Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[MCDaveG]

OK, so I saw it as well... I must say that I have enjoyed the orange Piccolo, but Gohan looks rudiculous even in motion.
Will have to wait for western release to get subtitles, but I must say, that the movie is quite fun!

There is some stuff I really loved...

Spoiler:

The flashbacks in new animation look really cool! The history of Red Ribbon in the series. Gotenks was actually funny in the movie, made me laugh the same way like he did in BOG when Beerus spanked him. I guess we forget that the series is for kids and I think that it is a classic Toriyama. When Piccolo comes with the Red Ribbon guy to his house and Goku just finger flicks his gun away made me laugh.

[lancerman]

Just finished watching it. Easily the best Dragon Ball movie they've ever put out. Actually had a plot and managed to effectively use an ensemble cast. It had a bit of that early dragon ball feel of when the characters felt a bit like a team. Everyone had a role to play in the final battle. Strong character work. Animation was absolutely gorgeous, like at it's heights it was insane. But the battles didn't feel like gratuitous really fast punching and kicking, every segment of the fights had purpose.

As a pure film, it's easily the best piece of cinema. Pretty much all the other films rely heavily on you already being a fan. This does too, but it's something you could bring a newb too and it wouldn't seem like senseless fighting with underdeveloped characters and a so-so plot to set it up.

[Nistarkail]

Just finished watching it. Easily the best Dragon Ball movie they've ever put out. Actually had a plot and managed to effectively use an ensemble cast. It had a bit of that early dragon ball feel of when the characters felt a bit like a team. Everyone had a role to play in the final battle. Strong character work. Animation was absolutely gorgeous, like at it's heights it was insane. But the battles didn't feel like gratuitous really fast punching and kicking, every segment of the fights had purpose.

As a pure film, it's easily the best piece of cinema. Pretty much all the other films rely heavily on you already being a fan. This does too, but it's something you could bring a newb too and it wouldn't seem like senseless fighting with underdeveloped characters and a so-so plot to set it up.

How did you see it? :O

[MCDaveG]

Overall, the movie looks good in 3D and the use of it in shots is done really well... but yeah, there are some jarring parts as well, when they break the stillness of characters with shots or sometimes, there is this video game feel to it, when you have motion to still characters so they seem a bit more alive (breathing animations from 2D fighters).

The action is superb though and I also loved the designs, except for Gohan's weird transformation hair... there is this shot after battle, where it really looks rudiculous and def won't get better on subsequent viewings.

But overall, as fun as BOG, better than ROF and worthy sequel to Broly. I like it even more for Gohan and Piccolo over the classic set up we get in Super anime and manga. If they will have to transform everyone to make them stay relevant to Goku and Vegeta, well, do it!

Also interesting:

Spoiler:

Dr. Hedo is a grandkid of Dr. Gero... at least I guess with my limited knowledge of Japanese

[lancerman]

Just finished watching it. Easily the best Dragon Ball movie they've ever put out. Actually had a plot and managed to effectively use an ensemble cast. It had a bit of that early dragon ball feel of when the characters felt a bit like a team. Everyone had a role to play in the final battle. Strong character work. Animation was absolutely gorgeous, like at it's heights it was insane. But the battles didn't feel like gratuitous really fast punching and kicking, every segment of the fights had purpose.

As a pure film, it's easily the best piece of cinema. Pretty much all the other films rely heavily on you already being a fan. This does too, but it's something you could bring a newb too and it wouldn't seem like senseless fighting with underdeveloped characters and a so-so plot to set it up.

How did you see it? :O

Not a way I'm probably supposed to

[lancerman]

Overall, the movie looks good in 3D and the use of it in shots is done really well... but yeah, there are some jarring parts as well, when they break the stillness of characters with shots or sometimes, there is this video game feel to it, when you have motion to still characters so they seem a bit more alive (breathing animations from 2D fighters).

The action is superb though and I also loved the designs, except for Gohan's weird transformation hair... there is this shot after battle, where it really looks rudiculous and def won't get better on subsequent viewings.

