BWri wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:02 am
No, I did not get cold feet,
Aim. I saw that you were going off the rails interpreting things that I did not say or imply. Judging from the, frankly, unhinged posts after, I was correct to leave it where I left it. Having a discussion with you would not prove fruitful if your opening rebuttal was to immediately infer what you inferred about me but you pulled my card, so to speak with that "cold feet" comment so I'll at least supply some of what I was going to post before.
Most people looking at the way you responded would have thought you were a bit of a creep.
My response was to "Conquerors are not attractive, take Hitler and Gangis Khan" which is why we're even talking about Genghis Khan. I mean, you're just factually wrong. To assume no sane person would find a conqueror attractive is a strange view. I'm not sure why you'd take an absolutist stance on something like that. Especially when these men (and women) are known historically to be sought after, revered, etc. etc. They have a lot to offer, after all, if only from a pure survival standpoint. Power, influence, and riches to name a few. That stuff was much more important then than it is now. Look at Alexander the Great. Once he died, his wives plotted to murder each other and their competing heirs just to maintain power and influence. Alexander had captured Roxane as a spoil of war before marrying her but she learned to leverage her power through her heir, power provided by her connection to said conqueror. With this power and influence, Roxane had his second wife Stateira killed. All this to survive and live in security, basically. Otherwise she and her heir would be killed, which eventually happened. None of this would have happened or have been necessary if no conquering took place, but that was not the reality that they lived in.
You've got the concept of having power and being the conqueror mixed up with the someone else being all those things. It's
factually wrong to say what you said, which was Hitler and those other conquerors were attractive, when in actuality it was not them, but the fact you could get power and the ability to conquer by getting close to them, there's a big difference.
What you have used as an example is completely different to trying to suggest first initially that those women that Khan raped had a choice. It's far different when you're brought up in a culture that admires barbaric practice that you'll find that attractive. That doesn't make it primal, it's feelings you develop from being in that kind of society.
Yes, Genghis Khan was a r******, but he was the "universal ruler" of a kingdom of evil conquering bastards--men with his same disposition and worldview. If the nation's men were all conquering bastards and that's what was held in high regard/status in their nomadic culture then it stands to reason that the conquering bastard with more power, riches, influence, ambition, and battle acumen than the rest, would be the most sought after. You can't graft our morals and ethics unto an ancient civilization. And if you know anything about mongol culture (or culture in general) you'd know that the women were integral to their success. With the Mongols it was moreso than any other culture since the women were never far from the battlefield and had vital tasks to help keep the war-machine turning. They were as invested in their culture and victory as the men were. They weren't hostages. Realistically, they would not have seen Genghis Khan as a monster. Part of his renown is he rescued his 1st wife after she was abducted by a rival tribe. She even eventually became Grand Preistess because his success = her success which is definitely attractive. Basically all of his wives were given some fancy title along with land and power. One of his wives even recommended that he find and marry her sister as well, which he did by capturing her as her husband fled.
Again, this ties in to what I said above. Big difference, you should have used that as an example instead of the one you used. Let's not forget we don't even get to hear the women's point of views that he forcefully took, which was probably most of them.
All that said, of course, he was a r****** who terrified, used and brutalized the women of his fallen enemies. He viewed them as spoils. He was a bastard that spread misery and destruction wherever he went. Most of his offspring is likely the product of heinous actions he took against women. No one is pedestalizing the guy. I shouldn't even have to say that. I certainly never implied that I did. I'm just acknowledging that when it comes to attraction, "It's complicated."
Good! But that's not how you came off, which is why I reacted the way I did.
Sexual selection is a Darwinian term, not a redpill term. You know, Charles Darwin as in the guy we all associate with evolution. "The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex is a book by English naturalist Charles Darwin, first published in 1871, which applies evolutionary theory to human evolution, and details his theory of sexual selection, a form of biological adaptation distinct from, yet interconnected with, natural selection."
The redpill community is known for using these terms such as "sexual selection" and adopting other scientific words to try push their agenda. This comes off as bad faith but I'll be
charitable and assume you thought I didn't know this already.
To be fair, this aspect of his research isn't as well known or agreed upon as his natural selection theory, but that's what discussion and debate is for ... as long as it's not judgey and vitriolic Aim.
Don't start appealing to civility, you came off looking very bad and I jumped the gun, should I have thought through my response? Probably. Could you next time not leave off on a vague note that makes you look creepy? Probably.
At the end of it all, none of this had anything to do with natural selection, but the culture these people were brought up in, and the rape of hundreds of women who will never have their voices heard.
She/Her 
. I forgot how she kinda foisted herself onto the Red Ribbon hunt and Goku telling her how useless she actually was in painfully blunt terms. For a long time she was straight Dee Reynolds status.
