Is Bulma immoral

[Aim]

As for Vegeta, who hasn't forgiven a genocide or two to get some of that baby batter in their oven?

Julie plz no

[Aim]

Conquerors are not attractive, take Hitler and Gangis Khan, these people are hated around the world, people attracted to these types of people are usually the same lunatics that write letters to serial killers trying to convince themselves they were innocent or justified. The attraction to power is usually something inherent to people who feel they don’t have enough of it in their lives or feel entitled to it.

"Genghis Khan a Prolific Lover, DNA Data Implies ... An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today."

"Khan's empire at the time of his death extended across Asia, from the Pacific Ocean to the Caspian Sea. His military conquests were frequently characterized by the wholesale slaughter of the vanquished. "

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/cult ... s-khan-dna

Too tired to reply to the rest now. I'll go over it tomorrow.

This is because he raped tons of people my guy. What the actual fuck, are you going to defend rape? What’s up with the Dragon Ball community and these ultra fucked views on woman enjoying men who literally do awful things when this clearly isn’t the case in reality? This kind of characterisation is what leads to women getting hurt irl.

Also I’d like to address that this guy got exactly what he wanted because he was a ruler, lots of women were forced to be with him and his higher ups. You’ll notice that there’s a reason people are not on the streets praising Hitler and Khan for their actions and calling them attractive, this sounds like some biological essentialism honestly and it’s extremely insulting to insinuate that women enjoy toxic behavior. You’ll notice men who are abusive and controlling like these conquerors also attract women who have histories of being abused, because it just so happens if your told constantly that the boy who bullies you in the park likes you, you begin to think that’s normal and what’s expected in a relationship.

[JulieYBM]

As for Vegeta, who hasn't forgiven a genocide or two to get some of that baby batter in their oven?

Julie plz no

Hey don't worry, it's just a fantasy thing. I prefer nice, thoughtful boys.

[jjgp1112]

kinda like how people get upset at the worlds top money earners because they're not just letting the rest of the world leech off their pockets, even if they donate to different charities, they're not obligated to help in other global issues, especially ones in different countries because there's usually politics involved and that's how wars start.

Its not as simple as just giving every homeless person you walk by a million dollars just because you "got it like that" spreading true wealth is taught not just given away. If a wealthy parent passes on their assets to their children whom have no level of discipline then that wealth will be pissed away pretty easily, its why lottery winners never stay rich for long.

First of all the top earners have not earned that money, the don’t produce or work over 300 times harder than workers, that money is essentially reaped from the labor of the workers who run the businesses. It’s the top earners who leach off the working class.

Donating does close to nothing to solve the problem at its core, it’s putting a bandaid over the issue. The problem isn’t that the rich don’t spread their wealth, it’s that they are able to earn that much through doing close to nothing compared to the workers. Again, they don’t work or produce over 300 times more than the people actually running the company.

At this point it’s one of those rare times we could probably say Toriyama hasn’t thought that deep about it. Either that or there’s something going on that we aren’t seeing like capsule Corp actually paying their workers properly and contributing to all of society except for the villages who may be choosing to live away from the modern world.

I'd wageer ten trillion Zeni that Toriyama put less than zero thought into that, which is probably why this thread has spun off into the nonsense that it has. Because there's not much too discuss other than that DB just doesn't even attempt to put a lens onto that shit. We can have discussions about the evils of capitalism for a series that doesn't run on gags logic and Kung-Fu solving everything.

[Krillin1994]

Bulma is in a conservatorship. That's why she wanted to use the dragonballs to wish for a boyfriend originally since her father wouldn't allow it otherwise.

He is in charge of all her financial assets and wouldn't allow her to give money away.

#freebulma

[Aim]

As for Vegeta, who hasn't forgiven a genocide or two to get some of that baby batter in their oven?

Julie plz no

Hey don't worry, it's just a fantasy thing. I prefer nice, thoughtful boys.