But overall, as fun as BOG, better than ROF and worthy sequel to Broly. I like it even more for Gohan and Piccolo over the classic set up we get in Super anime and manga. If they will have to transform everyone to make them stay relevant to Goku and Vegeta, well, do it!

Also interesting:

Spoiler:

Dr. Hedo is a grandkid of Dr. Gero... at least I guess with my limited knowledge of Japanese

All I'll say is, in all the Super movies so far, Goku and Vegeta were the only heroes who mattered, and even though two heroes were clearly above everyone else in this film, they found a way to make 5 to 6 fighters relevant contributors in the big final set piece. That's not including non fighters who had a part to play.

[batistabus]

Re: the Toriyama interview translated by Herms:
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1535710396333494272

I totally forgot that the film's main title is "Dragon Ball Super", so there ended up being two "supers". I guess everyone thought I had done this on purpose, because nobody pointed it out to me (laughs).

This is so funny. Just like in his stories, the line between "genius" and "idiot" is blurred. And of course everyone just assumed he was being quirky (like Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan), so they were like "wow, amazing title, Toriyama-sensei!"

Like with "Z", it seems Toriyama just considers everything Dragon Ball. So I guess pretentious purists have cause to just call this film Dragon Ball: Super Hero.

Up until now, while everyone has worked really hard on the animation, there have always been areas of unevenness in the finished product, due to the division of labor and the different talents and quirks of the animators.

Hard to tell if he's complaining about the quality of the anime again here, but it sounds like he's happier with the way his art is being conveyed in this film.

*explains Piccolo's backstory*

I'm surprised he was able to recount all of that lol.

Most Namekians are sage types, and fighting types like Piccolo are rare.

They're still a very mysterious race

I like that this film and the Granolah arc have expanded on the Namekians. The "book of legends" is still nowhere to be found, but I can't help but wonder if the

Spoiler:

symbol on Orange Piccolo's gi is Zalama's. Probably won't be...

His stuffed animal collection got started when Gohan's daughter Pan gave him one. He pretended to be happy so that he wouldn't hurt Pan's feelings, so Gohan and Videl mistakenly believe he really does like them.

Very endearing. Gohan and Videl are idiots for this and I love it. I'm glad to see idiot Gohan on full display in this one.

And Videl and Pan likewise think of Piccolo as a family member they can rely on more than any other.

Yep.

The anime series from 2013 onward has been a casual continuation of my original manga. For the first-time Dragon Ball viewer, it might be a little hard to figure out the various character relationships..."

"A casual continuation of my original manga" is better than a "grand side-story" I guess. It seems like he's downplaying it a bit. His involvement in Super is certainly casual compared to the original series where he scripted and drew everything himself (with the help of editors and assistants, of course).

I've seen some people online interpret this as "the anime is canon and the manga is not", which is pretty funny. The manga is not relevant to this interview so he has no reason to bring it up. The point is that there's information from the original series and Super that would help one's enjoyment of the film.

[nato25]

Some mad lad has actually uploaded the whole film (no subs) to YouTube in 4 parts with decent enough quality. Of course I won't post the link here but have at it while you can and of course support the official release. Can't wait to see this properly in theaters, there's a lot of dialogue and it seems like many references to the past, I'll at least keep that a surprise for myself.

[capsulecorp]

I gotta say, I don't know to what make of what I've heard of this film. The spoilers I've accidentally seen seem absolutely ridiculous and not that appealing to be honest, but fan reaction seems really positive. I guess I'm still cautiously optimistic, I wish I could see it now.

[lancerman]

I gotta say, I don't know to what make of what I've heard of this film. The spoilers I've accidentally seen seem absolutely ridiculous and not that appealing to be honest, but fan reaction seems really positive. I guess I'm still cautiously optimistic, I wish I could see it now.

It plays better in action than it sounds on paper. Orange Piccolo sounds dumb, but the transformation looks cool and is one of the better transformations the series has done since SSJ in differentiating a character and making it look imposing and like a substantial upgrade. The Gohan transformation is just SSJ2 Adult Gohan with white/silver hair similar to Goku's UI hair color. And it's very intentionally done. Like you know the point of it during the film so it doesn't feel like this goofy cheap thing. In fact I would say both are handled better than any of the God transformations which just seem sort of out there.

