're talking deep, lizard brain, subconscious stuff. The sort of injuries you have trouble even acknowledging, or putting words to.

That's part of the reason Vic needs to go so badly, even on the off chance he legit didn't mean anything bad (which is already a stretch). Wounds like this cannot be tolerated; not even by accident.

Then Sean, who believed a report of swatting because he hated Vic. He later retracted what he said about it when it was reported to be faked, but then he also accuses people of swatting HIM, which was found by people int he video to have been a fake claim. Doesn't make him look good.

...

Yeah, Schemmel never impressed me much. Sad to say, considering he voices my childhood icon, but...oh well. "Separate the art from the artist" and all that.

Should Vic have lost his job at FUNi? No. He made people feel uncomfortable, a small minority of people out of thousands of people he's met after over a decade or 2 of going to conventions & made some of his coworkers mad at him for his attitude, all of which he apologized for. Hardly what you should get fired for. Reprimanded for, yes. Fired, no, unless he shows no effort to change.

If we're to believe Monica Rial, then he DIDN'T make any effort to change. Or at least, not a strong enough effort to stop himself from going back to his old ways every time.

Personally, I've seen no reason not to believe her. And no, out of context vids of her acting chummy with Vic doesn't count (again, you have no idea what you're talking about when you lecture folks on what assault victims should, or shouldn't, do).

This is why I've mostly stayed away from this topic for the last week or so. On top of having other things I'm either worried, or happy about, I don't wanna deal with this stuff...

Then shut up. Stop coming. If you can't be bothered to "deal with this stuff", then you've no business offering your opinion. Put the thread on "Ignore", and be on your way until you CAN be bothered to "deal with this stuff". "This stuff" is too important to treat any other way.

I offer a more nuanced & calm opinion.

That's your opinion. I don't think your opinion is calm or nuanced.

No one says a word. I say anything else, people jump down my throat as if I'm a demonspawn or something rather than having a genuine discussion, to say nothing of what I've seen of the other people who're in the same boat.

I'm sorry you felt bad. Your feelings are important...but you're words still reflect someone who doesn't know what they're talking about in regards to sexual assault.

So in-spite of the importance of your feelings, I'm still willing to risk hurting them, if there's any chance of you coming to understand what it's truly like being a victim of sexual assault.

Even now, I feel some people are gonna be mad at this post, even though I haven't changed my opinions on much from day 1 outside of finding out Vic tried to cheat on his fiance, which resulted in them breaking up last year.

And that's their right to do so.

I'm not mad, if it helps. Irritated that you're still arguing despite "not wanting to deal with this stuff" (which, to me, means you're not thinking about the issue as hard as hard as you should be), but...not mad.

[NinjaGoku]

My opinion of Vic and Funimation?

They're all real jerks!

[Scsigs]

Doesn't matter what tone you use, brah. If your stance is "Vic is innocent and there's no proof against him" it doesn't matter how you phrase it, it's still pretty despicable.

My point. You just proved it.

I didn't say there wasn't proof against him. My whole thought process on this topic has been the people coming out against him have their own thoughts on the matter. Again, the only proof being thrown around was either stuff that, at least part of it, was disproven to actually be evidence against him, or made me scratch my head & say, "why didn't you confront him in the moment? Why is this a problem NOW?" I've never discounted the people that had legit grievances with him. I had problems with the motives & timing. Other people, I can see why it took a long time for others to come out against them. This, I don't know, especially when some of the accusations, as some have pointed out, have been floating around for YEARS. That's my issue with it.
Vic's not Harvey Weinstein & he seems like a very approachable & understanding man. Just talking to someone can do wonders to change how they go about things, rather than letting it boil over into a problem for years. Most problems only exist because people let them & letting what is perceived as a problem with Vic go on without intervening as long as people apparently did is problematic & only letting the problem continue. I mean, just look at Vic's statements. He apologized & said he's gonna do better. Imagine if someone told him about these problems years ago. This whole mess could've been avoided.

Doesn't matter what tone you use, brah. If your stance is "Vic is innocent and there's no proof against him" it doesn't matter how you phrase it, it's still pretty despicable.

What's despicable here is that some people here are still misrepresenting and/or misunderstanding the IStandWithVic guys. This isn't exactly as black and white as you think here.

Thank you, my good man.

