Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

[GhostEmperorX]

I especially like what sounds like Gohan’s theme in those first few episodes.
The original score definitely isn’t something you can judge just by seeing a few clips of the show, and in the garbage audio too. It has to be seen in its proper form and with the proper context as well.

[Planetnamek]

Sure is! i'm bummed that I missed that site's heyday(and apparently the current owner of the domain is using robots.txt so you can't access it via Wayback machine ) so I decided to make that my username.

A few years ago, it became accessible again on the Wayback Machine. I even just checked now and it still seems to be working.

Wow that's awesome! Looks like i've got some browsing to do.

[McDonaldsGuy]

Sure is! i'm bummed that I missed that site's heyday(and apparently the current owner of the domain is using robots.txt so you can't access it via Wayback machine ) so I decided to make that my username.

A few years ago, it became accessible again on the Wayback Machine. I even just checked now and it still seems to be working.

Wow that's awesome! Looks like i've got some browsing to do.

Yeah I don't want to get too off-topic (plus, the main topic has been exhausted at this point IMO), but damn I am getting nostalgia overload. Remember Ultimate DBZ Info; Gingi Gingi Giril; Dragon-Ball-GT.com (I think called "Unrivaled"); DaizEx; Pojo's DBZ site; Temple of Trunks.; Dr. Gero's Lab; DBZ Uncensored 1 and 2; and soooo many more?

Watching DBZ be the number 1 search on Yahoo and Lycos for 3 straight years was awesome. I also loved how most webmasters were young like 14-16. The cheesy disclaimers.... "Affiliates..." etc. etc. It was fun.

As I said I won't get too off topic but I am thinking of making a nostalgia DBZ internet thread now.

[TVfan721]

This is my simple take. Most of the Faulconer music sounds great on it's own, away from DBZ, as standalone music. However, when it's placed in DBZ as an actual soundtrack to the series, it's fucking awful. I'll take this song for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flJbl2Ebzkc I really like it as a standalone piece, especially the vocal effects near the end, but for fuck sakes, when it's placed in that trainwreck Season 3 dub, it's ridiculously out of place and makes a shit dub even more shit.

And no, I'm not entirely sure why that is because I don't have that issue at all with the Westwood soundtrack.

[GhostEmperorX]

If the Faulconer team’s score (or any other replacement BGM for that matter) never even existed then I wonder what people who were fans of it would be saying about the original BGM. Because now that one is beginning to get more and more acceptable for me since Toei’s mistake has been corrected. Also wondering how it would be had Toei not so foolishly thrown away the original masters.
I guess it’s because at this stage of re-watching it (10th episode) the action hasn’t ramped up and it still feels like the original DB show, but it’s still quite a lot better with the true audio.

[Kendamu]

Absolutely not! "Modernizing" the show with replacement BGM takes out a huge part of the show's soul because that BGM feels like the BGM from the Kung Fu movies that inspired Toriyama.

Taking that BGM away from DBZ is like saying DBZ would be better without martial arts

[TheGreatness25]

Ironically enough, I think that the attempt to "modernize" DBZ by throwing the Faulconer score in, actually had the opposite effect. Because it was synth, it sounds so old at this point. Whereas the original score, conducted with actual instruments (or at least it sounds like it was), sounds timeless -- after all, those instruments have existed for centuries.

[XanatosVanBadass]

If the Faulconer team’s score (or any other replacement BGM for that matter) never even existed then I wonder what people who were fans of it would be saying about the original BGM. Because now that one is beginning to get more and more acceptable for me since Toei’s mistake has been corrected. Also wondering how it would be had Toei not so foolishly thrown away the original masters.
I guess it’s because at this stage of re-watching it (10th episode) the action hasn’t ramped up and it still feels like the original DB show, but it’s still quite a lot better with the true audio.

Just look at how literally the rest of the world got the show and you have your answer. They have no problem with it.

[GhostEmperorX]

Just look at how literally the rest of the world got the show and you have your answer. They have no problem with it.

That is true.

Ironically enough, I think that the attempt to "modernize" DBZ by throwing the Faulconer score in, actually had the opposite effect. Because it was synth, it sounds so old at this point. Whereas the original score, conducted with actual instruments (or at least it sounds like it was), sounds timeless -- after all, those instruments have existed for centuries.

Wouldn't exactly call that one quite "timeless" either as it just has the air of an older era to it, even with those proper instruments. Lots of scores don't even use that "rattle" sound (not sure what the particular instrument is) which can be distinctively heard in a lot of the original score anymore, among certain other elements.
The replacement score however is simply a product of a fading trend so you're right on that one.

