"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Necrosaber]

There. Fixed. Much better:

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Eh, as I said, while I don't love the look, at least it doesn't feel like another pallete swap. He just looks like UI Sign to me here.

I think it'll grow on me (and others) when we see it in action.

[Magnificent Ponta]

A lot of people have questioned whether the hair will be purple, but I wonder what colour the irises will be. Maybe Golden?

[JulieYBM]

I do wish these were less lines. The form would look better with flatter shading.

[God Movement]

Another picture I can share from chapter 74, it's the last panel of the chapter

Spoiler:

Never doubted you. Thanks Redon.

[Grimlock]

Eh, as I said, while I don't love the look, at least it doesn't feel like another pallete swap.

Even if it turns out this form is not another recolor, the other problem with this is that it's yet another transformation for Saiyans. Do they really need that many transformations? Why is it so hard to give Kaio-Ken to the humans and a transformation for Piccolo?

[LoganForkHands73]

Well, that cat's out of the bag, couldn't resist a peak... I would say it's certainly not the prettiest transformation, but it definitely gives me "oh shit" vibes, like how Granola seems to be reacting. This is roughly how I imagined a Hakaishin form would look like on Vegeta (though a part of me was hoping that he wouldn't have a typical transformation at all, rather that he'd use Hakai power to complement his other forms as Goku does with Ultra Instinct). More defined hair, irises and a new aura, nothing too drastic... though the lack of eyebrows, I have to agree with the consensus that it's a questionable design decision. Never been a fan of the eyebrow-less look of Super Saiyan 3. Super Saiyan 3 at least had a long mane of hair to distract from that detail, but there's nothing to draw your attention away from it here. Not to be morbid, but it reminds me a little of the hairless cancer-patient Vegeta memes. Losing the eyebrows just doesn't look right and I'm not sure how it thematically ties in with the Hakaishin. With Ultra Instinct, the hair turning silver immediately draws parallels to Whis. I guess Sidra can't be a real Destroyer because he still has eyebrows? Come to think of it, I think he lacks earrings as well... false god confirmed? Some of these lore additions do feel poorly thought out.

While everyone moans about too many transformations, Super Saiyan Blue has been Vegeta's peak for several arcs now, so maybe it's time for a change. It's nice that he has something to counter Ultra Instinct that isn't blue. Since this is a leak though, is there any doubt that it's real or fake at this point?

[ZodiacBeast]

There. Fixed. Much better:

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*High-five*

Without eyebrows, it's distracting. With eyebrows it's...ok.

[DiscountDabi]

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Now it just looks like Omen.

I'd much rather take the lack of eyebrows over trying to give Vegeta a new form and it just looks like a form Goku has already.

Spoiler:

I love how his hair sticks out backwards a bit kinda like SSj 4

[Necrosaber]

Eh, as I said, while I don't love the look, at least it doesn't feel like another pallete swap.

Even if it turns out this form is not another recolor, the other problem with this is that it's yet another transformation for Saiyans. Do they really need that many transformations? Why is it so hard to give Kaio-Ken to the humans and a transformation for Piccolo?

I mean, I won't disagree with you, because I too wish humans and Piccolo got more chances to shine. But nothing about this manga or arc gives me the impression that the other characters will get anything like that so I can't get too worked up about it. Vegeta finding his own path has been hyped up for the last two arcs now and this is the payoff.

[Alruneia]

There. Fixed. Much better:

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Now it's just UI Sign (with grey highlights in the hair rather than white). Which is a much better look, you're not wrong there, but it can't really be recycled like that.
It's not possible to create many more recolour transformations (I think I've got the remaining options written down in another post), so Toyotaro, or whoever designed this form, knew that he had to change something else up, and he went for the eyebrows. I disagree with the decision, but I understand that he had to make one.

[Yuji]

I'm guessing I'm the only one if this is an intentional design approximation to Toppo's anime form in order to draw a line of continuity between the two versions of Super for/if the anime returns to adapt the manga.

[Magnificent Ponta]

(though a part of me was hoping that he wouldn't have a typical transformation at all, rather that he'd use Hakai power to complement his other forms as Goku does with Ultra Instinct)

It's possible he still might, in the fullness of time.

Insofar as Goku is looking to integrate his Divine Technique with his ordinary states without being reliant on a particular transformation to use it (in the way that the Angels do), whereas Vegeta has just attained a Divine Transformation of his own in order to wield the power of his Divine Technique properly, this means that Goku is still arguably conceptually ahead of Vegeta, even though Vegeta's form may take him ahead of Goku practically right now (sort of how his Moro arc SSjB^e was beyond Goku's Omen, though Ultra Instinct was still the 'New Frontier' of that arc).

