The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Fusions go beyond simply adding or multiplying by two that's bee shown over and over. Piccolo beating everyone in the Ginyu force by himself is saying his base is higher than Goku after his 100x Gravity training which is just so wrong.

In the anime Piccolo would've destroyed frost with his Special beam Cannon, he only lost from the poisoning. The poison made frost a threat in U6 Tournament not raw power.

It's not a fusion, it's assimilation and Guru said that this about it:

Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

So yeah, Piccolo merging with God is a 2 times multiplier making him after his training with Kaio stronger than Ginyu based on Nail's comments.

Piccolo did a limit breaking Makankosappo and Frost was severely weakened. Final form Frost was stronger than base Goku so he was stronger than SS3 Gotenks as well. Cell has no chance at all against him.

Guru is saying he might not have had to die vs Nappa & Vegeta, might is not an absolute statement. Guru is reading Krillin's mind here and basing everything from PIccolo with a power level of low thousands. So if that was simply multipled by two that wouldn't be doing anything.

Also Guru is not absolute in other ways, he is unable to fully unlock Gohan's potential. He can be mistaken.

PIccolo Jr when remerged with Kami is still a different being to the nameless namekian. He is not Daimou.

Saying he split the power he was gifted at birth is moot as well as Piccolo obviously trained far harder than Kami did, Kami is old and frail and power has waned. Kami's power level is less than Beginning of Z Goku and Piccolo. fusion/assimilation isn't shown to be additive or simply multiplicative by 2.

Impression I always got was that Nail was still a superior fighter to Piccolo at the point of their fusing.

Goku required Kaioken to be stronger than Ginyu, Piccolo is not stronger than this version of Goku that has mastered 100x Gravity.

Piccolo is at 3,500 during Vegeta's attack on Earth. Multiply that by 2 and he would be at 7,000. He would have a far greater chance at survival with that.

Gohan's potential as a 5 year old is different than when he's 11. Besides Guru never said he could bring it out entirely.

If Piccolo was different than Daimao then he couldn't merge with God. Simple as that.

The first thing Nail does when seeing Piccolo is to praise his power. He definitely is not stronger.

The series has never cared for consistentcy like that. Gohan in a single day managed to make all of Goku's training with Whis irrelevant.

[Koitsukai]

Super Buu vs SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, SS2 Gohan (post Z-sword, pre-potential unlock), SS Goten, SS Trunks, and Shin doing something in the background I dunno.
(If they win, who tilts the scale? is it the kids? without them they cannot win?, is it Gohan? are the kids overkill?)

Buuhan vs SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, SS3 Gotenks.

[Krillin1994]

It's not a fusion, it's assimilation and Guru said that this about it:



So yeah, Piccolo merging with God is a 2 times multiplier making him after his training with Kaio stronger than Ginyu based on Nail's comments.

Piccolo did a limit breaking Makankosappo and Frost was severely weakened. Final form Frost was stronger than base Goku so he was stronger than SS3 Gotenks as well. Cell has no chance at all against him.

Guru is saying he might not have had to die vs Nappa & Vegeta, might is not an absolute statement. Guru is reading Krillin's mind here and basing everything from PIccolo with a power level of low thousands. So if that was simply multipled by two that wouldn't be doing anything.

Also Guru is not absolute in other ways, he is unable to fully unlock Gohan's potential. He can be mistaken.

PIccolo Jr when remerged with Kami is still a different being to the nameless namekian. He is not Daimou.

Saying he split the power he was gifted at birth is moot as well as Piccolo obviously trained far harder than Kami did, Kami is old and frail and power has waned. Kami's power level is less than Beginning of Z Goku and Piccolo. fusion/assimilation isn't shown to be additive or simply multiplicative by 2.

Impression I always got was that Nail was still a superior fighter to Piccolo at the point of their fusing.

Goku required Kaioken to be stronger than Ginyu, Piccolo is not stronger than this version of Goku that has mastered 100x Gravity.

Piccolo is at 3,500 during Vegeta's attack on Earth. Multiply that by 2 and he would be at 7,000. He would have a far greater chance at survival with that.

Gohan's potential as a 5 year old is different than when he's 11. Besides Guru never said he could bring it out entirely.

If Piccolo was different than Daimao then he couldn't merge with God. Simple as that.

The first thing Nail does when seeing Piccolo is to praise his power. He definitely is not stronger.

The series has never cared for consistentcy like that. Gohan in a single day managed to make all of Goku's training with Whis irrelevant.

Goku praises Krillin and Gohan's strength in Saiyan saga, he's always going around praising people's power who are far below him. Considering normal namekian strength is low thousands Nail can praise someone who is well above that. He makes a point of saying he will let Piccolo be the dominant personality as if Piccolo were worried that he wouldn't be the dominant one implying he is weaker. Despite that we still get a moment of Nail showing through to Dende when he shouldn't which again could be a show of his strentgh in the makeup there.