Again, WHICH claims were false? Besides the first SWATing incident (and possibly what Schemmel said about someone trying to SWAT him)...what was false? Everything else I can think of has been pretty thoroughly debunked.

It was laid out in that video, but on top of the swatting claims, it was mostly the evidence that was debunked, calling into question the legitimacy of some of the rest of the claims. Such as the people wanting to fake evidence, which was done or was at least talked about by people who hate Vic for whatever reason.

She was assaulted. Or at least, that's what she's saying.

Do you have even the slightest idea of how hurtful it is to have folks question you when something legitimately traumatizing has happened to you? Especially when you're STILL doubting yourself as to whether or not anything serious happened (as victims often do)?

We're not talking normal psych injuries here. We're talking deep, lizard brain, subconscious stuff. The sort of injuries you have trouble even acknowledging, or putting words to.

That's part of the reason Vic needs to go so badly, even on the off chance he legit didn't mean anything bad (which is already a stretch). Wounds like this cannot be tolerated; not even by accident.

Yes, I'm not unsympathetic to Monica's plight if what she's said happened happened, which I'm not discounting. I can remember a time when I was bullied relentlessly in middle school by a group of 4 other guys. None of the adults in my school saw or heard any of it & didn't do shit as a result to stop it. And what stuff they DID see, they didn't stop to question it & thought I was the perpetrator of what was going on because they saw it at the wrong moment. I was relieved when 2 of those people moved away after 8th grade & my high school life was better by default because of that. But that was me at middle school; a dumb kid who didn't know how to properly handle most situations I found myself in. I have problems persisting to this day in my mind because of those experiences because I hated them so much & wanted them to die to make it stop. When you get to the point where if you hate someone enough you want them to die or at least don't care if they live, THAT'S a problem & I have to deal with those demons every day.
THAT'S why I'm saying Monica didn't handle herself well & she, as a woman in her 40s, could've handled herself better. I'm pretty sure SHE even agrees if what was read of her statement in that video is stuff to go on. She gave no explanations of her beef with Vic, only the statement that he wronged her & just expected people to be on her side by default because of that. Then she threatened litigation & law enforcement on the people who brought up the problems with what she was doing. Can you not see the problem that presents? Now that she's released a full statement, we can actually absorb the info & make up our minds on the matter. She's entitled to seek justice, I'm just saying how she went about things didn't really endear many people to her.

Yeah, Schemmel never impressed me much. Sad to say, considering he voices my childhood icon, but...oh well. "Separate the art from the artist" and all that.

Same. I can enjoy his work as Goku, but he as a person is something still in question.

If we're to believe Monica Rial, then he DIDN'T make any effort to change. Or at least, not a strong enough effort to stop himself from going back to his old ways every time.

Personally, I've seen no reason not to believe her. And no, out of context vids of her acting chummy with Vic doesn't count (again, you have no idea what you're talking about when you lecture folks on what assault victims should, or shouldn't, do).

I'm not saying she didn't have reasons to do what she was doing, only that she could've handled herself better. You're also coming at this from a post-her statement time. Prior to that, when I saw her saying she screenshot tweets on Twitter in order to combat the people that were questioning her, it didn't make her look good.

Then shut up. Stop coming. If you can't be bothered to "deal with this stuff", then you've no business offering your opinion. Put the thread on "Ignore", and be on your way until you CAN be bothered to "deal with this stuff". "This stuff" is too important to treat any other way.

I plan to, but I also kept tabs on this thread to see if there were new developments, when I saw this wasn't going away, particularly when Vic was lawyering up. Can't blame me for wanting to do that. And, I DO plan on making this the last post for a while in this specific thread unless I can't ignore a response to me, so no worries there.

That's your opinion. I don't think your opinion is calm or nuanced.

That's what I tried to come across as in one of my earlier posts to this thread.

I'm sorry you felt bad. Your feelings are important...but your words still reflect someone who doesn't know what they're talking about in regards to sexual assault.

So in-spite of the importance of your feelings, I'm still willing to hurt them, if there's any chance of you coming to understand what it's truly like being a victim of sexual assault.

