"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheSaiyanGod]

Loved Vegeta's writing here. The chapter was just about fighting (not much progression) but it was great. Great use of Planet Cereal's landscapes, cool interactions between Vegeta and Granolah and a reference to what Monaito said when Granolah made the wish - He won't be the strongest forever.

Vegeta was basically teaching Granolah (Kyabe vibes now), and I'm glad they finally addressed the fact that Granolah is still inexperienced with his power.

[emperior]

In a vacuum, this chapter is immaculate.



This page in particular. Vegeta's design on these pages referring back to the Saiyan arc where he fought Goku, as he speaks about how it's been ages... that's very good meta-level storytelling. I fucking dig it.

But the second you add the greater context of the arc... this is all pointless. These fights are pointless. Granolah's character has become empty ever since he met these two, with nothing to say or do but be mad about his lost world. It's one-note, and frivolous.

But in a vacuum, the choreography, the characterization, the art, it's all splendid.

Agreed 100%. These two pages are among the best in all the manga. And Toyotaro drew them superbly. He keeps on improving with each chapter.

[kemuri07]

Great chapter. Very well drawn, the fight was nice and the dialogue too.
Vegeta was perfectly written this time around, so props to Toyotaro because he reignited the Vegeta fanboy within me.

I don’t mind the new form, I think it looks cool - no eyebrows definitely reminds me of Oozaru and it may be intentional. I wonder if the hair is black or actually a shade of purple/violet or whatever other color. It definitely gives Omen vibes, of there being a perfected version of it.

It seems like based on Vegeta’s dialogue that this fight will end up with Granolah losing, but I am waiting for some sort of plot twist where Granolah escapes somehow and starts training. The story is definitely getting interesting.

The highlight of the chapter for me was the page where Vegeta is all coughing up blood. I loved the art and dialogue there.

I have to imagine that this is merely a prologue to the actual story arc this is taking place. There's either two ways this ends: Either Vegeta wins and Granolah is forced to begin some level of training in order to take full control of his strength, or Vegeta loses but its' really a pyrrhic victory for Granolah as he learns the limitations of his wish.

But of course the real question everyone is going to keep asking: Where the hell is Freeza? Though I'm also starting to think this is going to end up as a gag where all of this happens because of him...and yet he's somewhere in the galaxy being extremely petty and shitty, but nowhere near the threat Granolah has been making him out to be.

[Koitsukai]

I loved Vegeta this month. How he went about the fight, but I do not like his new look. The eyebrows I do not like.

I wonder if his eyes are yellow, like Broly's. I really hope his hair remains black, and hope for a purple aura.

Too bad, he didn't tease Granola telling him that they had killed Freeza twice already. So you are trying to kill Freeza? lol, we killed that bitch twice and spared him the last time because it was getting too old.

[Necrosaber]

Having read the chapter again, man oh man I cannot wait until this get a proper animation. One of biggest criticisms of Super is the uninspired framing of battles and sequences. It often feels like single character panel shots of them talking. Vegeta and Granola pacing makes the scene much more dynamic and memorable. Vegeta trying to break Granola's leg is also a standout moment. Shows the difference between he and Goku.

The dialogue is great. I can't remember the last time I thought that. It elevates the transformation scene. Love the weird ki lines emanating from Vegeta. Tells me his ki is changed somehow. That something is off. This better have some great music along with it

[DiscountDabi]

I also like the confirmation that Goku and Vegeta can actually Sense God Ki. People were trying to tell me they still couldn't.

Spoiler:

I also love how Granolah used Oatmeel, Further Going towards mine and a lot of others theory that he isn't some mystery character and that he's just Granolahs AI like JARVIS. Really adds to his arsenal in an interesting way, along with what looks like a Ki sniper of sorts.

[LoganForkHands73]

Faaaantastic chapter, in spite of the spoilers. Not much more to say than that. I get the feeling that this arc is really hitting its stride now. Vegeta's new transformation is what it is, hopefully it proves itself in battle.

I'm loving the continued themes from the Moro arc, of training versus quick routes to power. Just seeing Vegeta enjoy himself in a fight without getting immediately bent over is a pleasure in itself. I'm also going all in on batistabus's idea that Oatmeel is just a figment of Granola's imagination, probably a long dead Cerealian friend, judging by the way Vegeta doesn't react to him speaking.

[Kinokima]

Great chapter. Very well drawn, the fight was nice and the dialogue too.
Vegeta was perfectly written this time around, so props to Toyotaro because he reignited the Vegeta fanboy within me.

I don’t mind the new form, I think it looks cool - no eyebrows definitely reminds me of Oozaru and it may be intentional. I wonder if the hair is black or actually a shade of purple/violet or whatever other color. It definitely gives Omen vibes, of there being a perfected version of it.