The series has never cared for consistency having characters close up gaps, but I honestly have never seen anyone else suggest that Piccolo is stronger than Goku at this point.

And really if Piccolo was different than Daimo then he couldn't merge with god? From what we've been shown any namekian can merge with any namekian. (Certainly having Nail inside him after he assimilated has to make him different to Daimo even if the Piccolo personality is the dominant one)

In Story its been stated that he's the reincarnation yet not the same person. Are you saying Uub is no different to Kid Buu since he is also a reincarnation?

[Koitsukai]

1) SS4 Gogeta, how does he rank in the ToP? does he make it into the top 5? top 10? who is he comparable with?

2) SS4 Gogeta with UI, who can he take from DBS?

vs SSB Gogeta
vs Angel Moro
vs Granola
vs Powered up Gas
vs Beerus

3) what if it's Completed UI GT Gogeta against the same guys?


4) GT Shadow Dragon (the first one, the filth dragon)
Who's the strongest character he can take from DBZ?
-and from DBS?

5) GT Shadow Dragon (the earth dragon, the one that absorbed Pan, but no Pan now)
Who's the strongest from DBZ and DBS that he can take?

6) Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito(it's forever) after their fight on Earth. How do they do on Namek? no SS, only KK.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

Tiencha from Budokai 2 vs EX Gogeta from Dragon Ball Fusions (Saiyan arc Goku and Vegeta fused together)

Prillin vs Kallohan from Dragon Ball Fusions (Piccolo and adult Gohan fused together)

Cellza vs Janembuu from Dragon Ball Fusions (Janemba and Pure Boo fused together)

And last, but certainly not least:

Whirus from Dragon Ball Fusions (Beerus and Whis fused together) vs the five-way fusion of Goku, Vegeta, adult Gohan, DBS Future Trunks and DBS Broly)

[klausfelix]

Something just feels wrong about this. I know, based on statements from VegettoEX and Savage68 in my other thread, that most of the 'inner circle' of this board just doesn't care about versus topics, but just because you don't care about them, is that really a reason to penalize those of us who do enjoy them.

It is a valid discussion from an in-universe prespective.Restricting it to one thread reduces visibility and makes it more challanging to participate in an on-going discussion.

I could see the potential for several 'debates' to be stepping on eachother in the thread, and for that reason see it as being unlikely that anyone will comply.

Of course, you could always just strictly enforce it and punish those who do not comply, but in that sense rather than "fixing" something, you're just strangling an entire element of your user base to death.

Furthermore, a huge chunk of the topics you cited were all made by that Kirby456 fellow, or whatever the random numbers after his name area questionable user who's already been warned by the admin to knock it off.

I know you are not really asking for our opinons on the matter, but I feel it's important. Not every Versus Topic discussion is by a bunch of immature people.

[TobyS]

Something just feels wrong about this. I know, based on statements from VegettoEX and Savage68 in my other thread, that most of the 'inner circle' of this board just doesn't care about versus topics, but just because you don't care about them, is that really a reason to penalize those of us who do enjoy them.

It is a valid discussion from an in-universe prespective.Restricting it to one thread reduces visibility and makes it more challanging to participate in an on-going discussion.

I could see the potential for several 'debates' to be stepping on eachother in the thread, and for that reason see it as being unlikely that anyone will comply.

Of course, you could always just strictly enforce it and punish those who do not comply, but in that sense rather than "fixing" something, you're just strangling an entire element of your user base to death.

Furthermore, a huge chunk of the topics you cited were all made by that Kirby456 fellow, or whatever the random numbers after his name area questionable user who's already been warned by the admin to knock it off.

I know you are not really asking for our opinons on the matter, but I feel it's important. Not every Versus Topic discussion is by a bunch of immature people.

It's half that most versus discussion is low value by stupid people but it's also that it would just shit up the entire subforum there are too many combinations and conditions it absolutlely makes sense.

Yeah it sucks when people dont bite and discuss your matchups happens to me all the time. But it'd also just fall of the front page and be missed if they were seperate too.

[TobyS]

The match up in the latest SDBH issue that Jiren interrupted.

Yamcha (lets say Moro arc abouts)

Vs

Spocovitch, Yamu, Yakon, Jiece Recoome, Guldo, Wings, Angila and Zeun.

Yamcha seemed to think he was going to lose but also thought he could take some of them out implicitly.

Personally I think by scaling he would slaughter everyone there except maybe Yamu who might be final form freeza level going by some fan theories.

