Super or GT poll

[ekrolo2]

Toriyama bullshit his way through 90% of the DB with no plan.

There are 2 things worth taking into account. 1- Toriyama did plan things out, such as planning Namek while writing the 23rd Tenkaichi arc, or going into the Buu arc knowing it would be the final one. 2- Although he didn't plan out as much as other authors did, he stated multiple times that he made sure everything fit together in a way that made it seem like it was all planned, which he succeeded with. Toriyama is doing neither with Super, there's no planning nor does everything fit perfectly together like in the original manga.

As ABED said, paying attention to your own continuity isn't planning, it just means he bullshit his way through most material of DB with some care instead of being completely ambivalent. The exceptions where he DID plan things out are just that, exceptions, breaks from the norm.

[ABED]

I far prefer Super. It's just more interesting in part because the fights are way better. The possibilities that excite me aren't exploring galaxies or anything like that. It's character stuff like Goku and Pan's relationship, where Vegeta is heading, Goku and Beerus's rivalry/friendship. Will Vegeta get to the point where he'll explicitly say he's friends with Goku?

[Kid Trunks]

I used to loathe GT. But now I have a certain fondness for it. I prefer the animation style, it's ending is emotional and the series as a whole has the nostalgia factor for me now.

I see Super is winning the vote though. Clearly there is massive voter fraud at play here.

[Matches Malone]

I see Super is winning the vote though. Clearly there is massive voter fraud at play here.

That wouldn't be happening if Rudy Giuliani was a member here.

[Block88]

Both series are shit frankly
Super just has the benefits of being more entertaining that’s it

[ZeroNeonix]

that doesn’t mean planned. Clearly the Buu arc wasn’t. It just means paying attention to continuity.

Not that I disagree with you. Toriyama clearly made up a lot of stuff as he went. Some of that was the fault of his editors, though, such as when they told him #19 and #20 were boring, so he made #17 and #18. And then they said those two were "just kids," so he made Cell. And then he hurried to Perfect Cell because they wanted Toriyama to get on with it. But despite all that, Dragon Ball Z worked because each arc had a connection to the one before it. The story felt like it kept building on top of itself, with characters changing, and consequences for the story.

With Super, it often feels like each story could be its own self-contained thing. There's very little holding it together. The only exception I can think of is when we see the Omni-King destroy the whole Future timeline, and then followed that up with the ToP. Even though it turned out he was bluffing in that tournament anyway... Super to me just feels a lot more like authors throwing darts at a board to determine what they do that day.

[Matches Malone]

Toriyama clearly made up a lot of stuff as he went. Some of that was the fault of his editors, though, such as when they told him #19 and #20 were boring, so he made #17 and #18. And then they said those two were "just kids," so he made Cell. And then he hurried to Perfect Cell because they wanted Toriyama to get on with it. But despite all that, Dragon Ball Z worked because each arc had a connection to the one before it.

The difference is not only Toriyama's ability to make it all fit together, but also his ability to hide how often he was making it up as went along. When you watch/read the original story, it feels like any other story that was carefully planned from start to finish. You'd only know that wasn't the case if you actually read about it in interviews. With Super, you can clearly tell what's going on behind the scenes without anyone saying anything about it.

[SSJgogeto]

GT isn't that bad (it's still bad IMO), but I like Super way more.

[ABED]

Toriyama clearly made up a lot of stuff as he went. Some of that was the fault of his editors, though, such as when they told him #19 and #20 were boring, so he made #17 and #18. And then they said those two were "just kids," so he made Cell. And then he hurried to Perfect Cell because they wanted Toriyama to get on with it. But despite all that, Dragon Ball Z worked because each arc had a connection to the one before it.

The difference is not only Toriyama's ability to make it all fit together, but also his ability to hide how often he was making it up as went along. When you watch/read the original story, it feels like any other story that was carefully planned from start to finish. You'd only know that wasn't the case if you actually read about it in interviews. With Super, you can clearly tell what's going on behind the scenes without anyone saying anything about it.

I'm not sure why you feel like it was planned or why you imply that's a good thing. And if anything, Super feels more planned than the manga because it all has a through line - the gods. Hell, the Tournament of Power arc was announced two arcs prior to it occurring.

Being planned is not inherently a good thing. The point isn't to feel planned, the point is to execute well however that happens. A storyteller's method of getting there is irrelevant.