It seems like based on Vegeta’s dialogue that this fight will end up with Granolah losing, but I am waiting for some sort of plot twist where Granolah escapes somehow and starts training. The story is definitely getting interesting.

The highlight of the chapter for me was the page where Vegeta is all coughing up blood. I loved the art and dialogue there.

I have to imagine that this is merely a prologue to the actual story arc this is taking place. There's either two ways this ends: Either Vegeta wins and Granolah is forced to begin some level of training in order to take full control of his strength, or Vegeta loses but its' really a pyrrhic victory for Granolah as he learns the limitations of his wish.

While I would love if Vegeta actually got a clear victory here I would also definitely be satisfied with a Pyrrhic Victory for Granolah. If Vegeta is the one to teach Granolah a lesson and make him rethink things even if Vegeta ends up losing that would make me happy as a Vegeta fan.

I just don’t want Vegeta to transform and then get the typical beat down.

[BWri]

Pretty good Vegeta showcase. He's stronger than most of us gave him credit for. And there's so many great quotes towards the end, all from Vegeta.

"Hmph...That's the great thing about a battle. The outcome is never quite set in stone. It's exactly what I love about fighting."

"Strongest? Second strongest? Rankings are well and good ... But they only reflect a moment in time. Once that moment has passed by, it's nothing but history."

"There's no planet to protect. No people to save. Just me, immersed in battle. My happy place."

The Super manga is slowly but surely turning me into a Vegeta fan. Anyways, I loved the artwork as well, and how Geets could see through Granolah's lack of experience. This confirms what many of us have been saying previously, Granolah is not a savvy fighter. There's no way he was very strong prior to his wish.

[Nightzus]

Not really used to posting here but I wanted to share my thoughts on this particular chapter (for obvious reasons).

I won’t say I hated it… but I kinda did honestly.
The art is great, the fight scenes are great, I laughed when I saw that panel of Vegeta swimming (I mean… Come on…) and the dialogue was solid but that did not really feel like Vegeta.
Well the arrogance and the tone could be in line with his character, although I feel post Buu Vegeta would be beyond that.
But that explanation of why Granola should have trained, that he’s not used to this power, that what Vegeta loves about fighting is that the outcome is unclear, regardless of the power,… That all feels like what Goku should have said.

I’m most certainly biased because I’m a Goku fan but I’m also a Vegeta fan and I feel like he should be past this “I can set my power free and kill you because you don’t listen”. What’s with his remorse for what he did to the Namekians?
I feel like this Vegeta should feel bad for what the Saiyans did in the past, being one of the last and the Prince/King at that.

And why the constant need to put Vegeta at the same level of Goku?
It diminishes the impact that Ultra Instinct had. Now it’s a power and a form that I no longer care about while it should have been the pinnacle of strength, technique and aura (not the flamy thing).

Goku is dumber and dumber and Vegeta is Gokuer and Gokuer is what I get from this arc and the previous ones.
And I hate it.

[JulieYBM]

This feels like twenty pages dragged across forty-five pages. Not much really happened in this chapter, so on its own it was really pretty boring and I feel like Toyo-tarou could have accomplished the same paltry beats in half or less than half the number of pages.

[Brettjr25]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!!! GoD form! And people kept sh*tting on me about bringing up Toppo GoD form because apparently it was an anime only thing.

[Omgzord]

Chapter was fire. Great writing and speech from Vegeta there.

I was actually smiling for most of the chapter and the builds up was on point. hype for next month

[BWri]

This feels like twenty pages dragged across forty-five pages. Not much really happened in this chapter, so on its own it was really pretty boring and I feel like Toyo-tarou could have accomplished the same paltry beats in half or less than half the number of pages.

That was my one criticism as well, at least from my first reading. I was thinking this would be a hard read if broken up into smaller chapters like Toriyama-san used to do. It's definitely an excessive amount of panel to panel detail, but I suppose he wanted to hold on this moment and end with the transformation reveal. I'm not too mad at that.

[Brettjr25]

Toppo having a god form was anime only this is the manga thread.
The number of people who only now read the post ToP manga and apply anime onl scenes is really annoying...

I guess Toyotarou is one of those annoying people huh TobyS?

[JulieYBM]

This feels like twenty pages dragged across forty-five pages. Not much really happened in this chapter, so on its own it was really pretty boring and I feel like Toyo-tarou could have accomplished the same paltry beats in half or less than half the number of pages.

That was my one criticism as well, at least from my first reading. I was thinking this would be a hard read if broken up into smaller chapters like Toriyama-san used to do. It's definitely an excessive amount of panel to panel detail, but I suppose he wanted to hold on this moment and end with the transformation reveal. I'm not too mad at that.

