Asian characters in Dragon Ball

[Aim]

I guess one big issue I take with your post, OP, is that you attempt explain a whole bunch of things... but don't really relate a whole lot (any?) of it back to your thesis(?) in the subject line. Some of the things that SOUND like you're going to relate back... well, you never actually do, so I'm not entirely sure what your point was in bringing them up.

Some points and further questions of my own (both for the OP and other folks):

• Yes, a whole lot of characters are pretty clearly "coded" as representing a certain ethnicity/race/region/etc.
• A significant issue with (let's say) Americans who might cling to the "Goku's an ALIEN!" angle is... uhh... well, obviously general white ignorance/stubbornness, but also the initial failed attempt with the first TV series and jump ahead to Z here: Goku has ALWAYS been an alien to the vast majority of these folks.
• I think if you're going to bring up "westerners" "claiming" Goku as white (?), you can't / shouldn't stop here. The black community has widely adopted Piccolo, and I think that's actually/probably the more interesting and specific angle. There's been a fair bit written on this, and I want to read more.
• I see this constantly, but there's really zero evidence I'm aware of connecting Tenshinhan to Erlang. They have, like, literally nothing in common beyond a third eye, which traces back and has plenty of implications long before and separate from Erlang. (They don't share a common attitude, weapon, family history, interactions with Goku/Wukong beyond "fight", etc.) By the time Toriyama gets to Tenshinhan in the manga, there's naaaada being taken from JttW anymore (the anime, of course, is still incorporating plenty of filler yanking from JttW, but that's neither here nor there). I just don't see it. It feels like someone who didn't actually read JttW or any mythology did a cursory search, found a character with a third eye, rolled with it, no-one fact checked it, and now it's up there with "Toriyama wanted to end with Freeza."

I think in general the black community has a lot of their cultural qualities in dragon ball communities. Something I’ve noticed at least. It’s kind of one of the defining aspects of the anime community in general.

[Peach]

They're pretty much all Asian.

Except some of the Red Ribbon Army commanders, non-human characters, the blonde students at Gohan's school, Upa & Bora, and MAYBE Bulma's mom.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think in general the black community has a lot of their cultural qualities in dragon ball communities. Something I’ve noticed at least. It’s kind of one of the defining aspects of the anime community in general.

Care to elaborate?

[dva_raza]

They aren't supposed to actually *be* White people within the story (at least for Sailor Moon), but they are drawn as White people. Of course everything else about them might be Japanese.

Unlike in DB, where most of the main characters are drawn in the Asian style.

Never thought about any of this before but what do you mean? What's the difference between DB and sailor moon?

[MyVisionity]

They aren't supposed to actually *be* White people within the story (at least for Sailor Moon), but they are drawn as White people. Of course everything else about them might be Japanese.

Unlike in DB, where most of the main characters are drawn in the Asian style.

Never thought about any of this before but what do you mean? What's the difference between DB and sailor moon?

I mean that the manner and style in which the characters are drawn are different. In DB, most of the main characters are drawn with the physical appearance of Asians (broadly speaking), whereas in Sailor Moon, Naruto and other series the characters are drawn with White features or ambiguous features. Like Tsukino Usagi and Aino Minako in SM versus Goku/Yamcha/Chichi in DB. One style is more clearly Asian, while the other is not.

[dva_raza]

n DB, most of the main characters are drawn with the physical appearance of Asians (broadly speaking), whereas in Sailor Moon, Naruto and other series the characters are drawn with White features or ambiguous features.

..Still unclear about what's the distinction you're making.
What is exactly the "physical appearance of Asians" you see in DB's drawings that you don't see in sailor moon, is basically what I was asking

[Soppa Saia People]

dude they just have long legs, which every shoujo series since the 70s have had...

[MasenkoHA]

And again stating characters who are inexplicably Japanese are drawn white is well it sure is something.

[MyVisionity]

n DB, most of the main characters are drawn with the physical appearance of Asians (broadly speaking), whereas in Sailor Moon, Naruto and other series the characters are drawn with White features or ambiguous features.

