Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Extreme_kai]

Any idea can sound dumb when you simplify it. Like me saying the King Piccata Saga is about a monkey boy fighting a demonic slug who spit out eggs to create demon children and the monkey boy got stronger by drinking a cup of poison.

I've seen the clips, it looks as absurd as it sounds. At this point Super Super Heros to me at most can be a "So bad it's good movie" and I'm not paying to watch a movie like that, especially from one of my favorite franchises of all time. I have to vote with my dollar for the content I want to see. Some fans are simply not happy with the direction the series is going, doesn't mean we aren't fans, we just want better. If fans keep buying whatever just because they want new Dragon Ball stuff, the series will continue to lower the bar, since they know we will buy it just because it has the DB logo on it. I was spoiled for Broly, actually watched the whole movie in Japanese for free first. I knew all the plot beats beforehand and I liked the screenplay, so I purchased it twice and watched it in theaters twice, the only movie I've ever done that for.

Seeing clips isn’t really the same as seeing the full movie, especially when the clips are utter crap. Like I enjoyed Broly far more than I thought compared to glancing at Youthey clips.

When did I say you’re not a fan. I only said those who watched the movie came back with mostly positive reviews. In comparison, most of the more negative views are from people who didn’t even see it and basing everything on hearsay or clips. It’s fine to say you have no interest, but you really can’t say the product is bad.

“. If fans keep buying whatever just because they want new Dragon Ball stuff, the series will continue to lower the bar, since they know we will buy it just because it has the DB logo on it. ”

And this is a massive problem I have. It’s this arrogance that you have superior taste by implying that anyone that likes and supports the movie are doing it because it’s Dragon Ball and they’ll buy anything. Maybe people actually liked the movie. Especially when people said the same thing about Broly, a movie you like.

All you're saying is I must watch the movie I.E Pay for the movie to have an opinion on it and I simply refused. I knew I was going to like Broly just from the reviews and the synopsis and I did. There is nothing in Super Hero's for me to like besides the slice-of-life segments I can watch for free on youtube later, It's as simple as that. This movie isn't getting a dime from me, and that's where I will leave that at. If I do ever watch it later (and trust me, I'm not clamoring to watch it), I will watch it for free like I did with resurrection F lol

[LastationLover5000]

At this point, I think it's obvious that the new transformations aren't something that Toriyama comes up with, but an imposition from above to sell toys and hype the more simplistic fans. The uglyness or simplicity of these new forms is the way Toriyama has found since BoG to entertain himself with the idea and to make fun of everyone who wants more and more transformations. I'm ok with that (but I really would prefer no new transformations at all, of course).

I think it varies. Super Saiyan God wasn't supposed to exist at all in its current state - Toriyama just didn't believe the Dragon Ball fans could comprehend an increase in power without a physical change to go with it. The state the series is in currently - pushing transformation after transformation - is a result of its own issues. It popularised the transformation trope - even if it wasn't the first to start it - and now Dragon Ball fans expect a new form every movie, every arc, every shitty Dragon Ball Heroes anime commercial. And they get it, because it works, and because it does indeed sell toys.

But I don't believe merchandise was the reason God and God Super Saiyan exist. I believe those were, at the very least, made by Toriyama for the sake of his story. "This is what the Saiyans are now, this is what they can do". And simplicity is where Toriyama excels. Super Saiyan is only blonde because it is less work for the editor: less inking and thus less time. He created the Air Dance Technique to draw less vehicles, and usually has battles in open, empty areas to avoid spectators and other trivial details he just doesn't care for. Simplicity is what Toriyama eats, drinks, and breathes, and normally, it works. Super Saiyan was amazing. Super Saiyan 2 is debatable on everyone but Gohan but the simplicity is still there: "hair spikier". God and Blue look fantastic, especially Super Saiyan God in the first film, and the simplicity of the form is what sells it. Reduces muscle mass, softer features, and barely any change in the hair. It's a subtle kind of power but I absolutely love it.