No it’s not that, it’s just kinda gross when we are talking about a point in Vegeta’s life where he literally killed children. Now the subject on real life events have been brought up, anymore of that even if it’s joking could get insensitive.

[Yuli Ban]

It's time to arrest this thread

[Kamiccolo9]

Golden. Thanks for this.

[BWri]

Conquerors are not attractive, take Hitler and Gangis Khan, these people are hated around the world, people attracted to these types of people are usually the same lunatics that write letters to serial killers trying to convince themselves they were innocent or justified. The attraction to power is usually something inherent to people who feel they don’t have enough of it in their lives or feel entitled to it.

"Genghis Khan a Prolific Lover, DNA Data Implies ... An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today."

"Khan's empire at the time of his death extended across Asia, from the Pacific Ocean to the Caspian Sea. His military conquests were frequently characterized by the wholesale slaughter of the vanquished. "

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/cult ... s-khan-dna

Too tired to reply to the rest now. I'll go over it tomorrow.

This is because he raped tons of people my guy. What the actual fuck, are you going to defend rape? What’s up with the Dragon Ball community and these ultra fucked views on woman enjoying men who literally do awful things when this clearly isn’t the case in reality? This kind of characterisation is what leads to women getting hurt irl.

Also I’d like to address that this guy got exactly what he wanted because he was a ruler, lots of women were forced to be with him and his higher ups. You’ll notice that there’s a reason people are not on the streets praising Hitler and Khan for their actions and calling them attractive, this sounds like some biological essentialism honestly and it’s extremely insulting to insinuate that women enjoy toxic behavior. You’ll notice men who are abusive and controlling like these conquerors also attract women who have histories of being abused, because it just so happens if your told constantly that the boy who bullies you in the park likes you, you begin to think that’s normal and what’s expected in a relationship.

Way to be hyberbolic. It doesn't look like you're mature enough to handle the intricacies of a discussion about sexual selection, especially if your first instinct is to label me a rape defender so I'll just leave it there.

[TheGreatness25]

WTF us going on...?

Yesterday, we left it at funny manga rewrites and today it's this? Not to police the boards, but is it possible to have meaningful discussions without labeling the other members? People have different viewpoints and it's a lot more beneficial to discuss them than to make it all personal and distract from the conversation at hand. Come on; I'm pretty sure that nobody here supports rape, genocide, and other terrible things of that nature; there's no need to try to skew people's viewpoints into suggesting otherwise.

[Metalwario64]

WTF us going on...?

Yesterday, we left it at funny manga rewrites and today it's this? Not to police the boards, but is it possible to have meaningful discussions without labeling the other members? People have different viewpoints and it's a lot more beneficial to discuss them than to make it all personal and distract from the conversation at hand. Come on; I'm pretty sure that nobody here supports rape, genocide, and other terrible things of that nature; there's no need to try to skew people's viewpoints into suggesting otherwise.

I love this place, but there's a reason I rarely post much here anymore. Things like those manga edits make it all worthwhile though.

It's like all worthwhile discussions pertaining to pre-Super Dragon Ball have happened and there's nothing left so every thread goes crazy.

[jjgp1112]

WTF us going on...?

Yesterday, we left it at funny manga rewrites and today it's this? Not to police the boards, but is it possible to have meaningful discussions without labeling the other members? People have different viewpoints and it's a lot more beneficial to discuss them than to make it all personal and distract from the conversation at hand. Come on; I'm pretty sure that nobody here supports rape, genocide, and other terrible things of that nature; there's no need to try to skew people's viewpoints into suggesting otherwise.

I love this place, but there's a reason I rarely post much here anymore. Things like those manga edits make it all worthwhile though.

It's like all worthwhile discussions pertaining to pre-Super Dragon Ball have happened and there's nothing left so every thread goes crazy.

Yeah, pretty much. It's also a symptom of a lot of us realistically being too old to discuss such a simplistic children's cartoon at length anymore.

