Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Block88 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:43 am

Noah wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:40 am Sorry guys, but I believe this is where Dragon Ball met its path to become more like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokémon type of franchises.
Storytelling just doesn't matter anymore, they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

It all adds up to THIS!
FortuneSSJ wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:35 pm Looking to these spoilers just shows once again, how risky is having Toriyama writing everything he wants without a editor to tell him "No!"
But before thinking why Toriyama is guilty of all that, let's take a look on:

In 2013 we had the first DB movie after 17 years, that had indeed good storytelling and a bit of world building, but fans though it lacked action... What Toriyama did it? "Well, they want action let's bring back Freeza (again) with a new transformation (recolor) versus Goku and Vegeta with their new blue haired SSJ forms (another recolor)!" And I don't know why Toriyama thought this would be "fine" as in a interview after BoG he said Goku would take the path to only focus in his common SSJ form (putting aside SSJ2/3) that has inherited the power of SSJ God. But then we have Bandai, Shueisha and Toei that could have pressured him to design new shiny forms for the characters as ya already know: they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

Something that proves this thesis is that Toriyama didn't wanted to make anything related to Broly in his own story, but then we got Kale, which was not enough as they managed to pressure the man to write a movie about a retconned Broly and freaking Gogeta that he was never interested in the first place!

Not wanting to play the devil advocate, but Toriyama is not the only villain in this story, this franchise is creatively bankrupt! It just can't move on to other directions, is all about new shiny transformations and rehashed villains over and over again! And the worst thing is that they don't even care to explain things like before anymore, the thing is just there for sh*t and giggles.


I'm still gonna watch it cause it's damn Dragon Ball, but I'm sad with the steps that this franchise has taken to be another one that only cares about selling merchandising and nothing else.
Well ur not wrong and that's the facts
This franchise is bankrupt in ideas

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:53 am

Watch the third movie be about Jiren dealing with el hermano aka his evil brother with goku and pals help

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:58 am

You people need to realise that this is movie and movies need to make money.

Every single one of these movies will have something like this. They'll all have some fan service based new transformations. It gets the movie attention which gets people in seats. Also allows them to make new merchandise to get more money back.

Without this kind of thing the movies will not do as well and then they just won't make anymore.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SquadronGOD » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:20 am

Haven't commented in years. I really want to know what's going on in that dragon ball room in Japan...

Does piccolo have 2 new forms? A Yellow and an orange one? The gohan thing is really pissing me off. Supreme kai was supposed to release all of his potential so this is super irritating.. wouldn't have minded a new aura or something but a whole new form...and don't get me started on Red Cell. Why is he red? Lol

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:20 am

Okay, Gohan looks a bit better than I thought, but piccolo looks horrendous. What were they thinking? Beyond “selling toys”, I mean. How many recolors are we up to now? Eleven? Twelve?

Also DBS basically has three timelines confirmed now. Canon arguments about modern DB is pointless.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Extreme_kai » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:43 am

After listening to the plot from people that actually saw the movie, I'm saving my money. I cannot in good faith support this at all. This movie should not be rewarded for mediocre writing, character usage, plot, and visuals(Yes, I still think the visuals look mostly bad). I get that Dragonball wants to sell merch, but orange Piccolo looks lame asf, Gohan Blanco is so mid and Cell MAx is an absolute abomination of a design. Goku, Vegeta, and Broly sell merch. A new Cooler, actual Cell, Janamba, Bojack, New villain, etc would have sold merch. A rehashed, dead brain design of an old villain that does not appease fans of the character or fans of new material is not a win. They Nostalgia baited and didn't even get that right. I'll watch the short slice-of-life scenes when they are uploaded to youtube because I love these characters, I just don't like the scenarios they are written into anymore. I put my money where my mouth was with the Broly movie, I can't with this. I refuse to eat slop just because the restaurant has the DB name on it, because the more slop I eat, the more they'll shovel in my face. I'd rather the franchise die than go on like this.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Zelvin » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:46 am