I feel like he does this with every chapter, though. Instead of three fifteen page chapters it feels like one fifteen page chapter spread across forty-five pages. His battle scenes just aren't that exciting.

[Kinokima]

Not really used to posting here but I wanted to share my thoughts on this particular chapter (for obvious reasons).

I won’t say I hated it… but I kinda did honestly.
The art is great, the fight scenes are great, I laughed when I saw that panel of Vegeta swimming (I mean… Come on…) and the dialogue was solid but that did not really feel like Vegeta.
Well the arrogance and the tone could be in line with his character, although I feel post Buu Vegeta would be beyond that.
But that explanation of why Granola should have trained, that he’s not used to this power, that what Vegeta loves about fighting is that the outcome is unclear, regardless of the power,… That all feels like what Goku should have said.

I’m most certainly biased because I’m a Goku fan but I’m also a Vegeta fan and I feel like he should be past this “I can set my power free and kill you because you don’t listen”. What’s with his remorse for what he did to the Namekians?
I feel like this Vegeta should feel bad for what the Saiyans did in the past, being one of the last and the Prince/King at that.

And why the constant need to put Vegeta at the same level of Goku?
It diminishes the impact that Ultra Instinct had. Now it’s a power and a form that I no longer care about while it should have been the pinnacle of strength, technique and aura (not the flamy thing).

Goku is dumber and dumber and Vegeta is Gokuer and Gokuer is what I get from this arc and the previous ones.
And I hate it.

Both Goku and Vegeta tried to talk to Granolah and Granolah’s response I want revenge against ALL Saiyans even if you really had nothing to do about it. He is already not listening to reason. Should Vegeta let him kill him and Goku because of what happened in the past because that is what he is trying to do?

Goku has plenty of great fights. Even though we saw Vegeta training with a new move last arc he didn’t even get half a chapter before he got knocked out with his own move and lost again and Goku got to steal the spotlight. And Goku vs Moro was also a fantastic fight arguably before the Senzu scene. But Goku still got the final blow in the end. He may very well in this arc as well since this is just the beginning. On the other hand Vegeta hasn’t had a fight like this in like forever.

We don’t know if Vegeta is going to win or lose. We don’t know if Vegeta is actually going to “kill” Granolah despite what he may say to him in the midst of battle . So making judgements like this until we see the outcome seems premature.

[Brettjr25]

This feels like twenty pages dragged across forty-five pages. Not much really happened in this chapter, so on its own it was really pretty boring and I feel like Toyo-tarou could have accomplished the same paltry beats in half or less than half the number of pages.

I completely disagree with this. Manga is a combination of entertainment, story and setup. I understand hating on chapters that filled up with nothing but pointless battles that go nowhere with generic fights but this absolutely was not that. The way they fought was completely different type of battle and tactics. Usually I'm bored with fights like with Goku's because we already knew the outcome but this one had me on the edge of my seat every panel. Not only that but the Vegeta characterization was at its best since Buu arc.

Vegeta writing has always been bogged down with either proving he's not in Goku shadow or putting him in Goku's shadow, each panel was moving and having Vegeta acted based off his own character, who he was in the past, who he is now and more. Then the finally, which the chapter built up through by going on about how Vegeta was happy to fight for the sake of fighting not protecting but at the same time talking about how he was Freeza lackey and left his old ways behind was great!

For a chapter to be good it doesn't have to move the plot forward at a pointless break kneck speed but make use of all the pages it had, which it did.

[JulieYBM]

Timing and execution are important. Moving at a snail's pace for what is likely to be a two or three chapter fight does not work. Two things happened in this chapter: Vegeta tries telling Granola the truth and Granola refuses to believe him and Vegeta transforms. That is maybe 15-20 pages of story and character connected by fighting. The back half of this chapter should have been Vegeta using his new form. With the way things are going we're going to be stuck with forty-five pages of standing in place for the next chapter. That doesn't work for such large chapters, especially when they take a month to to release.

[Brettjr25]

Timing and execution are important. Moving at a snail's pace for what is likely to be a two or three chapter fight does not work. Two things happened in this chapter: Vegeta tries telling Granola the truth and Granola refuses to believe him and Vegeta transforms. That is maybe 15-20 pages of story and character connected by fighting. The back half of this chapter should have been Vegeta using his new form. With the way things are going we're going to be stuck with forty-five pages of standing in place for the next chapter. That doesn't work for such large chapters, especially when they take a month to to release.

The timing and execution were perfect this chapter but I see where the disconnect is. You only believe two things happened this chapter when two things did not. Seeing new forms fights and generic stuff like that shouldn't be the only focus. Developing characters trumps all that for me and seeing the length of detail that went into this one made it for me.