..Still unclear about what's the distinction you're making.
What is exactly the "physical appearance of Asians" you see in DB's drawings that you don't see in sailor moon, is basically what I was asking

The DB characters and their dark/black hair color, particular hairstyles, and skin tones. It's mostly drawn in an Asian style commonly depicted in manga. As opposed to the blonde hair, blue eyes, and various other Caucasian features you see in other manga/anime, which is also common.

And again stating characters who are inexplicably Japanese are drawn white is well it sure is something.

The characters are both inextricably Japanese and drawn White.

[MasenkoHA]

n DB, most of the main characters are drawn with the physical appearance of Asians (broadly speaking), whereas in Sailor Moon, Naruto and other series the characters are drawn with White features or ambiguous features.

..Still unclear about what's the distinction you're making.
What is exactly the "physical appearance of Asians" you see in DB's drawings that you don't see in sailor moon, is basically what I was asking

The DB characters and their dark/black hair color, particular hairstyles, and skin tones. It's mostly drawn in an Asian style commonly depicted in manga. As opposed to the blonde hair, blue eyes, and various other Caucasian features you see in other manga/anime, which is also common.

They also have characters with pink hair and blue hair and green hair and eyes far wider than any human including a white person on cocaine has. It's just a stylistic decision. They're not caucasian features no matter how bad you want to pretend they are.

[MyVisionity]

They also have characters with pink hair and blue hair and green hair and eyes far wider than any human including a white person on cocaine has. It's just a stylistic decision. They're not caucasian features no matter how bad you want to pretend they are.

Caucasian features are Caucasian features, no matter what. That doesn't change just because you have other characters with pink and green hair, or because of the author's stylistic intent.

And given the history of Western influence in Japan, I highly doubt it was ever *just* a stylistic decision.

[MasenkoHA]

They also have characters with pink hair and blue hair and green hair and eyes far wider than any human including a white person on cocaine has. It's just a stylistic decision. They're not caucasian features no matter how bad you want to pretend they are.

Caucasian features are Caucasian features, no matter what. That doesn't change just because you have other characters with pink and green hair, or because of the author's stylistic intent.

What white person do you know has natural blue hair?!?!? What white person do you know has eyes as big as any anime character? They're not causasian features just because you want to say they are.

[MyVisionity]

What white person do you know has natural blue hair?!?!?

I wasn't referring to the characters with blue or pink hair, just characters like Usagi and Naruto with blatant Caucasian features. Although I'm sure you could make the argument for those others also being drawn White.

They're not causasian features just because you want to say they are.

No, they're Caucasian features because they're Caucasian features. That has nothing to do with anyone's personal interpretation. It just is, as can be clearly observed.

[Soppa Saia People]

if you wanna make the argument for takeuchi designing usagi as white because of her hair, takeuchi both wanted and did draw her often with both silver and pink hair, so that's a moot point.

[coeper2000]

the word saiyan also came from the word asian , goku has always been a asian superhero with a tail , he is based on monkey king who is also asian

Best comment ever. It's incorrect, but this is still great lol

I think that it's reasonable to assume that a manga/anime that came from Japan--which is overwhelmingly Asian (98% Japanese, mind you)--intended to have its main protagonists resemble Japanese people. Otherwise, you know, the clothing and architecture would suggest the same.

But who has a problem with this? I understand children who fantasy cast people that they're used to, but is anyone really raising a big stink over this

white people stop dreaming , only superman is white

Only Superman is white? I don't think that's quite correct either...

yamcha is asian , looks japanese , yamcha does not look any different than all saiyans do they look like yamcha the human version

krillin is also asian with slanted eyes

cabba is asian with slanted eyes too

goten is asian

master roshi is asian too

tien , chaio zu are also asian

chi chi is asian

yajirobe is also asian

mercenary tao is asian too

vegeta is asian

gohan asian

pan asian

piccolo is green

uub is black

bulma is white

[coeper2000]

Yes, stories do evolve. In this case, the Asian human boy Son Goku turned out to be an Asian looking alien who came from a homogenous alien race based on Asians.