[Planetnamek]

Ironically enough, I think that the attempt to "modernize" DBZ by throwing the Faulconer score in, actually had the opposite effect. Because it was synth, it sounds so old at this point. Whereas the original score, conducted with actual instruments (or at least it sounds like it was), sounds timeless -- after all, those instruments have existed for centuries.

Both sound kinda dated to me in their own way, but not in a bad way.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Just look at how literally the rest of the world got the show and you have your answer. They have no problem with it.

That is true.

Ironically enough, I think that the attempt to "modernize" DBZ by throwing the Faulconer score in, actually had the opposite effect. Because it was synth, it sounds so old at this point. Whereas the original score, conducted with actual instruments (or at least it sounds like it was), sounds timeless -- after all, those instruments have existed for centuries.

Wouldn't exactly call that one quite "timeless" either as it just has the air of an older era to it, even with those proper instruments. Lots of scores don't even use that "rattle" sound (not sure what the particular instrument is) which can be distinctively heard in a lot of the original score anymore, among certain other elements.
The replacement score however is simply a product of a fading trend so you're right on that one.

Indeed. The Kikuchi score was deliberately invoking an old school era and sound. A similar comparison could be made to Batman TAS, which absolutely took influence from the Max Fletcher Superman visually and musically.

[Majin Buu]

Ironically enough, I think that the attempt to "modernize" DBZ by throwing the Faulconer score in, actually had the opposite effect. Because it was synth, it sounds so old at this point. Whereas the original score, conducted with actual instruments (or at least it sounds like it was), sounds timeless -- after all, those instruments have existed for centuries.

Agreed.

Though just fyi, I believe the Kikuchi score does use a synthesizer in certain tracks too. The difference is that it's just one of several instruments the Kikuchi score uses, it's not providing most of the main sounds like in the Falconer score.

[GhostEmperorX]

Indeed. The Kikuchi score was deliberately invoking an old school era and sound. A similar comparison could be made to Batman TAS, which absolutely took influence from the Max Fletcher Superman visually and musically.

I used to think that a show like this could have had something better, but after viewing it with said audio and considering deeply just what kind of person Toriyama is, it really wouldn't work if it weren't that old despite the direction it seemed to be going in. So the original one is fine and serves its purpose well regardless of the caliber of the compositions.

Also, wouldn't that be "Fleischer"?

Though just fyi, I believe the Kikuchi score does use a synthesizer in certain tracks too. The difference is that it's just one of several instruments the Kikuchi score uses, it's not providing most of the main sounds like in the Falconer score.

So far for the orchestral hit effects that are heard in some of the battle themes. And subdued in quite a few other themes here and there, probably also to replicate organ sounds.

[Metalwario64]

Here's my take: there is nothing wrong with synth based music. Faulconer team's instruments were made primarily of a sample based synthesizer, and many of the samples sound like generic MIDI samples. The woodwind samples that the team used in particular was very cheap and cheesy sounding.

One of the distorted guitar samples used more in the earlier parts of the score sounds like a sample used in older Capcom CPS2 arcade games and some SNES games.

The FM synth sounding instruments have held up much better than many of the samples used. During the Buu arc, better instruments (some live guitars even?) were incorporated.

[GhostEmperorX]

Here's my take: there is nothing wrong with synth based music.

This really though it shouldn't exactly be a "base", more of an accenting element.

[DBZimran]

It's time to accept Kikuchi as your lord and saviour kid.

[GhostEmperorX]

It's time to accept Kikuchi as your lord and saviour kid.

Too late, OP’s already gone.

[Planetnamek]

It's time to accept Kikuchi as your lord and saviour kid.

Too late, OP’s already gone.

Yeah I noticed that, their profile says "not banned" though clicking on it does not turn up anything.

[GhostEmperorX]

Another thing on this BTW:

Put simply: you're doing the thing that most people on both this site, and in wider mainstream anime fandom of the last 15+ years have been doing, which is not understanding that edited for kids' TV anime dubs weren't the ONLY type of anime that was licensed and released in North America back in the 80s and 90s.

mainstream

And that's the problem right there, the proper route wasn't mainstream. In fact it was anything but.
However it was very much during the 90's that the mainstream was shifting away from adaptations. All the legit ones may as well have been underground in comparison.

[Thunderbird]

The original Kikuchi score was terrible, repetitive sounding, dreary, dull and made the show look like 20 years older than it is.

It's no surprise at all that the Faulconer score ended up drastically more popular.