Even Cell Max, you sort of get what the deal is with him and it works

Spoiler:

he's essentially a kaiju and there is a Shin Godzilla reference, it allows all the characters to feel like they are taken down this big monster.

[WittyUsername]

Remember last year when people assumed this would be more of a low-key movie, rather than the kind of fanservice fest that the last two movies were? People sure got that one wrong, didn’t they?

[Grimlock]

About Android 21:

Spoiler:

It's so nice that Toriyama or whoever it was decided to put her in this movie. She has a great design (and she has long hair!), so it's a very welcome addition to reuse what is already known. I'd hate if they had redesigned her for whatever reason. I can only hope to see more of her in the very near future!

About Goten, Trunks and Gotenks:

Spoiler:

The teenagers only appear for the final battle, but still... It's so, so damn good to finally see them all grown up! Holy fuck, why did they take so long to age them up!? That said, all the positive thing that comes from them must probably have negative things too, in this case, it's "failed Gotenks". He was actually useful in battle, but nevertheless, it would still be a lot better if it was a proper teenager Gotenks. Again, I can only hope to see it properly in a very near future.

Note: His hair is indeed black and purple, when it should have been black and blue. Also, his vest is green, not matching his anime colors or manga colors.

About Piccolo:

Spoiler:

I still can't understand why Piccolo's belt changes colors when he transforms into Ultimate, but oh well. I'm glad he finally got a transformation, about time! As for "Orange Piccolo", as they call it, he does have the red eyes! So yet again, my hopes is that this is a transformation for Piccolo to master, getting rid of the orange skin and becoming taller, so we can prepare the grounds for Dragon Ball Online!

About Dragon Ball Online:

Spoiler:

Is this a motherfucking Dragon Ball Online reference!? I don't know what the "C" stands for, but I know damn well "RP"!

No Marron or Bra, and speaking of them, where are they? Bra is two years old, Vegeta is nowhere to be found and Bulma is, of course, involved in these events, so who's taking care of her? Bulma's parents? Marron's supposedly eleven years old, doesn't she want to fight or anything? I know if we go by the tournament, that seems to be the case, but you know... It's something I'd like it to be changed, having Pan, Bra and Marron as fighters would be awesome.
Some missed opportunities, of course, as this movie could have kicked something off, or at least provided some teaser/hint about what's next, through Goku changing clothes into his blue outfit and such, or a Uub cameo, something, anything... Oh well. Cell Max unfortunately doesn't look nothing like Cell-X, but like I said, seeing the characters facing a giant opponent was indeed a nice change, for a change, it was cool seeing them working together.

Goku and Bulma don't see each other, if they keep this up and if the manga sagas didn't occur in this continuity, then that idea that they haven't seen each other for about five years is still valid, as they last saw each other in Movie 1 (AGE 780).

Overall, it's a good movie, filled with nice interactions, the highlight goes indeed to Piccolo and Pan interactions, they're great together! It's far, far better than Movie 15. Better than the present part from Movie 1, but still worse than Movie 14.

This movie takes place one year before the manga’s epilogue,

Mind to provide a source?

[Kagari]

Movie is fun. And Gohan didn't actually get weak or lose his forms so... all that concern was over nothing. Piccolo wanting him to be active is all played in a very self-aware way.

[Kataphrut]

My point was ever since Goku got UI they've been handing out new forms and powerups to Vegeta to compensate and none of them have stuck because UI was a genuine cultural reset rivaling the original Super Saiyan transformation while all of Vegeta's new powerups are things we either forgot about the moment they happened or wish we could.

So for the movie to ignore all that and just say he needs to meditate is practically an acknowledgment of that.

From the beginning SSBE wasn't supposed to be Vegeta's way of rivaling Goku since it was clearly well below Ultra Instinct. It just represents the moment that Vegeta decides to set his path apart from Goku.

The Yardrat training also wasn't meant to give Vegeta his own way of matching Ultra Instinct. It was specifically designed to counter Moro, so there was no promise for it to stick around after that.