With Super, it often feels like each story could be its own self-contained thing. There's very little holding it together.

See answer above. There's nothing connecting the Piccolo arc with the Tenshinhan arc together besides sequentially, and the Buu arc has NOTHING to do with the Cell arc. Also, why does that matter if one series is held together or each arc is its own thing? It's a difference in structure. Toriyama did that a lot.

[ArmenianPepsi]

While to me, both have some major flaws. I would take Super any day of the week over GT. The only thing I really like about GT is the ending because truth be told I do not care for the ending Toriyama gave the original manga's story. But saying that GT's ending is good is like saying that the caboose at the end of the 64 car long train-wreck made it out alright. Yeah that's good, but that doesn't really take away from the tragedy that happened before it.

[Matches Malone]

I do not care for the ending Toriyama gave the original manga's story.

Saying that GT's ending is good is like saying that the caboose at the end of the 64 car long train-wreck made it out alright.

The biggest issue I have with the ending is that it just feels like the next chapter, nothing about it has the feeling of an ending to a decade long journey.

That's a great comparison.

[DestructoDisc]

Super is far better, like, this isn't even a contest for me. Even Super's manga is better. It's far more entertaining, with better and cooler fights. Only a handful of GT's fights were alright (Goku vs Ledgic, Gohan vs Vegeta) the rest were either forgettable or insultingly stupid (Goku vs Super 17). The characters are more likeable and better used in Super with Goku not always being the center of attention. GT does have its good moments though, and I love its japanese OST, but overall I prefer Super.

[SupremeKai25]

The various arcs of Super are WAY MORE inter-connected than anything in DBZ or GT:

- At the end of BoG, Goku and Vegeta leave for Beerus' planet to train in the ways of God ki;
- Sorbet and co. take advantage of their absence to raid the Earth, find the Dragon Balls, and revive Frieza. Frieza himself then invades the Earth while the Saiyans are training with Whis;
- Champa takes an interest in the Earth after Beerus informs him of the delicious food made there, and Beerus knows about Earth only because of BoG;
- Zamasu learns about the Super Dragon Balls from watching the Goku vs. Hit fight, and carries an additional grudge towards Goku due to seeing him use God ki in the tournament. This arc FURTHER connects with Z because Zamasu explains that one of the main reasons why he wants to destroy all mortals is to punish Trunks for travelling through time in the Androids arc of Z;
- To please Future Zeno, who went to the Present timeline after Zamasu wrecked everything in the Future, Zeno holds a preliminary tournament, where the rivalry between U7 and U11 (Goku vs. Toppo) is set up for the rest of the tournament. As well, Zeno decides to hold a multiversal tournament after watching the U6 vs. U7 tournament over control of Earth;
- Paragus, who had been living in exile with Broly, forms an alliance with Frieza, who had been resurrected at the end of the Tournament of Power, to take revenge on King Vegeta's descendants.

Literally, the only arc of Super that happened "out of nowhere" is the Moro arc. I'm also going to make a wild guess and say that:

- The arc after the Moro arc will be connected to a certain someone's death and the Grand Priest's summon;
- The arc taking place in Planet Sadala will be connected to the Vegeta-Cabba fight in the U6 tournament.

It is objectively false to claim that the writers of Super did not plan their story out, because you don't find a way to connect ALL the arcs of a show if you don't plan the overarching narrative. Especially since Super already has 7 story arcs, and is an ongoing story with the next arc already in planning phase. Meanwhile, most of the arcs of Z are not connected in any way, shape, or form. Frieza is defeated on Namek so now a bunch of androids attack the Earth...? Cell is finally gone but a creepy group from space wants to revive this Majin Buu creature? There is no connection, no link, nothing.

How anyone could say that the story of Super is not planned is just beyond me, I can't comprehend what kind of arguments you'd be able to come up with to defend that hill of yours.

[ABED]

I do not care for the ending Toriyama gave the original manga's story.

Saying that GT's ending is good is like saying that the caboose at the end of the 64 car long train-wreck made it out alright.

The biggest issue I have with the ending is that it just feels like the next chapter, nothing about it has the feeling of an ending to a decade long journey.

That's a great comparison.

Why does it feel like the next chapter? The loose ends of the plot are tied up. The character arcs are all complete, and Goku is off on the next stage of his life - mentorship. He's also really excited because he has another mountain to climb. There's thematic closure for Goku.