These three new forms - Potential Unleashed Piccolo, Piccolo Orange, and Final Gohan - don't hit those same bars for me. Beyond the fact that they 100% exist for the merchandising they are going to create, they are literally unearned in Piccolo's case, and Gohan's just exists to remind everyone of the Cell Games Gohan - which no one seems to be able to let go of, and is Gohan at his literal worst. He would HATE to be SSJ2 Kid Gohan 100% of the time.

I'm sad. As someone who has spent nearly a decade writing a Gohan fic, this entire situation depresses me.

[HeroR]

I've seen the clips, it looks as absurd as it sounds. At this point Super Super Heros to me at most can be a "So bad it's good movie" and I'm not paying to watch a movie like that, especially from one of my favorite franchises of all time. I have to vote with my dollar for the content I want to see. Some fans are simply not happy with the direction the series is going, doesn't mean we aren't fans, we just want better. If fans keep buying whatever just because they want new Dragon Ball stuff, the series will continue to lower the bar, since they know we will buy it just because it has the DB logo on it. I was spoiled for Broly, actually watched the whole movie in Japanese for free first. I knew all the plot beats beforehand and I liked the screenplay, so I purchased it twice and watched it in theaters twice, the only movie I've ever done that for.

Seeing clips isn’t really the same as seeing the full movie, especially when the clips are utter crap. Like I enjoyed Broly far more than I thought compared to glancing at Youthey clips.

When did I say you’re not a fan. I only said those who watched the movie came back with mostly positive reviews. In comparison, most of the more negative views are from people who didn’t even see it and basing everything on hearsay or clips. It’s fine to say you have no interest, but you really can’t say the product is bad.

“. If fans keep buying whatever just because they want new Dragon Ball stuff, the series will continue to lower the bar, since they know we will buy it just because it has the DB logo on it. ”

And this is a massive problem I have. It’s this arrogance that you have superior taste by implying that anyone that likes and supports the movie are doing it because it’s Dragon Ball and they’ll buy anything. Maybe people actually liked the movie. Especially when people said the same thing about Broly, a movie you like.

All you're saying is I must watch the movie I.E Pay for the movie to have an opinion on it and I simply refused. I knew I was going to like Broly just from the reviews and the synopsis and I did. There is nothing in Super Hero's for me to like besides the slice-of-life segments I can watch for free on youtube later, It's as simple as that. This movie isn't getting a dime from me, and that's where I will leave that at. If I do ever watch it later (and trust me, I'm not clamoring to watch it), I will watch it for free like I did with resurrection F lol

Not what I said. I said you can’t judge a movie good or bad without seeing it first. That’s different than say, ‘this movie doesn’t interest me so I won’t watch it’.

That and your attitude isn’t helping when you more less suggest that people only liked the movie before it’s Dragon Ball.

[Cipher]

It is not my job to convince anyone to like the movie, but I do think some people here are placing more emphasis on transformations as a bullet-point item than they are ... even bothering to wonder, really ... about how anything around them is scripted or executed. (Which is, IMO, insanely charming and fun.)

That's everyone's own prerogative, but that's kind of a shame. You probably won't enjoy this movie if Dragon Ball is a collection of self-serious transformations to you of a particular sort to you, but if you enjoy it for any other reason, you just might!

Spoiler:

The film is absolutely having a bit of fun with itself when it comes to the transformations too, and Orange Piccolo fits perfectly into that goofy/sincerely fun and cool spot Super Saiyan 3 does.

[Dbzfan94]

I just got back from seeing this.

Spoiler:

I liked this movie a WHOLE lot better than the Broly one. The story was pretty decent (though nothing mind-blowing), the characterizations were great, and the new characters all really seemed to fit into the Dragon Ball universe with no problem.

I really, really loved how this was, for all intents and purposes, just a Piccolo and Gohan movie. As the movie got into the Cell Max fight I was worried they were going to bring Goku and Vegeta in to save the say like in pretty much every other story in this franchise but nope, Piccolo and Gohan defeated all the villains themselves! In fact, you could pretty much cut Goku's and Vegeta's scenes from the film and you really wouldn't miss much!