What do y'all think. Annoyingly Jiren nukes them all, avoiding getting a feat for super era humans versus Z villians but alas.

[MrGohanks]

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

Probably base form Freeza or Broly

[Thani]

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

Weakest, you say? Probably Bergamo and current FF Freeza. Old Moro too, if he can use a planet's life force, like he did with Vegeta.

1) SS4 Gogeta, how does he rank in the ToP? does he make it into the top 5? top 10? who is he comparable with?

2) SS4 Gogeta with UI, who can he take from DBS?

vs SSB Gogeta
vs Angel Moro
vs Granola
vs Powered up Gas
vs Beerus

3) what if it's Completed UI GT Gogeta against the same guys?


4) GT Shadow Dragon (the first one, the filth dragon)
Who's the strongest character he can take from DBZ?
-and from DBS?

5) GT Shadow Dragon (the earth dragon, the one that absorbed Pan, but no Pan now)
Who's the strongest from DBZ and DBS that he can take?

6) Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito(it's forever) after their fight on Earth. How do they do on Namek? no SS, only KK.

1) I personally have SS4 Gogeta as considerably stronger than SSB Goku/Vegeta, enough to challenge Beerus legitimately in BoG, but not enough to get anywhere close to winning before defusing.
Basically it's
SS4 - Slightly weaker than SSG
SFPSS4 - Slightly weaker than SSB

So this Gogeta would be weaker than Super's fusion. Which would still be enough to wreak havoc against most Super characters, but not enough to actually defeat the likes of Jiren or Gods of Destruction.

2) That's just SS4 Gogeta with UI, giving him an edge in combat. Not enough to take on any of these guys. Heck, not even Jiren nor Broly.j

3) GT Gogeta with Perfected UI would be something else. Hypothetically speaking, he should crush everyone of those listed.

6) By power level alone, this Vegito would be almost on the level of SS Goku. A simple kaioken should make him able to crush the androids, and it only gets worse as he uses greater levels of it.

Narratively though, it would be enough to force Freeza to get serious, but he would still lose without turning into a Super Saiyan.

4 and 5) No idea, but Nuova being equal to SS4 would put him as slightly weaker than SSG Goku to me. So the rest are weaker still.

[TobyS]

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

Hmm manga wise maaaybe piccolo?
Gohan from the top
17 maybe altho it's more ambiguous in the manga.
Maaaybe kale.
Kefla
Toppo
Base psudeo oozaru Broly couldn't beat god but that's a god from several arcs ago.

It's an awkward tier where most people are above or below it.

[Makaioshin]

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

Sorbet if he gets a clean shot.

[Koitsukai]

The match up in the latest SDBH issue that Jiren interrupted.

Yamcha (lets say Moro arc abouts)

Vs

Spocovitch, Yamu, Yakon, Jiece Recoome, Guldo, Wings, Angila and Zeun.

Yamcha seemed to think he was going to lose but also thought he could take some of them out implicitly.

Personally I think by scaling he would slaughter everyone there except maybe Yamu who might be final form freeza level going by some fan theories.

What do y'all think. Annoyingly Jiren nukes them all, avoiding getting a feat for super era humans versus Z villians but alas.

I don't think Yamcha can take so many people on his own. I'm sure Jeece and Recoome aren't a problem, Spopovich and Yamu are even weaker. With no type of ki control he was holding back and still not destroying Videl, Yamu might be a bit stronger, nothing to worry about if you are Yamcha.
Gurdo has some funny techniques and could be a valuable ally, giving good support.
Yakon is the strongest, base Goku struggled a bit, and if he sucks the light off, Yamcha might be fucked.
I reckon he might beat everybody on his own except Yakon, but everybody seems way too much, specially with Gurdo fucking with time and paralizing him.
The other three I don't know who they are.

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

It's gotta be between 18 (if she actually can pull it off) and Piccolo.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

The other three I don't know who they are.

they're part of Lord Slugg's mazoku.

[Koitsukai]

The other three I don't know who they are.

they're part of Lord Slugg's mazoku.

Oh thanks. Yeah, I don't think they can do much on their own, but could be troublesome with the rest of the group.

[dragonball0900]

SSJ1 Cabba (ToP) vs Frost (ToP)

Frost got far stronger than before, to the point of being able of fighting equally against SSJ1 Vegeta, and to the point that he received a compliment from Hit, saying that he made him act a bit more seriously against him.

Cabba, on the other hand, was beaten by Monna in her giant form, and was said to be weaker than Caulifla, who even after getting stronger throughout the tournament, was still weaker than a tired Goku.

Who wins this match?