Block88 wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:41 am Gohan could not only overpower Raditz, but he could also obliterate a mountain and fly as a four-year-old. However, those were only spur of the moment happenstances, and he needed proper training in order to fully realize his powers. Likewise, Pan only flew in a spur of the moment happenstances while in a failing spaceship set to crash back into Earth. For Saiyans, Ki Control comes naturally; however, since Pan is only a quarter-Saiyan, much like Gohan, she needs training to freely and willingly use her abilities.
You're ignoring the abilities of their parents. Goku didn't even master flying until he trained with King Kai. And Goku was weaker than Raditz by quite a bit when Gohan was conceived. By comparison, Gohan is leagues beyond the power Goku had when he was born. Whereas Pan's parents are considerably greater on the power scale. Thus her inherited ability would be conceivably far greater.

Consider a numerical value. When Raditz came to Earth, Goku's battle power was around 400. When Goku recovered on Namek to face Freeza, it was 3million. Goku was 7500x stronger. Gohan, as an adult, is well above that figure. Also recall that Goten achieved SSJ by complete accident while training with Chi-Chi and he was only 4-6yrs old at the time. It happened naturally because the ability was inherited from his parent (Goku). Gohan still had his Ultimate power when Pan was conceived. On top of that, the unborn Pan also shared energy with the other Saiyans during the SSG Ritual. So Pan's inherent abilities would already be much more pronounced.

People miss the very obvious thing about Pan. She flew when she was happy. IE; Pan used Happy Thoughts to fly. It's literally how Peter Pan teaches Wendy and the kids to fly after they get sprinkled with pixie dust.
Dbzfan94 wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:20 am Okay, Gohan looks a bit better than I thought, but piccolo looks horrendous. What were they thinking? Beyond “selling toys”, I mean. How many recolors are we up to now? Eleven? Twelve?
I was more hyped for DBO. And it did a better job with the Namekian transformation in the Budokai cinematic trailer. Which included Red Eyes and a slightly darker skin tone. That looks much better than what they did to Piccolo.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:47 am

Extreme_kai wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:43 am After listening to the plot from people that actually saw the movie, I'm saving my money. I cannot in good faith support this at all. This movie should not be rewarded for mediocre writing, character usage, plot, and visuals(Yes, I still think the visuals look mostly bad). I get that Dragonball wants to sell merch, but orange Piccolo looks lame asf, Gohan Blanco is so mid and Cell MAx is an absolute abomination of a design. Goku, Vegeta, and Broly sell merch. A new Cooler, actual Cell, Janamba, Bojack, New villain, etc would have sold merch. A rehashed, dead brain design of an old villain that does not appease fans of the character or fans of new material is not a win. They Nostalgia baited and didn't even get that right. I'll watch the short slice-of-life scenes when they are uploaded to youtube because I love these characters, I just don't like the scenarios they are written into anymore. I put my money where my mouth was with the Broly movie, I can't with this. I refuse to eat slop just because the restaurant has the DB name on it, because the more slop I eat, the more they'll shovel in my face. I'd rather the franchise die than go on like this.
I agree 100%, especially with your last sentence.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SquadronGOD » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:54 am

Extreme_kai wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:43 am After listening to the plot from people that actually saw the movie, I'm saving my money. I cannot in good faith support this at all. This movie should not be rewarded for mediocre writing, character usage, plot, and visuals(Yes, I still think the visuals look mostly bad). I get that Dragonball wants to sell merch, but orange Piccolo looks lame asf, Gohan Blanco is so mid and Cell MAx is an absolute abomination of a design. Goku, Vegeta, and Broly sell merch. A new Cooler, actual Cell, Janamba, Bojack, New villain, etc would have sold merch. A rehashed, dead brain design of an old villain that does not appease fans of the character or fans of new material is not a win. They Nostalgia baited and didn't even get that right. I'll watch the short slice-of-life scenes when they are uploaded to youtube because I love these characters, I just don't like the scenarios they are written into anymore. I put my money where my mouth was with the Broly movie, I can't with this. I refuse to eat slop just because the restaurant has the DB name on it, because the more slop I eat, the more they'll shovel in my face. I'd rather the franchise die than go on like this.
I completely agree. They can't even get their own canon right. Like wtf did Elder Kai do to Gohan? This is all toei. It sucks. It literally looks like clips from Dragon Ball Heroes or something. I hope the manga goes in a completely different direction. I know it's supposed to be aimed towards kids, but dammit, I've loved this franchise for over 20 years. This doesn't sit right with me and I'm not going to the theater to watch it either. You've inspired me. Lol

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:03 am

Not sure if my summary from Twitter earlier was already posted here, but, here's a copy, with cleanup.

