The lack of new transformations in DBS is surprising

[Xeno Goku Black]

To me it really is. Everyone knows that the transformations sell. Super Dragon Ball Heroes has done very well off of it.

And considering that the longer that the original Dragon Ball manga went on the more new transformations were popping up at increased rate and that after only introducing Super Saiyan God in one more to then introduce yet another in the very next movie just a couple years later...yeah I really did think that DBS was going to milk that dry.

But they haven't really have they? If you just look at the main characters and take into account the series starting from the Universe 6 saga to now and with the movies included, that's a 7 year period. There hasn't been that many at all.

Goku has the Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken (hardly a transformation at that) and then Ultra Instinct Sign and Ultra Instinct of which those two are part of a package.

Vegeta has only had Super Saiyan Blue Evolution and Ultra Ego. Just two.

Gohan who was the next main character didn't have at all. He's still sporting his Ultimate form.

Then when it comes to the villains Frieza transformed three times. Cell twice. Buu was ridiculous he had over over a half dozen forms.

In Super however, Frieza has kept that same Golden transformation for seven years now. Hit never transformed and neither did Jiren. Goku Black had one transformation. Moro had two. Broly for the most part kept all the transformations that he originally had.

I'd say amongst the main heroes and villains the series has been less transformation heavy than Dragon Ball Z to be honest.

Even more surprising still is that Super Saiyan Blue after 7 years of being introduced is still very relevant in the action. It's never gonna finish the job now but it has stayed relevant from fighting Golden Frieza, through to Hit, Goku Black, Jiren, Broly and Gas.

How many other transformations stayed relevant for that long? Not many.

I was half expecting Goku to get a new form in every arc. For the villains to get three or four transformations a piece. It never happened.

[Grimlock]

Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Ultra Instinct count as two transformations, just as False Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan do.

Similarly, Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rosé may count as two transformations, they are "the same", but they're different at the same time. Goku Black displays both. Merged Zamasu also has a transformation (two, if we are technical about it).

For some reason, "God of Destruction" (which should've been just a title) was made into a transformation for Toppo.

Rage is a separated transformation for Broly, as well as Super Saiyan Rage for Trunks. Frost also had two transformations (three if you count "Full Power").

There may not have been that many transformations the way you mean it (two, three, four for a character), but it certainly introduced a lot. So I wouldn't say there's a lack of it.

[Xeno Goku Black]

I didn't think of Goku Black's Super Saiyan from the manga, probably didn't cross my mind as it's not a new transformation. Frost having the multiple transformations is fine because like Caulifla turning Super Saiyan 1 and 2 it's neither new or unexpected so they wouldn't count.

One transformation for Trunks in his own arc isn't bad at all.

Yes Broly had his additional Wrathful state but otherwise his main transformation was the one he's famous for having. They didn't include that and then go even further still.

Just between the Cell and Buu arcs the Saiyan's got Super Saiyan Grade 2, Super Saiyan Grade 3, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Ultimate form, Fusion (not a transformation but another form).

Villain wise there was Imperfect Cell, Semi Perfect Cell, Perfect Cell, Majin Buu, Good Buu. Evil Buu, Super Buu, Super Buu with Gotenks, Super Buu with Gohan, Kid Buu and Buff Buu.

Kinda ridiculous in a way. Then you had Jiren and he doesn't transform at all. By the end of the anime at least between Vegeta and Gohan there was one new transformation between them.

[nineko]

Since Super Sonic was inspired by the super saiyan transformation, I wonder if they're ever going to do it the other way around, and have a "hyper saiyan" transformation inspired by Hyper Sonic. They can even call it "super saiyan rainbow" to keep up with the color (nick)naming scheme.

[Shorty GZ2]

Hyper Sonic and the Super Emeralds have been exiled from continuity, sadly

[Geraldo]

We don't need more transformations.

[Skar]

And considering that the longer that the original Dragon Ball manga went on the more new transformations were popping up at increased rate and that after only introducing Super Saiyan God in one more to then introduce yet another in the very next movie just a couple years later...yeah I really did think that DBS was going to milk that dry.

They did milk it dry in a way since there are only so many transformations with different hair styles or colors to come up with. Goku has seven transformations and five different hair colors not including Oozaru. Now that UE is purple, the only colors left to use are brown and orange which don't seem likely since they might look too similar to existing forms.

[Mr Baggins]

Yeah, we've pretty much explored the visible spectrum. We're currently at yellow, red, blue, green, pink, purple, and gray/white. Arguably black too if you wanna count UI Sign or Gohan's Ultimate state, but I'm pretty sure that's just their natural hair color.

Now I'm not especially bothered by that as some others have been, and from an aesthetic standpoint, I do prefer it over just giving them bigger hair. But at this juncture, I think it's probably time to stop.

[Koitsukai]

I've ready many times people complaining about DBS having way too many forms, of literally every single primary colour, and rightfully so. We have green, blue, dark blue, red, silver, grey, purple, pink, we have humanoid ozaru, we even have blue+yellow for Trunks, Toppo went GoD, there might be something more to UI as well. Way too many for my taste or for what a story actually needs.
DBS is literally a transformation bargain sale, so reading there's a lack of it is kinda baffling.

Even enemies have their share of forms, Freeza unlocked his own SS. Moro has like 4 different designs, the Heatas can all transform as well. Even Buu transformed into Dai Kaioshin.

DBZ had 4 forms, DBS has over 10 forms lol.

[Xeno Goku Black]

DBS is literally a transformation bargain sale, so reading there's a lack of it is kinda baffling.

It really isn't. Again you can't include the likes of Battle of Gods and Resurrection F as they were DBZ products first. So red and blue haired Saiyans and gold skinned Frieza are out.

So from the Universe 6 arc through to the end of the anime, the manga that followed, Broly and what we know of Super Hero, an entire seven years of content, main character Goku had a mere three transformations (Blue Kaioken being a transformation is loose at that), Vegeta had just two and Trunks had one. None for Gohan or Frieza.

Meanwhile Goku obtained Super Saiyan in the anime in 1991 and by 1994, he'd been shown to also have Super Saiyan Grade 2, Grade 3, Super Saiyan Kaioken, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3. Twice as many forms in about half as many years.

Majin Buu had more forms on top of his initial one, than Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu, Merged Zamasu, Dyspo, Top and Jiren put together.

[Grimlock]

Kaio-Ken is not a transformation, it's a technique. So both Super Saiyan Kaio-Ken and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-Ken are not entirely transformations, only half of it.

Combining a transformation with a technique doesn't result in a new form. Or if it does, then you'd also have to count every single time Goku used Kamehameha while in any Super Saiyan form as a transformation. The same goes for Vegeta and his techniques, Trunks and his techniques and everyone else and their techniques.


Also, I'd argue that Super Buu with Gotenks absorbed and Super Buu with Ultimate Gohan absorbed are the same, I don't recall him changing appearances from one to another except for his clothes (changing clothes doesn't constitute a transformation in my book).

[Koitsukai]

DBS is literally a transformation bargain sale, so reading there's a lack of it is kinda baffling.

It really isn't. Again you can't include the likes of Battle of Gods and Resurrection F as they were DBZ products first. So red and blue haired Saiyans and gold skinned Frieza are out.

So from the Universe 6 arc through to the end of the anime, the manga that followed, Broly and what we know of Super Hero, an entire seven years of content, main character Goku had a mere three transformations (Blue Kaioken being a transformation is loose at that), Vegeta had just two and Trunks had one. None for Gohan or Frieza.

Meanwhile Goku obtained Super Saiyan in the anime in 1991 and by 1994, he'd been shown to also have Super Saiyan Grade 2, Grade 3, Super Saiyan Kaioken, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3. Twice as many forms in about half as many years.

Majin Buu had more forms on top of his initial one, than Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu, Merged Zamasu, Dyspo, Top and Jiren put together.

That's kind of an arbitrary line you are drawing there. Sure, the movies have DBZ stamped on them, but the forms were seen in DBS, those arcs were retold in DBS and are part of the DBS manga, not in DBZ or in the original manga. I don't remember Cell fighting off SSB Goku, or Buutenks losing to SSG. I do wonder how many people would say "uhmm yeah, Golden Freeza, that's from DBZ, no question about that". The god forms are DBS' thing, the blond forms are DBZ's thing.
Saying those are DBZ forms is quite disingenuous.

The grades aren't different forms either, they are tweaks of the regular SS form. Super Kaioken is not a form either, it's a technique and he does not use it except for one instance in his entire life and in filler material, so that's hardly something he has, not to mention Toriyama didn't write that.


DBZ: SS, SS2, SS3, Ultimate.
DBS: SSG, SSB, SS Rage, SS Rosé, Sign, UI, UE, Ikari, LSS.
If we are counting the grade forms from Z, then we should count SSBE and SSBKK as well.

Villains having or not having transformations means nothing, Zamasu, Hit and Jiren do not need to transform, there's nothing intrinsically wrong or right about that. It's actually a breath of fresh air, and original to not have people changing forms all the time, it means their designs don't need to be revamped or patched.
Meanwhile, Moro had his old self, his goatee version, his shorter goatee version, his FP version, his 7-3 iteration, his UI iteration and his Earth iteration. That's 7 forms, as many as Buu (Fat, Kid, Grey, Super, Buutenks, Buuhan, Buffed). Moro alone had as many forms as Cell and Freeza combined.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Saying those are DBZ forms is quite disingenuous.

Of course it isn't. The forms are obviously associated with Dragon Ball Super now and saw an alternate introduction in the show but factually they were introduced in a Dragon Ball Z product. Long before Super was even conceived.

For the sake of this thread I'm referring to transformations that were introduced specifically with Super. Which means starting with the Universe 6 Saga as the previous two sagas were adaptations of Dragon Ball Z movies.

The grades aren't different forms either, they are tweaks of the regular SS form. Super Kaioken is not a form either, it's a technique and he does not use it except for one instance in his entire life and in filler material, so that's hardly something he has, not to mention Toriyama didn't write that.

It's an extension of Super Saiyan as they were up to Super Saiyan 3. In universe technicalities aside it is another form. If Grade 2 doesn't count then Blue Evolution shouldn't count as it's almost the same thing. If Super Kaioken doesn't count then Blue Kaioken doesn't count meaning Goku only had two new forms.

Whether it's filler or not is beside the point here. I'm not referring to canon and non canon. Just transformations Z brand and Super brand.

DBZ: SS, SS2, SS3, Ultimate.
DBS: SSG, SSB, SS Rage, SS Rosé, Sign, UI, UE, Ikari, LSS.

That's not accurate though. Legendary Super Saiyan is a Dragon Ball Z form. It was introduced there. It wasn't newly designed for Super.

DBZ - KK, False SS, SS, SSG2, SSG3, LSS, SSKK, SS2, SS3, Ultimate, SSG, SSB
DBS - SSBKK SS Rage, Rose, Sign, Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego, Ikari

That's 12 for DBZ and 7 for DBS. However it's spread across more characters for Super as well. With Z Goku had 10 out those 12 forms. With Super only Trunks had Rage, only Goku Black had Rose, only Broly has Ikari, only Vegeta as Ego.

Fusion can also be thrown into the mix as that was also another "form".

Villains having or not having transformations means nothing, Zamasu, Hit and Jiren do not need to transform, there's nothing intrinsically wrong or right about that.

I didn't say they needed to but it does mean something for the sake of the thread. Just purely anime wise, Frieza, Cell and Buu all transformed a lot. Whereas Hit, Goku Black and Jiren had one transformation between them.

Meanwhile, Moro had his old self, his goatee version, his shorter goatee version, his FP version, his 7-3 iteration, his UI iteration and his Earth iteration. That's 7 forms, as many as Buu (Fat, Kid, Grey, Super, Buutenks, Buuhan, Buffed). Moro alone had as many forms as Cell and Freeza combined.

Those are not all forms. Those first four "versions" of Moro is literally just one form de-aging over time. I'm not counting 100% Frieza because he buffed up his muscles or Super Perfect Cell because he has sparks now. Moro has his true form, 7-3, Ultra Instinct and Earth so that's four like Frieza (in the Namek arc).

[Mac]

I mean, you can only have so many new forms when it's only Goku and Vegeta all the time.

[Dbzk1999]

Also, I'd argue that Super Buu with Gotenks absorbed and Super Buu with Ultimate Gohan absorbed are the same, I don't recall him changing appearances from one to another except for his clothes (changing clothes doesn't constitute a transformation in my book).

He gets an actual chin for one, his tentacle gets even longer, and his face as a whole looks more human shaped/defined. That’s the main differences from what I recall

[Cipher]

I lean more toward this thinking than I do the argument that Super has too many transformations.

Obviously, a lot have built up between it and the original run, such that we now have quite a roster for Goku to cycle through, and a literal rainbow of Saiyan forms.

But Super taken unto itself has been pretty conservative with them. Blue is developed over several arcs, and there's a lot more emphasis on iteration and improvement of transformations, as a kind of (DB-esque) martial-arts drama focus, which the original run only really does for a portion of the Cell arc.

Transformations are, contrary to (somewhat) popular belief, fun, but I think Super's been pretty good about not trotting them out all the time. Such that they remain fun when new ones do show up, like Ultra Instinct and Ego.

...Which are really about it, other than Blue variations, as far as big new flashy forms we've gotten since Super proper began.

[Grimlock]

This thread won't age well, will it? Movie 2 alone introduces two "and half" new forms. "And a half" refers to Ultimate, which is not a new transformation, but it is new for Piccolo.

Orange Piccolo and whatever it is called Gohan's transformation (I don't know where it is stated "Final Gohan") have just been added to the huge bunch. Naturally, I don't think it will stop there.

We don't need more transformations.

What? You want more transformations? Why, of course!

[Xeno Goku Black]

It's not surprising the movie added a new transformation, that was always going to happen. That Piccolo got one is surprising though.

But again no it's not really that many. Across 6 and a half years of original Dragon Ball Super material we got...

2 (3 if you count Kaio-ken Blue) new transformations for Goku.

2 new transformations for Vegeta.

1 new transformation for Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo, Broly and Frieza.

That ain't much.

[DBNamek]

It's not surprising the movie added a new transformation, that was always going to happen. That Piccolo got one is surprising though.

But again no it's not really that many. Across 6 and a half years of original Dragon Ball Super material we got...

2 (3 if you count Kaio-ken Blue) new transformations for Goku.

2 new transformations for Vegeta.

1 new transformation for Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo, Broly and Frieza.

That ain't much.

Why are you so obsessed with characters getting new forms

[WittyUsername]

There have been a lot of new transformations in DBS, especially compared to DBGT.

Spoiler:

The new movie even introduces a total of three forms.