A few other random observations:

- Animation-wise, I thought the movie looked great a good 95% of the time. The fact that the whole thing was CG instead of it being like 2/3 hand drawn, 1/3 CG or whatever gives the movie a nice consistency that I really appreciated. There were a few parts, especially at the beginning, with some noticeable jaggies on the screen but that could just be because I was watching this on a giant theater screen.
- I could watch a whole movie with just Piccolo and Pan interacting with each other. Their chemistry in this was just absolutely perfect; the playful way she trains with him, the way she faithfully follows his instructions to act helpless when she's "kidnapped," the little fist bump she gives him after the two of them successfully piss off Gohan enough to trigger one of his power-ups...everything about the two of them in this movie is just perfect.
- Does Gohan know English? A lot of the textbooks he had around his study had English language titles and the essay he's seen typing up also seemed to be in English so I guess he does...?
- Bulma's new VA did pretty well in this, I though. She's no Hiromi Tsuru but I feel like she did the job well enough.
- Mr. Popo is conspicuously absent during the scene with Dende halfway through the movie. No name drop, no one addresses his absence, nothing. I guess Toei's (finally!) decided to just kind of sweep him under the rug...?
- When it comes to parts that might give Western censors "trouble," the only things that really stood out to me were 1) a scene or two of Magenta smoking a cigar, 2) some unnecessarily pervy Bulma fanservice shots, and 3) a tiny amount of blood during the final fight.

The series has been uncut for a very long time now. There wont be any problem with censorship.

[ZombieVito]

It is not my job to convince anyone to like the movie, but I do think some people here are placing more emphasis on transformations as a bullet-point item than they are ... even bothering to wonder, really ... about how anything around them is scripted or executed. (Which is, IMO, insanely charming and fun.)

That's everyone's own prerogative, but that's kind of a shame. You probably won't enjoy this movie if Dragon Ball is a collection of self-serious transformations to you of a particular sort to you, but if you enjoy it for any other reason, you just might!

Spoiler:

The film is absolutely having a bit of fun with itself when it comes to the transformations too, and Orange Piccolo fits perfectly into that goofy/sincerely fun and cool spot Super Saiyan 3 does.

Is it true that Gamma 1 at 18% of power is equal to Ultimate Gohan?

[Cipher]

Is it true that Gamma 1 at 18% of power is equal to Ultimate Gohan?

Spoiler:

Ultimate Gohan has the upper hand against Gamma 1 the entire time, but Gamma 1 won't stay down. The only thing Gamma 1 says is that he still has 80 percent of his energy reserves left--he's a long way from tiring out.

[Zelvin]

All you're saying is I must watch the movie I.E Pay for the movie to have an opinion on it and I simply refused. I knew I was going to like Broly just from the reviews and the synopsis and I did. There is nothing in Super Hero's for me to like besides the slice-of-life segments I can watch for free on youtube later, It's as simple as that. This movie isn't getting a dime from me, and that's where I will leave that at. If I do ever watch it later (and trust me, I'm not clamoring to watch it), I will watch it for free like I did with resurrection F lol

Not what I said. I said you can’t judge a movie good or bad without seeing it first. That’s different than say, ‘this movie doesn’t interest me so I won’t watch it’.

That and your attitude isn’t helping when you more less suggest that people only liked the movie before it’s Dragon Ball.

No, you are suggesting that, before someone can even be allowed to have a valid opinion, is to first support the thing they already know they aren't going to like beforehand, from all available information that has been shown and leaked about the thing in question. Which was damn near its entirety. But then comes the inevitable "You're not a REAL fan" argument even should someone actually see the product and still finds that their criticisms and thoughts on it were as expected. Which is precisely what happened with the likes of Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. WHO, etc etc.

