"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

I personally don't believe that's the case here. Monaito and Vegeta both make it sound like his wish was foolish because it only refers to a fixed point in time.

That's what they said, but clearly Granolah unlocked a new power in this fight. It could be that he doesn't know the limits of his strength and is slowly unlocking more of it as stronger opponents show up, but it's functionally the same as the wish making him get stronger as new people show up.

[LightBing]

To be fair, the chapter was always vague about what it meant when it said that Granolah was the strongest. I think Toyo is playing with expectations here. Most of us were assuming that, while Granolah would likely win this bout, that he would grow frustrated over dealing with characters who actively train. The twist is that the wish is actually what it is--Granolah is the strongest, and therefore gets stronger on the fly.

Which will force Goku and Vegeta to approach this character differentially.

Perhaps, we'll see how it pawns out. It's still an eyesore to me. I know Dragon Ball is all about characters constantly evolving but Granolah seemed like the exception, specially with the 50% clone reveal that showed how ahead he was from the Saiyans.

[Jack Bz]

I personally don't believe that's the case here. Monaito and Vegeta both make it sound like his wish was foolish because it only refers to a fixed point in time.

That's what they said, but clearly Granolah unlocked a new power in this fight. It could be that he doesn't know the limits of his strength and is slowly unlocking more of it as stronger opponents show up, but it's functionally the same as the wish making him get stronger as new people show up.

Granolah unlocking his power seems to be directly related to what Vegeta is saying, though. He's getting many teachable moments from him during the fight. It seems more to me that he is unlocking more of his power out of practice and getting used to battle rather than the wish constantly one upping his strength.

And yeah, what Monaito and Vegeta said.

[DiscountDabi]

The way it seems is that Granolah is slightly above Vegeta in terms of power and the new eye thing is him Outskilling Vegeta. Which I think is better than just overpowering Vegeta entireley.

Also Oatmeel flying off is interesting. Perhaps He'll go to Goku. If Goku puts on Oatmeel and Helps Vegeta fight Granolah they might stand a chance. And it'll take Oatmeel, Vegeta, and Goku to knock some sense into the breakfast man while the Heeters plan comes togethor. Despite the leaks and that overeaction, I am quite interested in what happens next.

[Sora Saiyan]

That's nonsense tho. The dragons literally just "unlocked" the latent potential he could have achieved in his lifetime.
There is no such rule such as "I will be stronger when stronger people appear"

which of course includes power that he could have achieved if he trained like Goku and Vegeta. Which means that whatever limitations his powers may have...we certainly aren't anywhere close to it.

This has basically been my take "any and all power you could have accumlated" meaning that any ability he could've possibly learned in his life he now has access to. Hence why he has Moros ability, on top of Hakai and such. He has the capability to learn it given the chance, so he now knows it. This includes abilities which he could've learned in his past, not just his future as at the time of the wish Moro is dead. So what we're looking at here is essentially a composite Granolah who has techniques from all different versions of himself who could've come into contact with these moves and such. Moros energy draining, UI, and UE were above him full stop.

[DestructoDisc]

Spoiler: comes out

Everyone complains and gets angry

Chapter: gets released

"Oh well it wasn't that bad afterall lol"

I swear this happens literally month. Even when the anime was airing the fandom was acting like this.

This song perfectly fits the fandom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXt5NWY5Ay0

[kemuri07]

Vegeta is, in RPG terms, the tank: a bruiser that can take an unbelievable amount of damage.

I wouldn't even call Vegeta a tank. Soaking up damage isn't really his bag. His thing is that he has an insane pain threshold. Since the first fight he had in the series where he took a spirit bomb, a 4x kaioken kamehameha and fought an Oozaru before his body gave out, all the way to him frightening Pure Buu with how willing he is to fight despite barely being able to stand. Tanks are made for taking damage, but Vegeta is like everyone else, except that he won't let himself stay down. The difference between Durability and Endurance, really.

Also, don't use the words "ecstasy" and "kink" when talking about taking damage. Brings something else entirely to mind.

Hey man....you said it, not me.

I mean he does get stronger the more he takes damage after all.





"Get ready for a dose of my...TOUGH LOVE!!!"

That's nonsense tho. The dragons literally just "unlocked" the latent potential he could have achieved in his lifetime.
There is no such rule such as "I will be stronger when stronger people appear"

which of course includes power that he could have achieved if he trained like Goku and Vegeta. Which means that whatever limitations his powers may have...we certainly aren't anywhere close to it.

This has basically been my take "any and all power you could have accumlated" meaning that any ability he could've possibly learned in his life he now has access to. Hence why he has Moros ability, on top of Hakai and such. He has the capability to learn it given the chance, so he now knows it. This includes abilities which he could've learned in his past, not just his future as at the time of the wish Moro is dead. So what we're looking at here is essentially a composite Granolah who has techniques from all different versions of himself who could've come into contact with these moves and such.

Right. I mean compare that to Broly who is pretty much DBZ's main thesis in general: I AM STRONGEST. I AM MAXIMUM.

HAHAHA I JUST CAUGHT VEGETA CALLS HIM SELF ALL EGO. THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT I WAS CALLING HIM BEFORE!!!

Granolla (I swear I'm just going to go with whatever variation of his name I feel like) is much smarter than that and while he's quick to anger, he doesn't go into full bloodrage mode like Broly does.

[TKA]

Finally, since I know wrestling fans are in this thread:

ALL EGO ETHAN VEGETA

humor for the few people who would get this.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Spoiler: comes out

Everyone complains and gets angry

Chapter: gets released

"Oh well it wasn't that bad afterall lol"

I swear this happens literally month. Even when the anime was airing the fandom was acting like this.

This song perfectly fits the fandom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXt5NWY5Ay0

People acting like Vegeta got TKO’d like Goku in the previous chapters when he’s essentially on the back foot now. He’s somewhat down but definitely not out the game.

[TheSaiyanGod]

To be fair, the chapter was always vague about what it meant when it said that Granolah was the strongest. I think Toyo is playing with expectations here. Most of us were assuming that, while Granolah would likely win this bout, that he would grow frustrated over dealing with characters who actively train. The twist is that the wish is actually what it is--Granolah is the strongest, and therefore gets stronger on the fly.

Which will force Goku and Vegeta to approach this character differentially.

To me it felt more like he's getting used to his new power. Granolah mentions to Vegeta that he would make up for his lack of experience against him, and after that Goku notices that his moves are becoming sharper.

The new eye thing seems to me something entirely apart from wish, tho. Since it's a trait of his race, I don't think the dragon would have been able to awaken it through the wish. Although he showed techniques he didn't have before after using the DBs, maybe a battle like this was what it took for him to draw the rest of the power he still wasn't able to acess.

[Necrosaber]

Spoiler: comes out

Everyone complains and gets angry

Chapter: gets released

"Oh well it wasn't that bad afterall lol"

I swear this happens literally month. Even when the anime was airing the fandom was acting like this.

This song perfectly fits the fandom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXt5NWY5Ay0

Yea it's become pretty exhausting, to the point where I don't even want to engage the fandom anymore. I definitely think some of the more popular youtubers are contributing to this cycle of negativity and overreactions. Let's make a whole video complaining about an out of context, single panel then a follow up video twisting ourselves into pretzels trying to justify jumping the gun! Then add character fanboyism and it becomes a mess of bad faith criticism. So tired of it.

As far as the chapter goes, I enjoyed it for the most part. Really curious about what will happen with Oatmeal and if it'll continue to follow Granola, or link up with someone else. Will anyone be able to bring Granola to his senses? I'm glad Vegeta was able to explain the fate of the Saiyans in more detail to Granola. I imagine that if Gas becomes stronger and humbles Granola, that he might consider teaming up with Goku and Vegeta to go after the Heeters and Frieza.

Also, Vegeta ditching his armor makes me wish he'd go back to his Buu saga outfit. If taking damage makes him stronger, might as well get rid of it

[HeroR]

People say this fight was even and I have to disagree. Vegeta took a bunch of damage to make himself stronger and was starting to lose consciousness. Granola was barely damage despite taking all those hits.

In short, Vegeta defeated himself. Granola just helped him along.

[Thani]

The way I saw it... Granolah developed a bunch of powers and abilities in the future. But his present self that made the wish doesn't know about all of them.

So basically, Granolah getting the hang of actual battle is "unlocking" skills his body already had, but he wasn't completely aware yet.

Basically a convenient excuse for Toyo to pull any power up whenever he feels Granolah should, really.

All in all, I like that Vegeta's loss was more on the side of his inability to properly control his new state. He gets stronger by taking damage, but damage is still damage and he has a limit to how much punishment he can take. So he hit his limits, despite being pretty much even with Granolah, and dropped out first. What says a lot is that Granolah needed two special eyes to counter Vegeta's blast (dunno why, since he's just seeing better. perhaps he saw a weak spot in the blast and aimed there?). Could Granolah see through a fresh UI Goku with them? He explicitly can't with just one. Food for thought!

People say this fight was even and I have to disagree. Vegeta took a bunch of damage to make himself stronger and was starting to lose consciousness. Granola was barely damage despite taking all those hits.

In short, Vegeta defeated himself. Granola just helped him along.

I disagree, more or less. There were plenty of times that Granolah kept being overwhelmed by Vegeta, and equaly as many where Vegeta took hits on purpose to push himself further despite already showing an advantage. Vegeta defeated himself, but Granolah wasn't exactly on control of the fight either.

[jd55513]

That's nonsense tho. The dragons literally just "unlocked" the latent potential he could have achieved in his lifetime.
There is no such rule such as "I will be stronger when stronger people appear"

which of course includes power that he could have achieved if he trained like Goku and Vegeta. Which means that whatever limitations his powers may have...we certainly aren't anywhere close to it.

This has basically been my take "any and all power you could have accumlated" meaning that any ability he could've possibly learned in his life he now has access to. Hence why he has Moros ability, on top of Hakai and such. He has the capability to learn it given the chance, so he now knows it. This includes abilities which he could've learned in his past, not just his future as at the time of the wish Moro is dead. So what we're looking at here is essentially a composite Granolah who has techniques from all different versions of himself who could've come into contact with these moves and such. Moros energy draining, UI, and UE were above him full stop.

I disagree, now that we know the Cerealieans are similar to the Saiyans not just in History, but possibly Biology too(Saiyan power) Granolah told Vegeta that he's not the only one who can get stronger in battle...

I think as Granolah continues to fight Vegeta and Goku, he may activate Ultra Instinct, I was so sure it would be this chapter, but we got the Super Cerealiean instead lol.

He did the rock application of Hakai this chapter (making it the 6th time he has done the "similar hakai" imo)

Let us wait and see.

[Noitsnothim]

Not a bad chapter
- the name of Vegeta's form suits him big time don't know why anyone would dislike it
- the fight choreography and panels weren't as good as last chapters but interesting ideas played with
- appreciate the fact that the entire cast of this saga are now involved
- Vegeta taking the hits and blasts dead on was dumb but that's his Ego for ya
- Granolah's innate power coming out thru their battle could be his version of SS (Super Cerelian) and his accuracy just got even better than before
- The heeters are now on Planet Cereal and the next set of battles will start so I'm looking forward to seeing what Gas and Elec are all about

Predictions for next chapter or future ones

Spoiler:

- Oatmeel and Seventhree becoming one could be in the cards
- possibility of monaito being sacrificed in order to stop the heeters from making their wish would be a nice twist
- Granolah's full red eyes state could be something of legends that no other of his race could achieve except him I wonder if it'll be called Super Cerelian
- Gas and Namekian connection possible?

[JulieYBM]

Oh, Ultra Ego is supposed to psyche Vegeta up by taking hits. I see.

[Thani]

Oh, Ultra Ego is supposed to psyche Vegeta up by taking hits. I see.

Yup. I quite enjoy it, reminds me of Angra Mainyu's Noble Phantasm that redirects damage. The obvious downside is that Vegeta can still lose before accumulating enough power-through-damage to beat his opponent.

[PurestEvil]

Spoiler: comes out

Everyone complains and gets angry

Chapter: gets released

"Oh well it wasn't that bad afterall lol"

I swear this happens literally month. Even when the anime was airing the fandom was acting like this.

This song perfectly fits the fandom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXt5NWY5Ay0

Same o-old! Same o-old fan outraaage!

[Koitsukai]

So, what colour is Vegeta's hair, eyes an aura? I can't take this any longer, please an answer, Toyo.


Good to see hakai in action, so that's how Beerus gets his power, is not just blowing stuff up.

[Noitsnothim]

So, what colour is Vegeta's hair, eyes an aura? I can't take this any longer, please an answer, Toyo.


Good to see hakai in action, so that's how Beerus gets his power, is not just blowing stuff up.

the trailer for the previous chapter and this one keeps using blue and purple

it's weird but maybe we'll find out this month at Jump carnival