Except we can't tell if he looks Asian due to the style of the art.

The reason why you're so adamant on Saiyans being their own ethnicity is because that means there's some hope that Goku could be white in your eyes.

Except I don't think Goku looks white.

Also, that doesn't even make sense. Why the hell would I want Goku to be white?

You may not be explicitly saying it but isn't it kind of obvious that's the reason? By implying that Saiyans should be their own ethnicity

It's not. You're just projecting. Or you're trying to vilify me in order to have some sense of moral superiority over me.

I meant what I said. Goku and the Saiyans look like their own ethnicity.

We can tell that Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan are supposed to be Asians and the same applies to Goku, regardless of him being an alien or human. He doesn't look Asian to you? Doesn't matter, everything points to him being an Asian character.

Why wouldn't you want him to be white? White people love to claim Asian anime/cartoon characters as their own. As long as the character looks white to them, they completely ignore everything else about the character. I assumed that was the case here since you seem to think Saiyans look like their own ethnicity and based on your "casting choices" irl. If that wasn't the case here, then my apologies.

----

yamcha is like the human version of goku , yamcha is straight up asian like krillin and tien or master roshi , vegeta , cabba , goku , raditz , goten . broly , yajirobi , chaizu , mercernary tao , japanese or any asian ,identify with goku as being an asian super hero , japanese like goku so much , they will call him in a japanese war lol

goku looks like yamcha , and is clearly asian ,

when i was a kid watching dragon ball , all i had to write on google was anime asian kid with monkey tailand and then goku shows up

now the saiyan thing became a thing only because goku power started to increase in a level where he could not be human , but in dragon ball they just saw him as a little asian kid with a tail and all saiyans have black hair and olive skin like most asian japanese do , japanese have also

bigger eyes than chinese do , look at actors like toma ikuta , he is the perfect example on what a saiyan should look like japanese and asian
-
superman is white - and uub is black

[Vijay]

Goku and the other Saiyans can't be Asians because they come from a different planet with different continents. However, yeah, it makes sense for Goku to be coded as East Asian.
Aslo, are there really people who actually say shit like "Goku is a white person"?

Your way of growing-up determines who you'll eventually be in lots of cases.

Goku praying in early DB, using kungfu etc just implies he may have been taught & eventually followed Grandpa Gohan's Asian/Chinese lifestyle considerin how Grandpa Gohan was even more traditional in terms of costume etc

Just sayin

[coeper2000]

Goku and the other Saiyans can't be Asians because they come from a different planet with different continents. However, yeah, it makes sense for Goku to be coded as East Asian.
Aslo, are there really people who actually say shit like "Goku is a white person"?

Your way of growing-up determines who you'll eventually be in lots of cases.

Goku praying in early DB, using kungfu etc just implies he may have been taught & eventually followed Grandpa Gohan's Asian/Chinese lifestyle considerin how Grandpa Gohan was even more traditional in terms of costume etc

Just sayin

goku looks japanese like ikuta toma

no goku is based on monkey king - asian , hes not based on any white person and never will be , goku is asian and has asian culture , clothing , culture , fighting and behaves like asian martial artist

[PurestEvil]

Goku and the other Saiyans can't be Asians because they come from a different planet with different continents. However, yeah, it makes sense for Goku to be coded as East Asian.
Aslo, are there really people who actually say shit like "Goku is a white person"?

Your way of growing-up determines who you'll eventually be in lots of cases.

Goku praying in early DB, using kungfu etc just implies he may have been taught & eventually followed Grandpa Gohan's Asian/Chinese lifestyle considerin how Grandpa Gohan was even more traditional in terms of costume etc

Just sayin

no goku is based on monkey king - asian , hes not based on any white person and never will be , goku is asian and has asian culture , clothing , culture , fighting and behaves like asian martial artist

Vijay was not saying Goku isn't Asian; they were actually arguing that he IS Asian.
You are arguing with someone who agrees with you...