Again, I'm not discounting the claims of assault. If there ARE people who claim he did these things, I hope they got/get something out of this ordeal. And, as I explained, I understand what it's like to be the victim to people who're going to do the things they're going to do. My problem is mostly the conduct. I'm not willing to discount the evidence, but when SOME of it is suspect, that calls into question the rest, it's a domino effect. This is a serious case that requires delicate observation & thinking of this, yet the only person I've seen be this way is Vic himself. I'm not saying others weren't this way, but if you want to have people side with you, going to extreme tactics isn't the way to go. That only causes more problems.
And, my feelings aren't hurt by you. I'm only seeing you as someone who doesn't know me, just as I don't know you, who thinks I need education on a serious topic when I know all too well how serious this situation is & what should be required of every party involved.

And that's their right, to do so.

I'm not mad, if it helps. Irritated that you're still arguing despite "not wanting to deal with this stuff" (which, to me, means you're not thinking about the issue as hard as hard as you should be), but...not mad.

When I say, "not wanting to deal with this stuff," I mean the people who automatically think me a bad person for wanting there to be more of an investigation into the matters & being labelled something I'm not for there not being enough stuff to convince me without a doubt of something people are taking at face value right away without questioning when something seems suspect. The people who suggested the mods delete comments of the people who still question the legitimacy of the claims, or are wanting to see more, are particularly problematic to me, but I can understand where they're coming from.
However, frustration with new people is something I don't think makes doing that justified, especially with a thread that's 90 pages at this point, some of which is full of fluff. If you're going to delete comments that seem repetitive, then you might as well start a new thread collecting all available evidence in an easy-to-digest format that presents it all there for people to discuss. Deleting comments just leads to an echo chamber devoid of any other opinions than what everyone's decided are the right ones, which shouldn't be what forums like this are for. I've said this before, but I thought to reiterate.
The other side of this argument also has their problems with not at least taking a bit of stock in the amount of claims, so don't think I don't understand your side. I do & I hope I've made that clear already.

I hope this cleared things up. If there's anything else, let me know.

[Fionordequester]

Well, if this is gonna be your last post for a while, lemme ask...

It was laid out in that video, but on top of the swatting claims, it was mostly the evidence that was debunked, calling into question the legitimacy of some of the rest of the claims. *Such as the people wanting to fake evidence, which was done or was at least talked about by people who hate Vic for whatever reason.*

...

You did READ those tweets, right? If you did, you'd see that everyone their VIOLENTLY disagreed with Valerie Dave's suggestion. She put it out there, and they shot her down immediately...







This isn't a smoking gun. This is some troll stealing someone's DeviantArt username...

www.deviantart.com/laundrysoapman/journ ... -784600047

...and intentionally leaking the conversations to smear KickVic.

Seriously, when I say that almost every single accusation against KickVic has been thoroughly debunked, I'm not just saying that to hear myself talk. It's the whole point behind me constantly spamming my list of research in every page. So people DON'T make mistakes like THIS!!

[Fionordequester]

Now, for those wondering what else Scigg might be talking about, in regards to falsified evidence...I don't know what else he could be referring to, either.

I remember the video touching upon the Valerie Dave thing (which is debunked), and I remember the talk about the Richardson Police Dept. (again, jury's still out on whether or not someone truly did attempt to SWAT Schemmel)...but I don't recall anything else.

EDIT: Heck, someone may have even prank-called Schemmel, now that I think about it. Put the thought in his head, then make KickVic look worse by having him say something he thought was true, but wasn't?

I dunno. It's an alternative to "Schemmel is an overly sensitive hothead trying to save face", at any rate.

[Scsigs]

Well, if this is gonna be your last post for a while, lemme ask...

It was laid out in that video, but on top of the swatting claims, it was mostly the evidence that was debunked, calling into question the legitimacy of some of the rest of the claims. *Such as the people wanting to fake evidence, which was done or was at least talked about by people who hate Vic for whatever reason.*

...

You did READ those tweets, right? If you did, you'd see that everyone their VIOLENTLY disagreed with Valerie Dave's suggestion. She put it out there, and they shot her down immediately...







This isn't a smoking gun. This is some troll stealing someone's DeviantArt username...

www.deviantart.com/laundrysoapman/journ ... -784600047

...and intentionally leaking the conversations to smear KickVic.

Seriously, when I say that almost every single accusation against KickVic has been thoroughly debunked, I'm not just saying that to hear myself talk. It's the whole point behind me constantly spamming my list of research in every page. So people DON'T make mistakes like THIS!!

Yes, I know of that situation. I saw those, but if there was SOMEONE who wanted to fake evidence, then there's more elsewhere, which DID happen. Not saying all the evidence is fake, just a bit of it is.