Dragon Ball doesn't do subtext. Unless Bulma is explicitly written as a greedy mega capitalist who underpays workers and hordes wealth, the series never expects you to think about it.

[Aim]

"Genghis Khan a Prolific Lover, DNA Data Implies ... An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today."

"Khan's empire at the time of his death extended across Asia, from the Pacific Ocean to the Caspian Sea. His military conquests were frequently characterized by the wholesale slaughter of the vanquished. "

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/cult ... s-khan-dna

Too tired to reply to the rest now. I'll go over it tomorrow.

This is because he raped tons of people my guy. What the actual fuck, are you going to defend rape? What’s up with the Dragon Ball community and these ultra fucked views on woman enjoying men who literally do awful things when this clearly isn’t the case in reality? This kind of characterisation is what leads to women getting hurt irl.

Also I’d like to address that this guy got exactly what he wanted because he was a ruler, lots of women were forced to be with him and his higher ups. You’ll notice that there’s a reason people are not on the streets praising Hitler and Khan for their actions and calling them attractive, this sounds like some biological essentialism honestly and it’s extremely insulting to insinuate that women enjoy toxic behavior. You’ll notice men who are abusive and controlling like these conquerors also attract women who have histories of being abused, because it just so happens if your told constantly that the boy who bullies you in the park likes you, you begin to think that’s normal and what’s expected in a relationship.

Way to be hyberbolic. It doesn't look like you're mature enough to handle the intricacies of a discussion about sexual selection, especially if your first instinct is to label me a rape defender so I'll just leave it there.

Sexual selection? You sound like you’ve spent too much time in the redpill community. I understand it’s hard for lots of men to get women, but trying to tie the rape of hundreds if not thousands of women to “sexual selection” as if these women had a choice is not only insensitive but it makes you sound like a sociopath. Who exactly hurt you? If you had any case here you’d be willing to argue your point, in which I think you just got cold feet because this is the first time someone has pointed out flaws in your argument? There’s nothing hyperbolic about what I said, Ganghis raped those women, he wasn’t a lover. I know people like you enjoy thinking he didn’t because you have this idea that women enjoy “alpha males” (which don’t exist by the way in our society and the concept is used wrong by the redpill community) who step on all men and act dominant and conquer life (maybe you had a bad experience? Too many movies), but anyone who is educated can see through the bullshit you would have posted otherwise.

[jjgp1112]

This is because he raped tons of people my guy. What the actual fuck, are you going to defend rape? What’s up with the Dragon Ball community and these ultra fucked views on woman enjoying men who literally do awful things when this clearly isn’t the case in reality? This kind of characterisation is what leads to women getting hurt irl.

Also I’d like to address that this guy got exactly what he wanted because he was a ruler, lots of women were forced to be with him and his higher ups. You’ll notice that there’s a reason people are not on the streets praising Hitler and Khan for their actions and calling them attractive, this sounds like some biological essentialism honestly and it’s extremely insulting to insinuate that women enjoy toxic behavior. You’ll notice men who are abusive and controlling like these conquerors also attract women who have histories of being abused, because it just so happens if your told constantly that the boy who bullies you in the park likes you, you begin to think that’s normal and what’s expected in a relationship.

Way to be hyberbolic. It doesn't look like you're mature enough to handle the intricacies of a discussion about sexual selection, especially if your first instinct is to label me a rape defender so I'll just leave it there.

Lol, sexual selection? You sound like you’ve spent too much time in the redpill community. I understand it’s hard for lots of men to get women, but trying to tie the rape of hundreds if not thousands of women to “sexual selection” as if these women had a choice is not only insensitive but it makes you sound like a sociopath. Who exactly hurt you? If you had any case here you’d be willing to argue your point, in which I think you just got cold feet because this is the first time someone has pointed out flaws in your argument? There’s nothing hyperbolic about what I said, Ganghis raped those women, he wasn’t a lover. I know people like you enjoy thinking he didn’t because you have this idea that women enjoy “alpha males” (which don’t exist by the way in our society and the concept is used wrong by the redpill community) who step on all men and act dominant and conquer life (maybe you had a bad experience? Too many movies), but anyone who is educated can see through the bullshit you would have posted if you had not gotten cold feet and ran away.