Now, I will say that the movie may well be perfectly serviceable. However, this is like eating a bunch of candy after fasting for two weeks. You're going to feel it's a lot better and more filling than it actually is. We've gone about three years without any Dragonball Anime since the Broly movie. So the audience was going to be hungry for just about anything that came out. That doesn't mean the product has maintained the same level of quality. This is basically going from a well-done steak to fast food, but you're so grateful for the fast food because you haven't eaten anything but bland cereal for a month.

Super Hero is the equivalent of a sugar rush. That high feels really great for a bit, but you'll crash after a while. Then you'll feel bloated and tired and wondering why you just did that. At this point it is more a divide between people who want Dragon Ball to improve and be consistent with its writing and quality, and people who just want their sugar rush whenever they can get it. People can still like the movie as well as accept the fact that other's aren't going to like it. There is very valid criticism and yes, you can criticize the audience too for being mindless consumers. Just as well as you can criticize those that point out every single flaw in a movie and not take any time to find something they may actually like.

At the end of the day, to myself an others, this movie was a Frankenstein's mess of old concepts, story points, 'homages' and fan-fiction stitched together into something that, frankly, has no reason to exist besides "Here's new product. Now consume product and get excited for next product". To us, it's sad to see. Like watching someone you're close to having come down with dementia. You want the best for them, but you know there's no going back to how things were. And there's no getting better. It's all downhill from then on. For us, DBS Broly was the final installment. Everything that comes after is like the old DBZ movies. They don't fit into the main story and they aren't meant to. They're just a bit of mindless fun with no stakes or consequences between releases to keep you occupied. It's just that the future is nothing but that now.

[ZombieVito]

Is it true that Gamma 1 at 18% of power is equal to Ultimate Gohan?

Spoiler:

Ultimate Gohan has the upper hand against Gamma 1 the entire time, but Gamma 1 won't stay down. The only thing Gamma 1 says is that he still has 80 percent of his energy reserves left--he's a long way from tiring out.

Thanks. Does the movie say which Gamma is stronger?

[Soba Mask]

Full movie is in YT

Spoiler:

<Link to pirated material removed>

So there is no Gohan Blanco. His hair is gray

[Cipher]

Is it true that Gamma 1 at 18% of power is equal to Ultimate Gohan?

Spoiler:

Ultimate Gohan has the upper hand against Gamma 1 the entire time, but Gamma 1 won't stay down. The only thing Gamma 1 says is that he still has 80 percent of his energy reserves left--he's a long way from tiring out.

Thanks. Does the movie say which Gamma is stronger?

It does not. Presumably they're about even.

[Shorty GZ2]

Watched the whole movie, it was *pretend-to-be-shocked-face* quite fun. Helped that I was welcome to enjoying/being able to enjoy it whether I took it seriously or not, instead of being wholly determined to hate it on the basis of hating transformations, CG, or the conceit of modern DB in general, which may be a difficult concept for some...

[pepd]

At this point, I think it's obvious that the new transformations aren't something that Toriyama comes up with, but an imposition from above to sell toys and hype the more simplistic fans. The uglyness or simplicity of these new forms is the way Toriyama has found since BoG to entertain himself with the idea and to make fun of everyone who wants more and more transformations. I'm ok with that (but I really would prefer no new transformations at all, of course).

Toriyama said that the team suggested some designs like with the RR base. I can totally see that being the case for Gohan, specially for the obvious callback to the popular SS2 kid Gohan hair, and the spectacular but random visuals for the eyes (like white and green hair in Broly); but "Orange Piccolo" does sound like a name Toriyama would came up with, tho it could be that he only named it, or simply that Toei got something right.

At the end of the day, I'm more interested in the rest to enjoy and judge the movie, but it would really like to know, so if it's the case I could ignore it like green Broly.

[Soba Mask]

Just a question? What is the different between a picture and a video?

[Majin Buu]

No, you are suggesting that, before someone can even be allowed to have a valid opinion, is to first support the thing they already know they aren't going to like beforehand, from all available information that has been shown and leaked about the thing in question.

If someone is certain they're going to hate the movie then what purpose are they serving complaining about it endlessly? It's not going to convince anyone that wants to see to not see it. At best it comes off as attention-seeking, and at worst, trying to ruin the experience for those that are looking forward to it. Just say your piece and move on.