Some small details may be out of order, as I had nothing to reference after getting home.

Full text summary:
Non-spoiler review/comments:
  • It’s still hard to beat BoG (except visually), but in terms of sheer fun with the script and characters, and the intensity of the action, this was my favorite DB film. Fights feel fast and huge; major weight behind them.
  • This more than any movie prior feels like it could have been a manga arc. At the same time, maybe it highlights how much Toriyama outlined Granolah like he would a movie. They have similar structures. (Essentially two acts with the second including an antagonist shift—clear character throughlines with some crowd pleasers and some redemptive moments for the guest/would-be antagonist.) For the record, Granolah’s plotting came second, chronologically.
  • I think the movie had the best comedy directing of the Toriyama movies, which is an element I’ve had issues with before—it's the most in line with his kind of simultaneously dry, silly scripting. A lot of the elements that tended to bother people in bullet-point leaks are delivered with his usual wry tone. You’ll either be okay with them, or you didn’t enjoy the Boo arc.
Spoilers:
Last edited by Cipher on Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:24 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by sigmasigma » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:14 am

Thanks for posting the details. Beside the action scenes, it seems there are a lot of comedy elements in the movie. Must watch it in cinema.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Totamo » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:15 am

Noah wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:40 am Sorry guys, but I believe this is where Dragon Ball met its path to become more like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokémon type of franchises.
Storytelling just doesn't matter anymore, they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

It all adds up to THIS!
FortuneSSJ wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:35 pm Looking to these spoilers just shows once again, how risky is having Toriyama writing everything he wants without a editor to tell him "No!"
But before thinking why Toriyama is guilty of all that, let's take a look on:

In 2013 we had the first DB movie after 17 years, that had indeed good storytelling and a bit of world building, but fans though it lacked action... What Toriyama did it? "Well, they want action let's bring back Freeza (again) with a new transformation (recolor) versus Goku and Vegeta with their new blue haired SSJ forms (another recolor)!" And I don't know why Toriyama thought this would be "fine" as in a interview after BoG he said Goku would take the path to only focus in his common SSJ form (putting aside SSJ2/3) that has inherited the power of SSJ God. But then we have Bandai, Shueisha and Toei that could have pressured him to design new shiny forms for the characters as ya already know: they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

Something that proves this thesis is that Toriyama didn't wanted to make anything related to Broly in his own story, but then we got Kale, which was not enough as they managed to pressure the man to write a movie about a retconned Broly and freaking Gogeta that he was never interested in the first place!

Not wanting to play the devil advocate, but Toriyama is not the only villain in this story, this franchise is creatively bankrupt! It just can't move on to other directions, is all about new shiny transformations and rehashed villains over and over again! And the worst thing is that they don't even care to explain things like before anymore, the thing is just there for sh*t and giggles.


I'm still gonna watch it cause it's damn Dragon Ball, but I'm sad with the steps that this franchise has taken to be another one that only cares about selling merchandising and nothing else.
I disagree with this, there are plenty of new things in modern dragon ball and they could focus on them if they felt like it.

Here is the thing: If folks wanted new stuff, they would be watching new stuff and Dragon ball is 2 years shy from being 40.

People here love to say modern dragon ball only succeeds because of its name but numerous unsuccessful things over the years have also carried this name.