Dawg, you need to take a step back.

[Aim]

WTF us going on...?

Yesterday, we left it at funny manga rewrites and today it's this? Not to police the boards, but is it possible to have meaningful discussions without labeling the other members? People have different viewpoints and it's a lot more beneficial to discuss them than to make it all personal and distract from the conversation at hand. Come on; I'm pretty sure that nobody here supports rape, genocide, and other terrible things of that nature; there's no need to try to skew people's viewpoints into suggesting otherwise.

Hold on a second, did you not read what he wrote and linked? Ganghis Khan after conquering other tribes would forcefully choose women to go along with him, this guy is using that as a basis to push a narrative that it’s in women’s genes to choose toxic men, you know what this leads to? Abuse, rape, death. Not for men, for women. I called it out as I saw it. I’m extremely disappointed that others on this board would jump to defend this guy. Maybe I could’ve worded it better, however my point still stands, and his most recent comment as of now shows he was going to make an argument that women are attracted to men who show these traits, who may I remind you are extremely toxic and abusive.

[Aim]

Way to be hyberbolic. It doesn't look like you're mature enough to handle the intricacies of a discussion about sexual selection, especially if your first instinct is to label me a rape defender so I'll just leave it there.

Lol, sexual selection? You sound like you’ve spent too much time in the redpill community. I understand it’s hard for lots of men to get women, but trying to tie the rape of hundreds if not thousands of women to “sexual selection” as if these women had a choice is not only insensitive but it makes you sound like a sociopath. Who exactly hurt you? If you had any case here you’d be willing to argue your point, in which I think you just got cold feet because this is the first time someone has pointed out flaws in your argument? There’s nothing hyperbolic about what I said, Ganghis raped those women, he wasn’t a lover. I know people like you enjoy thinking he didn’t because you have this idea that women enjoy “alpha males” (which don’t exist by the way in our society and the concept is used wrong by the redpill community) who step on all men and act dominant and conquer life (maybe you had a bad experience? Too many movies), but anyone who is educated can see through the bullshit you would have posted if you had not gotten cold feet and ran away.

Dawg, you need to take a step back.

Can I get some explanation to why I’m the one who should step back? Can no one else see what this person is alluding to here?

[JulieYBM]

I'm just here for moral support but, like, dang. 'Sexual selection' just sounds rapey on its own without even Googling the meaning.

Anyway, men (especially cishet men) seeking women as partners need to do better at listening to women and considering womens' feelings. Far too often women are expected to manage men due to the erratic emotional control that toxic masculinity nurtures in men.

I could go o. And on any whatever but I'm going to use the convenience of this line of discussion being off-topic to just end my post here so that I can go do something, like, fun.

[Dr. Casey]

I think it's entirely possible that being a conqueror was seen as attractive in medieval times by many people. It was a colder and crueler world. ("lol people fighting to the death in colosseums is fun") In ancient and medieval times, it was common for people to love their king or sultan or pharaoh or whatever no matter how ruthlessly they treated other nations, so long as they themselves benefitted from it and were treated well. And it stands to reason that if someone is deeply appreciated in general, that applies to both platonic and non-platonic forms.

Obviously Khan raped a lot of people and his lineage has more to do with being a serial rapist than just being that sexy, and people are never a monolith no matter the era or region, but I don't think it's terrible to suggest that 800 years ago conquerors in general would have been seen in a much better overall light by their own people. Overcoming our tribalistic nature and extending empathy to more people has always been something we've slowly chiseled out by decades and centuries (and obviously something we're far from the end on). 800 years ago we were earlier in that process.