Really the only thing that was created with that intention was Ultra Ego, and Toyotaro specifically says that, which is why that's a technique on the same vein as Ultra Instinct. So that's the moment where we have to wait and see if they will continue to develop this path because it seems to be the intention

I know, that's what I said it was! You people keep quoting me to make sure I know that you know that SSBE isn't as strong as Ultra Instinct without actually reading the words I'm saying.

[Lord Beerus]

Yeah, so I watched the film by [censored] [censored] [censored] and it was okay... in a vacuum. I don't think I'll be seeing this one in theatres as they were nothing that really piqued my interest narratively or visually. That movie was kind of what I feared it would be when I heard about the tone and read more and more about the plot... it felt like one of the filler episodes from the Super anime stretched out to 90 - 105 minute movie. Fun for what it is, but ultimately, inconsequential.

Some random thoughts:
- Piccolo and Pan's chemistry carry the film for me. It really does feel like the character dynamic that Toriyama has the most fun with is when Piccolo acts as a father/uncle figure to somebody.

- The inclusion of Goku, Vegeta, Broly, Cheelai, Lemo, Whis and Beerus in the movie was utterly pointless and added nothing to the movie. You could have easily cut out all the scenes featuring those characters from the film and missed nothing. I had a feeling those characters would be glorified cameos in this film, and that was the case. And it comes back to the point I made earlier about how this film feels like it's written in a vacuum. Broly, Cheelai and Lemo add nothing to the narrative. They only get screentime as a reminder to the audience that this movie takes place after DBS Broly. It's so haphazard. And proves to me that Toriyama had no significant plans for Broly, Cheelai or Lemo after Broly's reboot movie, but was most likely still suggested to include Broly (and Goku and Vegeta) in the movie for marketing reasons.

- The 3D animation was... serviceable. Appeared very fluid at times and quite stiff and janky on others. Some of the effects, like the explosions and backgrounds, looked really nice, but the visuals in general just couldn't really shake off the videogame cutscene vibe it had. DBSSH certainly has the best 3D animation Dragon Ball has ever gotten in any project by a country mile. But it's nowhere near the best 3D animated film to come from Japan in recent times, and it's not even the best 3D animated film Toei has produced.

- The fight scenes in general were a major step down from DBS Broly. They weren't bad, but just so run-of-the-mill. Nothing really popped out in terms of storyboarding or choreography. Nothing seems to flow as smooth as the fights in DBS Broly. And I certainly think it came down to the technology used for the 3D animation. When you see a 3D animated film like Lupin III: The First, you'll realise that 3D animated films in Japan are capable of producing insane levels of detail and fluidity in their scenes. If Dragon Ball is to dip its toe in 3D animation again, they should go to Marza Animation Planet for help, especially since Toei have worked with them before.

- Kinda underwhelmed by the soundtrack. Nothing really stood out for me and considering Naoki Satō's extensive CV, that was a massive letdown.

- Big Green Orange Piccolo looked HIDEOUS. Like something ripped right out of Dragon Ball Heroes. I hope I never see that form again. Ugh.

- Seeing Cell again depressed me. Especially as the endgame antagonist for the film. It really served as a damning indictment of the lack of faith Toriyama/Toei still has when it comes to creating new characters. The film had something good going with Gamma 1 and 2, they were funny, quirky and had an instantly interesting dynamic with the Gohan and Piccolo. I don't know why they could serve as the only major obstacle for the main cast throughout the film. Having Cell return just to have Gohan transform into a new form and kill him again, gave me the same feeling I had when Vegeta performed his Final Explosion technique in the anime version of the Tournament Of Power. It is meant to serve as this callback to a notable character and narrative beat from the manga, but it just comes as melodramatic and hamfisted because the context for why the scenario happened in the film doesn't bear the same emotional weight, drama or character development that was on full display when the same scenario originally happened in the manga. It's fanservice... and bad fanservice. And on that subject of fanservice...