The truth of the matter is, they made this because people wanted this. They could definitely do this better but I ain't judging it until I see it though.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:25 am

Seems like broly is trying to hide from Freeza in this side plot so the doctor who made gamma 1 and 2 is hero’s grandson huh

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:35 am

So after reading a lot of spoiler summaries, is it actually true that

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SquadronGOD » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:38 am

Totamo wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:15 am
Noah wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:40 am Sorry guys, but I believe this is where Dragon Ball met its path to become more like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokémon type of franchises.
Storytelling just doesn't matter anymore, they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

It all adds up to THIS!
FortuneSSJ wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:35 pm Looking to these spoilers just shows once again, how risky is having Toriyama writing everything he wants without a editor to tell him "No!"
But before thinking why Toriyama is guilty of all that, let's take a look on:

In 2013 we had the first DB movie after 17 years, that had indeed good storytelling and a bit of world building, but fans though it lacked action... What Toriyama did it? "Well, they want action let's bring back Freeza (again) with a new transformation (recolor) versus Goku and Vegeta with their new blue haired SSJ forms (another recolor)!" And I don't know why Toriyama thought this would be "fine" as in a interview after BoG he said Goku would take the path to only focus in his common SSJ form (putting aside SSJ2/3) that has inherited the power of SSJ God. But then we have Bandai, Shueisha and Toei that could have pressured him to design new shiny forms for the characters as ya already know: they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

Something that proves this thesis is that Toriyama didn't wanted to make anything related to Broly in his own story, but then we got Kale, which was not enough as they managed to pressure the man to write a movie about a retconned Broly and freaking Gogeta that he was never interested in the first place!

Not wanting to play the devil advocate, but Toriyama is not the only villain in this story, this franchise is creatively bankrupt! It just can't move on to other directions, is all about new shiny transformations and rehashed villains over and over again! And the worst thing is that they don't even care to explain things like before anymore, the thing is just there for sh*t and giggles.


I'm still gonna watch it cause it's damn Dragon Ball, but I'm sad with the steps that this franchise has taken to be another one that only cares about selling merchandising and nothing else.
I disagree with this, there are plenty of new things in modern dragon ball and they could focus on them if they felt like it.

Here is the thing: If folks wanted new stuff, they would be watching new stuff and Dragon ball is 2 years shy from being 40.

People here love to say modern dragon ball only succeeds because of its name but numerous unsuccessful things over the years have also carried this name.

The truth of the matter is, they made this because people wanted this. They could definitely do this better but I ain't judging it until I see it though.
People wanted them to put focus on Piccolo and Gohan and to make them more relevant again. They could have done it without retconning everything. Namekian transformations? Super ultimate? Like all of this could have been done without the new forms.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:42 am

So... from what I have seen, regarding the leaks of some of the fight scenes and plot synopsis... it seems like Toriyama just embraced some of the memes and stereotypes that have been associated with Dragon Ball and kinda(?) included some tongue-in-cheek commentary to perhaps indicate he's in on the joke.

If Gohan Blanco is gonna be a thing, you may as well go all out with this shit and have a crossover with Scooby-Doo so they can give us Ultra Instinct Shaggy.

I think at this stage Toriyama needs to pack it in. If Big Green Orange Piccolo, Psuedo Ultra Instinct Rage Boost Gohan, Bulma using the Dragon Balls to wish for a bigger ass, Goten and Trunks failing at the fusion dance and a brainless second form version of Cell are the best story beats we can get from Toriyama when he has over three years to work on the story of the movie, I think he DESPERATELY needs some to support him creatively. It's such a crapshoot when Toriyama get full reigns to write his own story these days because, for every Battle Of Gods and DBS Broly he provides, he also gives Ressurection F and Dragon Ball Minus.

Not to mention Toriyama not giving a flying fuck what happens in the anime or manga continuities, effectively creating a third narrative continuity of Super, which in itself, means there's no version of Super with a singular streamlined and easy-to-follow narrative that connects to this movie. Continuity for modern Dragon Ball is a goddamn mess. Seriously, what are the events that proceed this movie within modern material? It seems like this movie exists within a vacuum.

I have a bad feeling this movie may enter the category of "so bad, it's good", with how absolutely absurd it appears in the final act. And that is NOT what I want from a Dragon Ball film in 2022. It should be better than that.