So that may be the next step for Vegeta as well, in his training - after all, Beerus doesn't seem to need a transformation to wield that kind of power, either.

[Kinokima]

There. Fixed. Much better:

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Now it's just UI Sign (with grey highlights in the hair rather than white). Which is a much better look, you're not wrong there, but it can't really be recycled like that.
It's not possible to create many more recolour transformations (I think I've got the remaining options written down in another post), so Toyotaro, or whoever designed this form, knew that he had to change something else up, and he went for the eyebrows. I disagree with the decision, but I understand that he had to make one.

I think Toyo was trying to go for a Primal caveman look. It does kind of make sense when they mention things like instinct and going back to his Saiyan roots. I still dislike it aesthetically and kind of hope this isn’t the final look of the form.


Anyways I wish if they were going back to primal roots he would have grown back his tail instead of losing the eyebrows. It just looks so ugly to me lol.

[Grimlock]

*High-five*

Without eyebrows, it's distracting. With eyebrows it's...ok.

I'm just looking forward to its aura. Like I said, hopefully it is something similar to Super Saiyan God's aura when/if it gets animated.

Then again, if this saga doesn't get an anime adaptation, it'll be very difficult for us to see this form outside of the manga.

Now it just looks like Omen.

I'd much rather take the lack of eyebrows over trying to give Vegeta a new form and it just looks like a form Goku has already

Now it's just UI Sign (with grey highlights in the hair rather than white). Which is a much better look, you're not wrong there, but it can't really be recycled like that.

It only looks Ultra Instinct - Sign- because it's in the manga. Seeing it animated might turn out very differently.

I guess we can also wait for the colored manga, but I doubt it would make the form justice (since it's just still images, not animation).

But nothing about this manga or arc gives me the impression that the other characters will get anything like that so I can't get too worked up about it. Vegeta finding his own path has been hyped up for the last two arcs now and this is the payoff.

They were involved in Movie 15, Universe 6 saga, Universe Survival saga and Moro saga.

Lots of opportunities to give them something.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Context has improved this for me. I still think the design of the form as a form is pretty average - don't hate it, not wild about it (will be interesting to see if there is a recolour, or if the shading is just due to the aura) - but the transformation sequence looks great, I'm glad to see a definitive payoff for Vegeta's decision to follow a different path to Goku's (which in terms of its character seems to make good sense thematically to me, as I've been arguing further up the thread), and I'm pleased to see a mechanism put in place that has ramifications that explain and justify Beerus's position (thanks to DiscountDabi for the translation there).

Based on the translations we've got so far, Vegeta mentions that it's a form driven only by instinct and (probably paraphrasing Beerus in chapter 69) there were no limits to it. I guess you mentioned this in some of your posts? I'm not sure but I remember you drawing interesting parallels between the mindset of Ultra Instinct and Hakai and how both are opposite and at the same time similar (emptying the mind and using the instinct). This idea looks like more solid now

[DiscountDabi]

I will say this. When SSG first was revealed, people hated it. When Golden Frieza was revealed, people hated it. When Mastered Ultra Instinct was revealed, people hated it. When Ikari Broly was revealed, People hated it.

Give people enough time, they'll like it. Just gotta get over the initial shock.

[TheDankness]

I think goku is still on the level of vegeta (FOR NOW) because he survived that heart stab from granola

[precita]

I will say this. When SSG first was revealed, people hated it. When Golden Frieza was revealed, people hated it. When Mastered Ultra Instinct was revealed, people hated it. When Ikari Broly was revealed, People hated it.

Give people enough time, they'll like it. Just gotta get over the initial shock.

With the exception of Ultra Instinct, I think most of the other forms are still disliked.

[Jack Bz]

I will say this. When SSG first was revealed, people hated it. When Golden Frieza was revealed, people hated it. When Mastered Ultra Instinct was revealed, people hated it. When Ikari Broly was revealed, People hated it.

Give people enough time, they'll like it. Just gotta get over the initial shock.

Well for me personally...I didn't hate and often actually liked all of those right from the start. And for mastered ultra instinct, I feel it was more that people just preferred omen rather than thinking it was ugly. I was actually iffy on super saiyan blue, but not because of the design. I wanted more ssj god and was sad it was gone.

The second I saw this I thought it was wonderful



I'm just contrasting it to this design, which was the original "saiyan with the power of a god of destruction" concept design...and oh man do I prefer it a million times more.

But I guess things have changed a lot since then and it just comes down to personal taste. And the context of the manga might make me like the idea of a hideous form more. But it feels like a stop gap form to me, and not the kind of finalisation of Vegeta at his peak.

[TheMikado]

There. Fixed. Much better:

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Needs eyeliner

I still think SSJ4 eyeliner would have fixed it if they had to get rid of the eyebrows. But having both would probably be ok too.