Is Bulma immoral

[MasenkoHA]

I’m dying

Bravo

[JulieYBM]

Wrap it up, folks. Topic's over.

[PurestEvil]

shk

This should be posted in Interesting or Funny Pictures thread

[jjgp1112]

Bravo!

[Cursed Lemon]

This thread went from Kanzenshuu's biggest mistakes to greatest hits real quick

[BWri]

Spoiler:

You're killing me here! STAHP! I had something else to say, but whatever, it doesn't even matter now

[Yuli Ban]

[BWri]

Okay, the laughing fit has passed. Thank you all, especially Jack Bz.

It matters because as martial artists, they would be placing their pride and commitment to the martial arts ahead of their own deaths. So they wouldn't necessarily hold a grudge, or at least not one that they couldn't look past at some point.

No, I'm not saying that warriors are killers. I'm saying that their being warriors outweighs things like killing and holding grudges. Especially when life or death battles occur so often.

It's not about excusing their actions so much as it is about understanding them.

I do think there's merit to this. Once Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu decided to step up and fight they became "combatants", kind of like how we think of soliders or police officers. As a society, we create a distinction between "innocents" or simply civilians and those who protect us. So when it's invader vs. protector, it's sort of fair game. If an invader kills a protector, it's less diabolical than if they killed a non-combatant. I'm too dumb to know why it's that way, but that's how things seem to be structured in my eyes.

And among the fighters I listed, several of them were interested in testing out their power in combat. That said, Vegeta and Nappa offered them little choice since either way the humans faced total annihilation.

[Koitsukai]

Fucking kami, what a great day this one turned out to be

[Kunzait_83]

Why does them being martial artists matter? They were not fighting for self-improvement or for pleasure, it was a fight THEIR AND THE PLANET'S SURVIVAL.

It matters because as martial artists, they would be placing their pride and commitment to the martial arts ahead of their own deaths. So they wouldn't necessarily hold a grudge, or at least not one that they couldn't look past at some point.

Bro, I literally wrote one of THE threads in this place on martial arts and the whole "warrior's mentality" and the significant role it plays throughout DB, and even **I'm** at a complete and utter loss for words at how ridiculous this "point" you're trying to make here is.

Martial artists in and throughout Wuxia fiction *hold fucking grudges*. Like a LOT. They're kinda known for that. Particularly as it relates to killing people that they're close to (up to and including themselves from beyond the grave if its that kind of Bangsian Wuxia story), and also for things WAY less severe than that too.

Martial artists in Wuxia may have their own particularly idiosyncratic and very specific code of antiquated, ancient chivalry, ethics, and honor and all that... but they're ultimately still just human fucking beings here, who get enraged at a lot of the same basic-ass shit that you or I might. Like someone slaughtering a bunch of friends and loved ones for no good reason whatsoever.

"Revenge for the murder of a friend/family member" is, oh, I would say a preeeeeeetty significant theme that runs throughout just about a *gargantuan* chunk of martial arts fiction historically. And is ultimately at the root of a significant amount of stories in and throughout DB (Daimao arc, Ma Junior arc, the Saiyan arc, Freeza arc, etc).

They're martial artists, not indecipherable, inscrutable, bloodless beings from another reality. Their code of ethics are rooted in ideals that are ultimately a bit antiquated, medieval, and sometimes well outside of modern Western norms... but they aren't completely beyond any and all rational comprehension entirely. Not in the *least* bit.

I really, REALLY hope that a lot of the shit I've written on here over the years hasn't somehow given people the idea that simply defaulting at all times to "because they're martial artists" is some sort of magical "get out of jail free" card for even the most absurd, ludicrously insane, illogical nonsense that people try to pass off around here as "a valid point". Because its not and it never was that at all.

Christ almighty, when did discussion on this place become so utterly asinine?

I've been asking myself that exact same question since... roughly 2006 maybe?