[coeper2000]

Why do Westerners love to consume Asian media like Dragon Ball but cannot accept the fact that their childhood favorites such as Son Goku and his friends are Asians? It is obviously a huge problem in anime in general and even in Avatar the Last Airbender.

There is absolutely nothing in or outside the story which indicates that Son Goku is supposed to be anything other than an Asian character. In the following I will talk about some of the cultural aspects of Dragon Ball. References are primarily from Derek Padula and his Dragon Ball Culture Volume 2 book, Kanzenshuu and Rachel “TripleRach” Oliver’s translations of the Daizenshuu books. By the way, I am fully aware that South Asians and Central Asians are Asians too. Throughout this post however, when I refer to Asians, I will only be referring to the predominantly China-influenced countries (China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Taiwan, Vietnam) and South East Asia.

Basis for Dragon Ball:
Prior to creating Dragon Ball, Toriyama went on a working vacation to China. He was a huge fan of Hong Kong kung fu films as well as Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. Based on that, he decided to write a kung fu manga that combined martial arts with a Chinese setting. For his new manga, Toriyama used the most well-known Chinese piece of literature as basis for the story, Journey to the West and thus, Dragon Ball was born. This means that the story was written by a Japanese person to a Japanese audience, based on a Chinese story and setting, with huge inspiration from Hong Kong kung fu movies, Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan.

Son Goku:
Obviously since Sun Wukong aka the (Chinese) Monkey King was the main character of Journey to the West, Son Goku was created as a Sun Wukong inspired human boy. Son Goku has a monkey tail, the flying cloud (Kintuon) and staff (Nyoibo) which are some of the elements that Sun Wukong is known for. Furthermore, Son Goku is the Japanese translation of the name Sun Wukong. Obviously since Son Goku is an manga character, real-life characters will never be able to look exactly like him or any other character for that matter. That said, he is a Chinese inspired character who lives in a Chinese inspired setting, has a Chinese inspired home, wears Chinese inspired clothing, fights with Chinese style martial. Moreover, he has black hair, black eyes and depending on which media, he might either have light, “yellow” or tanned skin. In the original manga, in DBGT, in DBS manga and anime, and basically every time Toriyama draws him, he has “yellow” or tanned skin. In Z, he is light skinned. All these things taken into consideration, he is Asian. Toriyama once stated that if Dragon Ball were to be made into live action, his ideal actor to portray Son Goku would be Jackie Chan, an Asian man. Fast forward and instead, Hollywood decided to cast a whitewashed Chadwin Goku. People who cannot accept Son Goku as Asian use the following three arguments which I will be addressing now:

1) He has light skin in Z.
First of all, pale skin is the beauty standard in Asia. It has been for thousands of years. Tan skin back then was associated with lower class field work which indicated that you were poor. Pale skin on the other hand was associated with wealth and social prestige. Since you were wealthy, you did not have to work outside. According to western media oulets (surprise) Asians wanting to have pale skin is because of their desire to look more European. That is absolutely NOT true and just pure BS. As previously mentioned, the beauty standard in Asia is to be pale and therefore, you see a lot of light skinned Asians in East/SE Asia. Sure, a lot of people there use skin whitening products but even without those products, East Asians are naturally pale if they just avoid the sun. This is the complete opposite in the west where everybody loves to get a tan. Just like the white race who have people who tan really fast, they also have people who have a hard time getting a tan. This applies to Asians as well. A lot of light skinned Asians get sunburnt easily instead of getting a tan. Personally speaking, I have Asian friends who are light skinned who just cannot get a tan, regardless of how much they are in the sun.

2) He has big eyes.
Alright, so let me get this straight. Every character in Dragon Ball who has big eyes is naturally white while the ones with small eyes are Asians? No. Eyes mostly represent the personality of the character in Dragon Ball (and anime in general). Big eyes indicate that they could have joyful, innocent, positive or funny personalities. Look at Goku, Gohan, Krillin, Yamcha, Bulma. Then let us compare with the people who have smaller eyes. Vegeta, Tenshinhan, Android 18, Piccolo. See how they are more serious types? So yeah, eye shape in Dragon Ball has nothing to do race but rather personality. Even if eyes were indeed an indicator for race, when have you ever seen a white person with eyes as huge as Son Goku? If you think every Asian person has monolids or small, slanted eyes, please widen your horizon. There are a lot of East/SE Asians with big eyes and double eyelids, myself included.

3) Son Goku is an alien.
Yes, indeed he is. Now let us look back. Prior to becoming an alien, he was an Asian (looking and inspired) kid with a monkey tail. It took Toriyama 17 volumes before he decided to make him an alien. Does this mean that Son Goku went from being an Asian looking guy to an alien looking guy, or, according to some people, a white person? No, not at all. When Son Goku was established as a Saiyan, Toriyama decided to create the Saiyan race as an extension of how Son Goku looked. Therefore, by default the entire Saiyan race is based on Asians. In Daizenshuu 4, Toriyama explicitly referred to pure blooded Saiyans as having “black eyes, black hair and yellow skin”. Humans from Earth on the other hand were referred to as having “black, brown, blonde and multiple hair colors. Black, brown, green, blue eyes and multiple eye colors. White skinned, brown skinned, yellow skinned etc”. This proves that the Saiyan race is a homogenous group (much like Japan, Korea and China). Name one race in the world that is referred to as black haired, black eyed and yellow skinned. Yes, East/SE Asians. Now, Asians do not really have YELLOW skin but that is how Asians are described. Vegeta is also based on real life Japanese actor Seiji Miyaguchi. If Superman is white, then Goku is Asian.

The Dragon World:
The Dragon World is the setting they live in. Much like the real world, they have the Eastern and Western parts of the world. There is the Western world (which includes West City) where Bulma is from. English alphabet, people have different hair and eye colors, the clothing, surroundings and food shows how the Western Dragon World reflects the west in our world. Like Asia, Dragon Ball has the Eastern Dragon Ball world. The very first time we meet Son Goku, he lives on Mount Paozu. The surrounding mountains were drawn based on real-life Chinese mountains. The setting shows how everything is East Asian (Chinese) inspired. The homes (including Goku’s own home), the food (how they use chopsticks, dumplings, rice etc.), surroundings, and the clothing (grandpa Gohan, Gohan, Chichi, Son Goku’s own clothes which resembles the kung fu outfits Jackie Chan wore during his younger days in films depicting the Chinese Ming and Qing dynasties). The ki aura and blasts we are all aware of, are based on Chinese Taoist concept as well.

Characters in the Dragon World:
Like I said, we have the East and the West. Majority of the characters we see in the East are black haired, black eyed and either brown, tanned, yellow or light skinned. Son Goku, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Krillin, Yamcha, Yajirobe are all East Asians from the Eastern world, while characters like Bulma, Videl (black hair but blue eyes) Launch, Android 17, 18 are white characters. We also have Native Americans (Bora and Upa), South Asians (Nam and Oob), black people (Black from Red Ribbon Army), Inuits, Australians, Middle Easterns and more that are based on real life ethnicities. Krillin is based on shaolin monks, Chaozu is based on Chinese Hopping Vampires, Jiangshi, and Son Goku on the Monkey King. Shenlong (Shenron) is an Asian dragon as well, not an European dragon. His name literally means God Dragon and Long means dragon in Chinese.

So yeah, what's your view on this whole thing? Kamehameha and kamsahamnida (thank you in Korean).

master roshi is also asian

chi chi is asian too

mercenary tao is asian too

cabba is asian

goku asian

vegeta asian

raditz asian

bardock asian

gine asian

caulifa asian

goten asian

gohan asian

master shen is asian too and many more lol