- ...What in the flying dragon fuck was up with Gohan's rage boost transformation? I thought we were over this nonsense when Toei showed just how stupid that concept was when they did it with Future Trunks in the Goku Black arc. I guess not. I mean, rage boosts are Gohan's thing, but I thought Gohan developed beyond this. Because wasn't the whole crux of his Ultimate form in the Majin Boo arc was that all of his latent power was brought to the surface? That he didn't need to bother with transformations anymore because he could tap into all his dormant power at will? Elder Kai did a pretty shitty job of that, I suppose. I know that Bandai needs to sell more toys and cards for Dragon Ball Heroes and Toei needed transformations to generate revenue for Dokkan Battle but couldn't it have been less... I dunno... meme-ish? I would bet my house that Gohan Blanco is never seen again, though. But, hey, when all is said and done... at least this went somewhere.

- Goten, Trunks, Bulma, Krillin and #18 were... there. I feel bad for Goten and Trunks the most though. All those two dipshits amounted to were rehashed gags from the Majin Boo arc that wasn't all that funny to begin with. And the reason given in the movie for why they suddenly aged up was nonsense considering that Gohan and Future Trunks grew up regularly and didn't need to reach a certain age before getting sudden and great growth spurts.

- The humour was very hit and miss for me. As I mentioned before the failed/fat Gotenks gags did nothing for me. And I found Bulma's wish painfully unfunny. It's just more "Oh look at Bulma, she's so old and is comedically coping with getting older" kind of comedy that's never gotten a chuckle out of me. It was Piccolo, of all people, that got the biggest laughs from me. His dry wit and comedic timing were on point throughout the film. No wonder he's Toriyama's favourite character.

- I gave up on power scaling for Dragon Ball Super a long time ago, so I'm not touching that shit with a 20-inch pole.

- The post-credit scene was worthless.

6/10 - I will probably watch it again when it comes out on Blu-Ray or when it's released digitally, but probably won't watch it when it comes out to cinemas in the UK as it's not a priority for me to watch in the slightest. If DBS Broly was a fantastical theme park, then DBSSH was the McDonalds you stop at on the trip home from the theme park at the end of the day. Fine what it is, but not enough to truly satisfy you considering what you experienced before.

[fadeddreams5]

Some mad lad has actually uploaded the whole film (no subs) to YouTube in 4 parts with decent enough quality. Of course I won't post the link here but have at it while you can and of course support the official release. Can't wait to see this properly in theaters, there's a lot of dialogue and it seems like many references to the past, I'll at least keep that a surprise for myself.

I found it and watched it. Understood no words, but it's easy to know what's going on. This movie really felt like the most unoriginal fanfiction, and the battles were nowhere near on par with the Broly ones. That said...

Spoiler:

really badass looking transformation for Piccolo. Loved the design. Gohan's was...amazingly lazy, but I'm a Teen SSJ2 Gohan fan, so I'll take it. Cell Max was a poor man's Hirudegarn.

[ankokudaishogun]

a few notes:

Grandpa Piccolo real MC of the movie.

RPC stands for Red Pharmaceutical Corporation

Piccolo goes through SPECIFICALLY the Namek Potential Unleashing: Orange is basically Super Namek Piccolo.

Super Saiyan 2 Grade 2 Ultimate Gohan was a goddamn boring design.
Cell Max, too.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Summaries sound like fun. It’s like Bio-Broly but slightly more consequential since it actually changes the status quo. Humour seems to be pretty fun too.

For everybody talking about Pan flying. Babies are born knowing how to swim naturally, but without practice they can forget. Pan is no different: She only now started training after using this kind of power exactly once.

[Grimlock]

Forgot to say it, but Shenlong recognizes Piccolo for some reason. I don't know nor understand why, but he does, even calling him by his name. Maybe I'm missing/forgetting something.

[Kataphrut]

I'm not gonna watch it til an official release comes out, but I have peaked at some of the clips floating around. I really like the look of Gohan vs Gamma 1, it had some clever choreography. Also Piccolo Orange's debut is just missing 'It Has To Be This Way' playing over it.

I was excited by what I heard before and now I'm even more convinced. This one is gonna be good.