I think what seems to bother me the most from what I've learned about this movie is how inconsequential it sounds. Much like Resurrection F, it doesn't feel like a natural extension of any plotline in the anime or manga continuities. This movie sounds like it wants to do its own thing. And I'm not averse to Toriyama wanting to play with his toybox. But did this story need to be a full-length movie? It honestly sounds like it would have served better as a three-episode filler arc if the TV anime came back. And if the TV anime doesn't come back, then showcase it as a TV special or a two-part OVA. I just can't help but feel like with the story being told, it didn't justify nearly 4 years of production, especially if this movie doesn't actually lead to anything significant for any of the characters.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SsjRavi » Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:23 am

Just watched the movie and:
"No. A sword is a weapon. Kenjutsu is the art of killing. Whatever pretty words you use to speak of it, this is its true nature. What Miss Kaoru says are the words of one who has never dirtied her hands. An idealistic joke. But, I like Miss Kaoru's idealism better than its true nature. If one can ask so much, I want the world to accept this joke as its true nature."
- Himura Kenshin

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:35 am

Lord Beerus wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:42 am So... from what I have seen, regarding the leaks of some of the fight scenes and plot synopsis... it seems like Toriyama just embraced some of the memes and stereotypes that have been associated with Dragon Ball and kinda(?) included some tongue-in-cheek commentary to perhaps indicate he's in on the joke.

If Gohan Blanco is gonna be a thing, you may as well go all out with this shit and have a crossover with Scooby-Doo so they can give us Ultra Instinct Shaggy.

I think at this stage Toriyama needs to pack it in. If Big Green Orange Piccolo, Psuedo Ultra Instinct Rage Boost Gohan, Bulma using the Dragon Balls to wish for a bigger ass, Goten and Trunks failing at the fusion dance and a brainless second form version of Cell are the best story beats we can get from Toriyama when he has over three years to work on the story of the movie, I think he DESPERATELY needs some to support him creatively. It's such a crapshoot when Toriyama get full reigns to write his own story these days because, for every Battle Of Gods and DBS Broly he provides, he also gives Ressurection F and Dragon Ball Minus.

Not to mention Toriyama not giving a flying fuck what happens in the anime or manga continuities, effectively creating a third narrative continuity of Super, which in itself, means there's no version of Super with a singular streamlined and easy-to-follow narrative that connects to this movie. Continuity for modern Dragon Ball is a goddamn mess. Seriously, what are the events that proceed this movie within modern material? It seems like this movie exists within a vacuum.

I have a bad feeling this movie may enter the category of "so bad, it's good", with how absolutely absurd it appears in the final act. And that is NOT what I want from a Dragon Ball film in 2022. It should be better than that.

I think what seems to bother me the most from what I've learned about this movie is how inconsequential it sounds. Much like Resurrection F, it doesn't feel like a natural extension of any plotline in the anime or manga continuities. This movie sounds like it wants to do its own thing. And I'm not averse to Toriyama wanting to play with his toybox. But did this story need to be a full-length movie? It honestly sounds like it would have served better as a three-episode filler arc if the TV anime came back. And if the TV anime doesn't come back, then showcase it as a TV special or a two-part OVA. I just can't help but feel like with the story being told, it didn't justify nearly 4 years of production, especially if this movie doesn't actually lead to anything significant for any of the characters.
I am really confused because people saying the third act is insane and what not.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:41 am

New art by Kubota:

And some character sheets:
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:42 am

Lord Beerus wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:42 amI just can't help but feel like with the story being told, it didn't justify nearly 4 years of production, especially if this movie doesn't actually lead to anything significant for any of the characters.
I think at the very least Dr. Hedo and Gamma 1 are being set up to be recurring characters that assist other leads in some capacity, much like Cheelai with Broly. I just hope Toriyama will know what to do with all of these characters going forward.

Otherwise I agree the story is very underwhelming given how much time Dragon Ball has been on a break, and I didn't want new forms for Gohan and Piccolo.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the animation, and hearing Nozawa screaming Makankosappo though. I'll resetve judgement until I've seen the movie, if it ends up feeling like a better version of Bio Broly I'll be happy.
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