[Aim]

I think it's entirely possible that being a conqueror was seen as attractive in medieval times by many people. It was a colder and crueler world. ("lol people fighting to the death in colosseums is fun") In ancient and medieval times, it was common for people to love their king or sultan or pharaoh or whatever no matter how ruthlessly they treated other nations, so long as they themselves benefitted from it and were treated well. And it stands to reason that if someone is deeply appreciated in general, that applies to both platonic and non-platonic forms.

Obviously Khan raped a lot of people and his lineage has more to do with being a serial rapist than just being that sexy, and people are never a monolith no matter the era or region, but I don't think it's terrible to suggest that 800 years ago conquerors in general would have been seen in a much better overall light by their own people. Overcoming our tribalistic nature and extending empathy to more people has always been something we've slowly chiseled out by decades and centuries (and obviously something we're far from the end on). 800 years ago we were earlier in that process.

That is quite possible, my problem initially was the line being drawn that this is something inherent to us, which a lot of people tend to use as reasons to why “she wanted it/ had it coming” and “women choose abusers it’s in their genetics” etc. I also don’t think people witnessed what Khan did, a lot of people who look up to him will go out their way to deny or downplay what he and his soldiers did.

“ Temujin was a Mongol warrior lord who harbored an ambitious hegemonic agenda. He conquered large areas of Asia during his reign as khan. Under his leadership, the Mongol army became a powerful fighting machine, cutting through huge swaths of territory and terrorizing the inhabitants of those lands.
Temujin's army was successful because it excelled in reconnaissance and psychological warfare. Temujin was merciless in the aftermath of any conflict; enemy men were summarily executed, while the women and children became the spoils of war. Temujin took any woman who caught his fancy, and his commanders certainly knew enough to leave the most beautiful women to him.”

“ Historians assert that Temujin reveled in marrying or taking for concubines the wives and daughters of his enemies. Although there is no evidence to suggest that any of the women consented to their fate eagerly, it is safe to conclude that Temujin left these women little choice. It is highly likely that any woman who dared to rebel would have been summarily killed or given over to Temujin's soldiers for sexual sport.”

https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/ho ... ape-517428

Again, sure, there’s probably some people who see this as attractive, but to suggest it’s primal is a slap in the face to every victim out there. This is one of the few times I think it’s just Toriyama didn’t think that deep about it.

[Jack Bz]

No doubt it's wrong to say that Genghis Khan is any sort of evidence that women in general are attracted to genocidal people, or that any kind of attraction like that has a biological basis. If there was any genuine attraction to a conquerer, it would be because of how society would frame them and elevate them to celebrity status because they were ruler. Entirely cultural. I think if any woman is attracted to a horrible guy, it's almost never that the horrible stuff is the thing that's the turn on.

Genghis Khan was probably history's most prolific rapist, but this fact often has the reality of what that means de-emphasised because he is a historical figure from such a different time and society. Even the article BWri linked to frames it as Genghis Khan being a "lover", and the spread of his DNA is seen as a piece of trivia. I think it's wrong to say he is "hated around the world"; I'd say he's almost viewed with the lens of a myth or fictional character when he's brought up colloquially. They even named a Pokémon after him! Nintendo of all companies thinks it's just fine to invoke his name! He's a relic of another world.

So, I think it's appropriate to correct and say that Genghis Khan was actually a rapist, and thus his lineage is no example of women being attracted to evil people, buuuut... saying BWri was "defending rape" and "people like you enjoy thinking he didn't [rape]" etc, I think it's just taking the worst possible intention of that post. Like, I just saw it as very misguided, sure...but it's not like they were using Ted Bundy as the example. I think it was literally just "so many women bore his children even though he was a conquerer!" with no other ill intention, though yeah, it's a bad look to argue that women seek out bad people biologically for sure.

Also I am glad everyone liked the manga edit