People can still like the movie as well as accept the fact that other's aren't going to like it.

Likewise, people can not like the movie and accept that others are going to like it. Some of the people in this thread don't seem to be able to do that though and like to insinuate that people are objectively wrong for liking it or weren't thinking critically about it. It comes off like hating it is the only valid viewpoint.

There is very valid criticism and yes, you can criticize the audience too for being mindless consumers. Just as well as you can criticize those that point out every single flaw in a movie and not take any time to find something they may actually like.

Kinda hard to find something to like about a movie when you've decided you're not going to see it.

At the end of the day, to myself an others, this movie was a Frankenstein's mess of old concepts, story points, 'homages' and fan-fiction stitched together into something that, frankly, has no reason to exist besides "Here's new product. Now consume product and get excited for next product". To us, it's sad to see. Like watching someone you're close to having come down with dementia. You want the best for them, but you know there's no going back to how things were. And there's no getting better. It's all downhill from then on. For us, DBS Broly was the final installment. Everything that comes after is like the old DBZ movies. They don't fit into the main story and they aren't meant to. They're just a bit of mindless fun with no stakes or consequences between releases to keep you occupied. It's just that the future is nothing but that now.

Again, just say your piece and move on then. Those that like it can enjoy it in peace and detractors don't have to waste time and energy being negative. But again, some of the people in thread don't seem to be able to do that and prefer to endlessly repeat the same complaints to the point where it get's exhausting to read and grandstand about it like some kind of moral crusade.

[capsulecorp]

Again, just say your piece and move on then. Those that like it can enjoy it in peace and detractors don't have to waste time and energy being negative. But again, some of the people in thread don't seem to be able to do that and prefer to endlessly repeat the same complaints to the point where it get's exhausting to read and grandstand about it like some kind of moral crusade.

This. It's fine to enjoy what you enjoy, and not enjoy what you don't enjoy, but repetitious hate (or love!) is just boring, and being boring on a message board is just a waste of everyone's time. Make better, or fewer, posts, please.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

As somone who has been (& is still ) on the side of not fully liking this movie per say there are some things I do like: the Orange piccolo form I think it looks beastly (is the weird glow sign on his back the whole time? If so that’s a plus) the jury is still out on the Gohan one for me but I don’t outright hate it just looks weird. I do like the potential of Hedo joining the Z fighters/capsule corp his knowledge and mechanical skill can be useful and entertaining if they play it right hopefully he’s not played as a gag. If you take out the cell max and just have a new kaiju monster I think this could have been much better.

[Dragmobot12]

Just noticed it for a brief second on Piccolo's back as he transforms. Could this be the legendary Tree of Might in canon? To me it is a symbol of the Tree of Might in the mythology of the gods. It could also be related to Zalama, for example, what if it is his symbol or what if he is the actual creator of the this Tree of Might?

[Xeno Goku Black]

Just for those that haven't been looking at the box office thread. Early estimates have this movie opening on par or below Battle of Gods with a total that could fall quite a good chunk below.

It's going to be a box office disappointment domestically from the looks of things.

I had said such a possibility could occur months ago, I'm not the on!y one. From a business perspective why they didn't replicate Broly I'll never know. The decision to go CGI (usually poorly received in Japan as is) and to shove the two most popular characters to the side was the wrong one to make.

Hopefully this does not put Toei off from continuing to make more movies. Probably won't help the chances of the anime series coming back eithe

[pepd]

Just noticed it for a brief second on Piccolo's back as he transforms. Could this be the legendary Tree of Might in canon? To me it is a symbol of the Tree of Might in the mythology of the gods. It could also be related to Zalama, for example, what if it is his symbol or what if he is the actual creator of the this Tree of Might?

The top image is from the movie?
Definitely not from the non-canon movie, but it could be the introduction of Yggdrasil to DB. It could be the "dimension" they come from, and maaybe have something to do with this: