Is There An Even Higher Level of Mastery of SS Than FPSS & Do You Get God Ki From Mastering MA & Ki?

[Steven Bloodriver]

Short Version: Does Full Power Super Saiyan evolve into an even more mastered form of Super Saiyan from a user of FPSSJ achieving 100% mastery of his or her base form, Super Saiyan form, and Ki? Or is Full Power Super Saiyan the absolute pinnacle of mastery of the Super Saiyan form?

Also, in order to achieve Godhood or Goddesshood, do you have to achieve a certain level of mastery of Martial Arts and Ki?

Long Version: Once a user of the unmastered form of Super Saiyan would have been able to achieve the mastered form of Super Saiyan, or otherwise known as Full Power Super Saiyan, does that mean that the said user would have been able to achieve the absolute pinnacle of power that the Super Saiyan form itself would have been able to give him or her?

Or can an even greater form of mastery of the Super Saiyan form be possible to achieve if a user of Full Power Super Saiyan would have went out of his or her way to have achieved mastery of his or her base form, mastery of his or her Super Saiyan form, and mastery of his or her Ki?

And also, one last question about using Martial Arts and Ki, do you really need to be a Master or a Mistress of Martial Arts and of the usage of Ki in general in order to have naturally evolved the said Ki that you use into God Ki or Goddess Ki?

[Thani]

Short Version: Does Full Power Super Saiyan evolve into an even more mastered form of Super Saiyan from a user of FPSSJ achieving 100% mastery of his or her base form, Super Saiyan form, and Ki? Or is Full Power Super Saiyan the absolute pinnacle of mastery of the Super Saiyan form?

Also, in order to achieve Godhood or Goddesshood, do you have to achieve a certain level of mastery of Martial Arts and Ki?

Long Version: Once a user of the unmastered form of Super Saiyan would have been able to achieve the mastered form of Super Saiyan, or otherwise known as Full Power Super Saiyan, does that mean that the said user would have been able to achieve the absolute pinnacle of power that the Super Saiyan form itself would have been able to give him or her?

Or can an even greater form of mastery of the Super Saiyan form be possible to achieve if a user of Full Power Super Saiyan would have went out of his or her way to have achieved mastery of his or her base form, mastery of his or her Super Saiyan form, and mastery of his or her Ki?

And also, one last question about using Martial Arts and Ki, do you really need to be a Master or a Mistress of Martial Arts and of the usage of Ki in general in order to have naturally evolved the said Ki that you use into God Ki or Goddess Ki?

By FPSS you mean what Goku and Gohan achieved in the Cell Games or the green haired super saiyan that Broly (BR) became at the end of his movie?

For your second question, I don't think so. Dende, for example, has God ki because he's the God of Earth. Presumably, King Kai and the Kaioshin also possesses God ki. I wouldn't call them such masters of martial arts, to be fair.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Short Version: Does Full Power Super Saiyan evolve into an even more mastered form of Super Saiyan from a user of FPSSJ achieving 100% mastery of his or her base form, Super Saiyan form, and Ki? Or is Full Power Super Saiyan the absolute pinnacle of mastery of the Super Saiyan form?

Also, in order to achieve Godhood or Goddesshood, do you have to achieve a certain level of mastery of Martial Arts and Ki?

Long Version: Once a user of the unmastered form of Super Saiyan would have been able to achieve the mastered form of Super Saiyan, or otherwise known as Full Power Super Saiyan, does that mean that the said user would have been able to achieve the absolute pinnacle of power that the Super Saiyan form itself would have been able to give him or her?

Or can an even greater form of mastery of the Super Saiyan form be possible to achieve if a user of Full Power Super Saiyan would have went out of his or her way to have achieved mastery of his or her base form, mastery of his or her Super Saiyan form, and mastery of his or her Ki?

And also, one last question about using Martial Arts and Ki, do you really need to be a Master or a Mistress of Martial Arts and of the usage of Ki in general in order to have naturally evolved the said Ki that you use into God Ki or Goddess Ki?

By FPSS you mean what Goku and Gohan achieved in the Cell Games or the green haired super saiyan that Broly (BR) became at the end of his movie?

For your second question, I don't think so. Dende, for example, has God ki because he's the God of Earth. Presumably, King Kai and the Kaioshin also possesses God ki. I wouldn't call them such masters of martial arts, to be fair.

1) The Full Power Super Saiyan forms of Son Goku and Son Gohan.

2) I am asking if you are able to gain access to God Ki by training in the form of trying to master your level of Martial Arts skill and control over Ki.

[BWri]

The series seems to have made FPSSJ/Mastered/Grade 4 the default version of SSJ since the Buu saga. Cabba was equal to Vegeta as an SSJ, meaning Cabba's also Grade 4. And with Kale and Caulifla being superior to him, they likely have Grade 4 as well ... same with Goten and Trunks in the Buu saga, depending on how strong you think they are.

To answer your question directly: I think each form of SSJ can be further mastered including FPSSJ. The unfortunate part is that the form is so outclassed by SSJ2 that there's almost no point in mastering it further. SSJ2 seems to be the best mortal form to master since Trunks and Vegeta pushed theirs past the SSJ3 level (Vegeta vs Beerus & Trunks vs Goku) and that makes sense due to SSJ3 having so many drawbacks and SSJ2 having none. If they could master SSJ3 then that would be even better, but since they have the god forms they don't even bother and I can't blame them.

God Ki is a more esoteric version of ki so it's not possible yet to get it from mortal martial arts training methods. We saw Goku get it via a specific ritual used to create a god and we saw Vegeta get it by training in an area filled with condensed godly ki so I think exposure and absorption of god ki is probably needed before you can begin to create it yourself (at least in the anime). I forget how it happened in the manga.

[Thani]

Since it's Grade 4, then the answer is really "yes, you turn it into SS2 and SS3". As per Toriyama, that's exactly what they are, powered up versions of the normal Super Saiyan. Heck, you can even include SS4 in the list if you wanna, despite looking so different, since it's still part of the mainline evolution of Super Saiyan.

As for God Ki, really, I think BWri said it all. Unless you're a full fledged god, then you should really need something more esoteric in order to achieve it. Be it a ritual, a special training, absorbing it and adapting in order to generate god ki yourself. I don't see regular training cutting it.

[Grimlock]

I fail to see the connection between "mastery" and "power up". To master something is to have complete control over that something, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 do not come from mastering Super Saiyan. One can have the latter forms without mastering Super Saiyan.

Heck, you can even include SS4 in the list if you wanna, despite looking so different, since it's still part of the mainline evolution of Super Saiyan.

You can't, if the series weren't clear enough, we have statement saying the exact opposite of that.

[BWri]

I fail to see the connection between "mastery" and "power up". To master something is to have complete control over that something

Dragon Ball is nebulous in this regard, because mastery more often than not yields more power. FPSSJ is just one example of that.

Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 do not come from mastering Super Saiyan. One can have the latter forms without mastering Super Saiyan.

I'm not sure if this is true but even if it is it seems to be character dependent. Goku and Vegeta seemed to realize that new forms could be achieved only after training substantially with the previous form. This happened for Vegeta gained SSJ and Goku during the Android/Cell arc and for Goku after he attained SSJ2 in the afterlife. Every other character seems to skip same those training rigors after seeing Goku or Vegeta use the forms.

[SSJgogeto]

Does Full Power Super Saiyan evolve into an even more mastered form of Super Saiyan from a user of FPSSJ achieving 100% mastery of his or her base form, Super Saiyan form, and Ki?

IMO, yes. In fact, I believe that Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks already achieved this "new" form, which I call Chou Super Saiyan.

Also, in order to achieve Godhood or Goddesshood, do you have to achieve a certain level of mastery of Martial Arts and Ki?

Most probably, yes.

[Grimlock]

Dragon Ball is nebulous in this regard, because mastery more often than not yields more power. FPSSJ is just one example of that.

Maybe you can infer that Super Saiyan Full Power/Super Saiyan Grade 4 no longer has that 50x multiplier that the "unmastered" Super Saiyan has, but I don't think we have anything confirming, let alone supporting that idea. Goku also never implied that one of the goals of mastering Super Saiyan was to yield more power (as far as I remember), so there's that.

I'm not sure if this is true but even if it is it seems to be character dependent. Goku and Vegeta seemed to realize that new forms could be achieved only after training substantially with the previous form. This happened for Vegeta gained SSJ and Goku during the Android/Cell arc and for Goku after he attained SSJ2 in the afterlife. Every other character seems to skip same those training rigors after seeing Goku or Vegeta use the forms.

I think it's more of an advice thing. Even in Dragon Ball Super, Goku says it's better to master Super Saiyan before going Super Saiyan 2 (or to master Super Saiyan 2 before going Super Saiyan 3, don't remember exactly, but anyway). To Goku, he would advise you to do that, but it's not something set in stone, a criteria that must be met. If that were true, Caulifla and Cabba wouldn't have transformed into Super Saiyan 2 in the first place, as they haven't mastered Super Saiyan yet. So if you're skeptical about this, Caulifla and Cabba are right there.

Unless, of course, you follow the manga continuity, where they don't achieve Super Saiyan 2 at all.

[BWri]

Maybe you can infer that Super Saiyan Full Power/Super Saiyan Grade 4 no longer has that 50x multiplier that the "unmastered" Super Saiyan has, but I don't think we have anything confirming, let alone supporting that idea.

I certainly do. It makes more sense than anything else if we go by their performances prior to Cell then against Cell and even later in the Buu arc. The only other likely alternatives would be that it makes their base forms stronger, which is a concept that isn't at all consistent mostly thanks to post Z content, or you could take it at face value and say that they did simply make their SSJ more efficient but the show is nebulous about that so you have to ask "what does that mean?"

Since the result is Goku and Gohan having flat out more power than Vegeta and Trunks, I guess you could say that they keep more of their Supah Saiya-jin Powa!!! from leaking but the result is the same ... they end up flat out stronger than Vegeta and Trunks even with Vegeta and Trunks having an additional year of training. As a result, it's likely that Vegeta and Trunks have a stronger base but weaker SSJ.

Anyway, FPSSJ was a great concept but its implementation was flawed from the very beginning. The only time it showed any sort of greater efficiency is when Goku and Gohan were just relaxing in SSJ and using it as a base form otherwise it was just an astronomical power boost. Subsequent arcs seem to even drop the concept.

Goku also never implied that one of the goals of mastering Super Saiyan was to yield more power (as far as I remember), so there's that.

I believe you're right, but the result is still that Goku and Gohan gained much more power in 1 year of training than Vegeta and Trunks did in 2. If we go by just that first year alone Goku and Gohan might have easily dwarfed the other 2 by 4x, with Vegeta and Trunks gaining ground in the second trip. Even if its just ki efficiency as Goku explained it, the result is a form that remains nearly twice as strong as Vegeta's.

I think it's more of an advice thing. Even in Dragon Ball Super, Goku says it's better to master Super Saiyan before going Super Saiyan 2 (or to master Super Saiyan 2 before going Super Saiyan 3, don't remember exactly, but anyway). To Goku, he would advise you to do that, but it's not something set in stone, a criteria that must be met. If that were true, Caulifla and Cabba wouldn't have transformed into Super Saiyan 2 in the first place, as they haven't mastered Super Saiyan yet. So if you're skeptical about this, Caulifla and Cabba are right there.

Unless, of course, you follow the manga continuity, where they don't achieve Super Saiyan 2 at all.

This is pretty much how I see it.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta seems to be the one that reached the best version of Super Saiyan, which is the SSGSS Evolution form. Not to mention his ki control is very sharp at the moment and he learned godly techniques. So, to answer your question he is probably the Saiyan that has the best mastery over Super Saiyan, as far as it can evolve.