[ZombieVito]

SSJ1 Cabba (ToP) vs Frost (ToP)

Frost got far stronger than before, to the point of being able of fighting equally against SSJ1 Vegeta, and to the point that he received a compliment from Hit, saying that he made him act a bit more seriously against him.

Cabba, on the other hand, was beaten by Monna in her giant form, and was said to be weaker than Caulifla, who even after getting stronger throughout the tournament, was still weaker than a tired Goku.

Who wins this match?

Great match up. They both are on the same fence here, SS tier but weaker than SS Vegeta.

I will give it to Frost because he was stated to be a more skilled fighter than Cabba and his race is more durable than Saiyans.

[Krillin1994]

SSJ1 Cabba (ToP) vs Frost (ToP)

Frost got far stronger than before, to the point of being able of fighting equally against SSJ1 Vegeta, and to the point that he received a compliment from Hit, saying that he made him act a bit more seriously against him.

Cabba, on the other hand, was beaten by Monna in her giant form, and was said to be weaker than Caulifla, who even after getting stronger throughout the tournament, was still weaker than a tired Goku.

Who wins this match?

Great match up. They both are on the same fence here, SS tier but weaker than SS Vegeta.

I will give it to Frost because he was stated to be a more skilled fighter than Cabba and his race is more durable than Saiyans.

I would've thought that Cabba should be a more skilled fighter than Frost, since he was an elite fighter for the Saiyan army. Whereas Frost didn't really seem much of a fighter (relying on trickery in the U6 Tournament). Obvioulsy he improved a lot being on the run in the build up to the ToP. But I don't think he had the same sort of potential for growth that Frieza did with a few months of training.

Cabba on the other hand if having to face Frost would undoubtedly get fuelled by rage for being deceived by Frost and working for him under false pretenses before. Which even in his SSJ1 form I think would push his strentgh up enough to beat him.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Super Buu vs SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, SS2 Gohan (post Z-sword, pre-potential unlock), SS Goten, SS Trunks, and Shin doing something in the background I dunno.
(If they win, who tilts the scale? is it the kids? without them they cannot win?, is it Gohan? are the kids overkill?)

Buuhan vs SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, SS3 Gotenks.

If SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta aren't doing anything to Boo, I don't think throwing all of these weaker guys can do much of anything unless they buy time for Goku to do the fusion dance with Vegeta or Gohan.

Gohan-Boo is like, at least twice as strong as Gotenks. Goku and Vegeta can't help him here. Not even sure if Gotenks can even buy time for Gogeta to show up since I'm not sure if Gogeta can beat Gohan-Boo.

1) SS4 Gogeta, how does he rank in the ToP? does he make it into the top 5? top 10? who is he comparable with?

2) SS4 Gogeta with UI, who can he take from DBS?

vs SSB Gogeta
vs Angel Moro
vs Granola
vs Powered up Gas
vs Beerus

3) what if it's Completed UI GT Gogeta against the same guys?


4) GT Shadow Dragon (the first one, the filth dragon)
Who's the strongest character he can take from DBZ?
-and from DBS?

5) GT Shadow Dragon (the earth dragon, the one that absorbed Pan, but no Pan now)
Who's the strongest from DBZ and DBS that he can take?

6) Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito(it's forever) after their fight on Earth. How do they do on Namek? no SS, only KK.

1) I have always liked the idea that SSJ4 Gogeta is somewhat comparable to BoGs SSJG Goku. This makes him fairly irrelevant for the strongest members of the ToP, but I think he'll clear the weaker universes. Manga-wise he's probably clearing all universes besides U7, U11 and U6 minus Hit. Not sure how he fares in the anime though, he can beat U9 and some random folks here and there, but he'll fare far worse than in the manga.

2) Maybe Blue Gogeta? Angel Moro too has UI so it kinda nullifies Gogeta's own UI.

3) I think he'll lose to Granolah or Gas. Right now I'm thinking they're above Moro by a unquantifiable amount.

4) I don't remember how Goku and Pan beat him, but I remember he was fairly weak without his polution powers. Without them he's Saiyan or Freeza Saga level fodder, but with it he can probably take Super Vegetto and DBS characters below him like U9, U7 humans etc.

5) I remember that little weasel wasn't instantly pulverized by Goku's punches, so I'll say he's above GT Base Goku. So he goes about as far as 2-Star Dragon did with polution powers.

6) Going by both the official AxB multiplier and how I have Base Vegetto 10,000x Base Goku in the Boo Saga, Base Vegetto ends up around 100% Freeza's power. He's clearing without Kaio-Ken.

Who do you guys think is currently the weakest character in the series that could beat Battle of Gods SSG Goku?

Anime-wise? Probably Cabba in his normal form or Botamo.

Manga-wise, Android 18. Or Yamcha if I'm feeling bad for the guy.