[MyVisionity]

Martial artists in and throughout Wuxia fiction *hold fucking grudges*. Like a LOT. They're kinda known for that. Particularly as it relates to killing people that they're close to (up to and including themselves from beyond the grave if its that kind of Bangsian Wuxia story), and also for things WAY less severe than that too.

Yeah, I can understand getting upset over loved ones' deaths, but over their *own* deaths? In life or death battles? When they enter into them voluntarily knowing the stakes ahead of time? I mean I get it, but that still feels a bit off to me. Especially for a series like DB, where the characters are so carefree and easygoing. Not to mention Shenlong bringing everyone back to life.

Certainly martial artists hold grudges, but would they really allow those grudges to stand in the way of their battles and commitments as martial artists?

Maybe it's just a romanticized view of martial arts that Dragon Ball operates within.

[Yuji]

Martial artists in and throughout Wuxia fiction *hold fucking grudges*. Like a LOT. They're kinda known for that. Particularly as it relates to killing people that they're close to (up to and including themselves from beyond the grave if its that kind of Bangsian Wuxia story), and also for things WAY less severe than that too.

Yeah, I can understand getting upset over loved ones' deaths, but over their *own* deaths? In life or death battles? When they enter into them voluntarily knowing the stakes ahead of time? I mean I get it, but that still feels a bit off to me. Especially for a series like DB, where the characters are so carefree and easygoing. Not to mention Shenlong bringing everyone back to life.

Certainly martial artists hold grudges, but would they really allow those grudges to stand in the way of their battles and commitments as martial artists?

Maybe it's just a romanticized view of martial arts that Dragon Ball operates within.

Tenshinhan, at least, does seem to hold a grudge all the way to the Cell arc. Even by Super, he is distrustful of Vegeta when Freeza comes back and offers him a job in his army.

[WittyUsername]

It’s ironic that this thread has people getting into discussions about the philosophy of martial artists in fiction, when the thread is supposed to be about the morality of Bulma, who is not a martial artist.

[Yuli Ban]

Martial artists in and throughout Wuxia fiction *hold fucking grudges*. Like a LOT. They're kinda known for that. Particularly as it relates to killing people that they're close to (up to and including themselves from beyond the grave if its that kind of Bangsian Wuxia story), and also for things WAY less severe than that too.

Yeah, I can understand getting upset over loved ones' deaths, but over their *own* deaths? In life or death battles? When they enter into them voluntarily knowing the stakes ahead of time? I mean I get it, but that still feels a bit off to me. Especially for a series like DB, where the characters are so carefree and easygoing. Not to mention Shenlong bringing everyone back to life.

Certainly martial artists hold grudges, but would they really allow those grudges to stand in the way of their battles and commitments as martial artists?

Maybe it's just a romanticized view of martial arts that Dragon Ball operates within.

Vegeta literally holds an impossibly hot grudge against a guy he never even formally lost to in battle just because that guy managed to punch him a few times using a strength multiplication technique.
Why wouldn't someone be even angrier over being killed? Even if not by Vegeta himself; the guy who killed them was still operating under Vegeta's orders!

[JulieYBM]

It’s ironic that this thread has people getting into discussions about the philosophy of martial artists in fiction, when the thread is supposed to be about the morality of Bulma, who is not a martial artist.

The real funny part is how a thread about criticizing the series' heroine figure inevitably wound up being about the men in her life, rather than her. Really goes to underscore an issue with Dragon Ball.

[MasenkoHA]

Morality in Dragon Ball seems to operate on “Is the person they killed still dead?”

[jjgp1112]

Martial artists in and throughout Wuxia fiction *hold fucking grudges*. Like a LOT. They're kinda known for that. Particularly as it relates to killing people that they're close to (up to and including themselves from beyond the grave if its that kind of Bangsian Wuxia story), and also for things WAY less severe than that too.

Yeah, I can understand getting upset over loved ones' deaths, but over their *own* deaths? In life or death battles? When they enter into them voluntarily knowing the stakes ahead of time? I mean I get it, but that still feels a bit off to me. Especially for a series like DB, where the characters are so carefree and easygoing. Not to mention Shenlong bringing everyone back to life.

Certainly martial artists hold grudges, but would they really allow those grudges to stand in the way of their battles and commitments as martial artists?

Maybe it's just a romanticized view of martial arts that Dragon Ball operates within.

Tenshinhan, at least, does seem to hold a grudge all the way to the Cell arc. Even by Super, he is distrustful of Vegeta when Freeza comes back and offers him a job in his army.

And don't forget, Piccolo and Tien refuse to wear the Saiyan armor when Bulma offers it to them on sheer principle. It seemed like Piccolo couldn't have cared less about Vegeta until he sacrificed himself and proved he wans't completely terrible.

[Aim]

Her attraction to an evil person like Vegeta is primal so I can't exactly blame her for that,

I can’t say I agree, I don’t see anything that is in our nature being attracted to evil people

My point was that you can't control attraction. It is hard wired into you through evolution. If anyone is to blame for Bulma being attracted to Vegeta it's her ancestors and genetics. She can control how she reacts to that attraction though.

As far as being attracted to evil, that's hard-wired into people too. What's evil to people is subjective, but in this case, Vegeta killing Namekians to get a Dragon Ball, it's unrepentant killing, which is a conqueror's trait. Conquerors are attractive because power is attractive. Evil is typically self-serving.

I…don’t think that’s how it works. Being attracted to people committing genocide isn’t something hardwired into people. Not to mention it’s a defective trait if anything that ultimately causes the downfall of millions including the conqueror.

Conquerors are not attractive, take Hitler and Gangis Khan, these people are hated around the world, people attracted to these types of people are usually the same lunatics that write letters to serial killers trying to convince themselves they were innocent or justified. The attraction to power is usually something inherent to people who feel they don’t have enough of it in their lives or feel entitled to it.

If anything I think Bulma thought Vegeta may have been a lost soul and she may have thought she could have tamed him. There’s nothing genetically that makes conquerors attractive, that’s not how society has worked after all, working together collectively until it all changed one day which threw the world into a downwards spiral we are seeing right now in the late stage.

[Aim]

kinda like how people get upset at the worlds top money earners because they're not just letting the rest of the world leech off their pockets, even if they donate to different charities, they're not obligated to help in other global issues, especially ones in different countries because there's usually politics involved and that's how wars start.

Its not as simple as just giving every homeless person you walk by a million dollars just because you "got it like that" spreading true wealth is taught not just given away. If a wealthy parent passes on their assets to their children whom have no level of discipline then that wealth will be pissed away pretty easily, its why lottery winners never stay rich for long.

First of all the top earners have not earned that money, the don’t produce or work over 300 times harder than workers, that money is essentially reaped from the labor of the workers who run the businesses. It’s the top earners who leach off the working class.

Donating does close to nothing to solve the problem at its core, it’s putting a bandaid over the issue. The problem isn’t that the rich don’t spread their wealth, it’s that they are able to earn that much through doing close to nothing compared to the workers. Again, they don’t work or produce over 300 times more than the people actually running the company.

At this point it’s one of those rare times we could probably say Toriyama hasn’t thought that deep about it. Either that or there’s something going on that we aren’t seeing like capsule Corp actually paying their workers properly and contributing to all of society except for the villages who may be choosing to live away from the modern world.

[BWri]

Conquerors are not attractive, take Hitler and Gangis Khan, these people are hated around the world, people attracted to these types of people are usually the same lunatics that write letters to serial killers trying to convince themselves they were innocent or justified. The attraction to power is usually something inherent to people who feel they don’t have enough of it in their lives or feel entitled to it.

"Genghis Khan a Prolific Lover, DNA Data Implies ... An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today."

"Khan's empire at the time of his death extended across Asia, from the Pacific Ocean to the Caspian Sea. His military conquests were frequently characterized by the wholesale slaughter of the vanquished. "

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/cult ... s-khan-dna

Too tired to reply to the rest now. I'll go over it tomorrow.