Deep Thoughts: The Saiyan Conflict (Ocean Dub)

[ABED]

Dead Zone (Ocean Dub)
There isn't much for me to say about this dub of the movie other than it's the superior dub of this movie. I've already done the review for it, so no reason to do so again. The dub is great and I wish this had been the philosophy of how to dub the series when it went in-house. Translation is an art, so I expect changes but this proves that it can be done and met with acclaim. It even came with a few light cuss words, like when Chichi says "What the hell do you want?" God, I was such an easy mark. Henderson is able to make Gohan sound cute during the insert song, whereas Nadolny's version makes me shudder. I don't want to come off as mean spirited, but there's just nothing cute or pleasant about her performance and it's only made worse with the replacement score. The only other thing I have to add is that I bought the VHS and then about a year later, my mom bought me the DVD. She was not in a good mood that day and asked why I couldn't just get the VHS as it was half as expensive. I can't remember if I told her I already had the VHS and wanted to upgrade or I lied.

The Saiyan Saga (Ocean Dub)
This is where I jumped aboard the Dragon Ball train. I've looked at the airdate and thought back to around that time and it seems coincidental, but I think I may have happened upon the first episode when it premiered in the US as opposed to seeing a rerun. The only reason it did catch my eye, or ear in this case is because I knew the names DBZ, Goku, and Gohan from having lived in Japan for a few years. I was 11 years old and flipping through the channels, back when kids did that sort of thing, and heard a voice call out the names Goku and Gohan. "I know those names" I thought, and I haven't stopped watching since. That's my secret origin, how about you?

I fell in love with the series right off the bat, but like my opinions on things like Batman 66, they've changed over the years. At first, I loved it. Then after reading some reviews, like Chris Psaros from DBZ Uncensored, and others who had more knowledge with the original than I did at the time, I thought "Yeah, this dub is terrible and Drummond sucks as Vegeta." Though, I still watched it religiously. I can't recall at what point I rewatched it and came to the conclusion that with a few exceptions, the voice acting is great. The dub scripts have some silly lines but the actors make chicken soup out of chicken feathers. There are a few voices that I would put one rung below the originals, such as Scott McNeil as Piccolo. What an awesome performance. Saffron Henderson is the best English speaking voice for Gohan and Goku hands down. She's so good that she's able to make a small but still noticeable distinction between Gohan at age 4/5 and in the Namek arc. I could go on and on with the cast and how great they really are. The only bad casting was Matt Smith as Tenshinhan. He tries too hard to sound tough and hits the goofy dialog too hard to make it actually work or at least make it sound less awful. Then there's Drummond who I think doesn't fit Vegeta, but it's an awesome performance for what it is, which is stereotypical Saturday Morning Cartoon evil. It works here but not as well as Vegeta starts to become more three dimensional. The rest of the cast are really good as well, but among the standouts for the side characters are David Squatch Ward as Ox-King, Alec Willows as Oolong, and Michael Dobson as Nappa. And last but not least is Jason Gray-Stanford as Raditz. I was so happy when I found out he played Randy Disher on Monk. It seems like no one else watched Monk as whenever I bring that up, I rarely get replies. Did no one watch Monk? You should, the show is so much fun and he's great in it. Also, Tony Shalhoub is a national treasure.

Something I used to dislike but I've come to not mind are the edits made to the show. Aside from euphemisms like "another dimension", which let's face it, death in DB ultimately is just another dimension, there are the stars to cover face hits, and paint jobs to cover blood and nudity. It took me an embarrassingly long time to notice the poor paint job. I also didn't notice the obvious differences in the Japanese and American footage for Power Rangers. The other big thing was the deleted scenes, and even whole episodes during this arc. Some of them were done for content, others were likely to bring down the episode count to fulfill the order. If memory serves, FUNimation received a first season order of 26 episodes. Even though this arc made the best use of filler, some of it was redundant, like having two episodes where Gohan loses a new friend and learns a lesson about loss and matures a little. Not only did two episodes have a similar story, they aired back to back. Of the two, keeping the one with the dinosaur was the better choice. DBZ has too much filler, and Kai cuts way too much during this arc, but the Ocean dub literally splits the difference. Last thing of note is that even with FUNi's editing, there was an episode they produced but one that didn't air during the initial run in syndication. It was kinda cool that they included it on the VHS and DVD release.

Ron Wasserman's score is good. I enjoy music but I don't know anything about it, but even I can clearly hear that he was the same person behind the Power Rangers score. The music that plays when Goku arrives in the nick of time to save Gohan from Nappa still gives me goosebumps. Rock The Dragon is catchy. It's enjoyable in the way that on the nose action cartoon theme songs often are. None of the replacement music was as good as the Ocean dub's was.

Random Thoughts:
A small issue I have with the Ocean dub is lines like Piccolo saying, "Sleep well my little friend" as soon as episode 5. It gives it away too soon.
Why did Popo shout "Kami-san!"?
I much prefer that Vegeta doesn't get hit and fall back to Earth in the same episode.
I dug the title card animation. It was a nice little piece of flair.
The intro to DBZ episode 1 takes footage from the oddest of sources, mostly movies 1 and 2. It's designed to show Goku going from kid to adult and say "the next generation has arrived." I wonder what the thought process was there.
Did anyone else recall a rumor that starting with the DVD release of "Destruction" (containing the episodes where Goku fights Vegeta), they would also include the subtitled original episodes? Sure enough it didn't happen, but I wonder if anyone else read it and where it started? How would that have even worked?

Home video:
There were three home video releases, the VHS, DVD, and Rock the Dragon set. The DVDs are just VHS with a menu and chapter breaks. The home videos kept the eyecatches they used in syndication which makes me feel nostalgic. Did they keep them for the Rock the Dragon Set? I'm glad I got the DVD's when I did as they didn't stay around much longer. I had the VHS already and was putting off buying the DVD's. Then when I started my first semester of college, my parents gave me a $50/week stipend. "So they gave you an allowance?" No, a stipend, they gave me a stipend. With my first stipend, instead of spending it on things I wanted such as textbooks, I bought the necessities like the DVD box set of "The Saiyan Conflict".

[8000 Saiyan]

Dave Ward as Ox-King is honestly a better performance than it had any right to be, since the Ox-King is such a minor character.

Aside from Matt Smith, I also find the Ocean Roshis to be quite painful. But hey, that's how I feel about every English Roshi. Most of them sound like a young guy trying to sound old.

Also, c'mon ABED. Batman 1966 is enjoyable.

[ABED]

Dave Ward as Ox-King is honestly a better performance than it had any right to be, since the Ox-King is such a minor character.

Aside from Matt Smith, I also find the Ocean Roshis to be quite painful. But hey, that's how I feel about every English Roshi. Most of them sound like a young guy trying to sound old.

Also, c'mon ABED. Batman 1966 is enjoyable.

I'd honestly put Ward above Gori for this one role.

I agree for the most part though I liked Corlette. He's the best of the dub Muten Roshi's.

Batman 66 is enjoyable. What I mean is that it's changed. I enjoyed it as a kid, then disliked it because Batman "must be dark!", then I grew to accept it. Now after having seen the series in its entirety, I think it's fine in small doses but the joke wears thin very quickly. It's definitely not meant to be binged.

[Super Sonic]

Dave Ward as Ox-King is honestly a better performance than it had any right to be, since the Ox-King is such a minor character.

Aside from Matt Smith, I also find the Ocean Roshis to be quite painful. But hey, that's how I feel about every English Roshi. Most of them sound like a young guy trying to sound old.

Also, c'mon ABED. Batman 1966 is enjoyable.

Very much so. Though will say in hindsight Roshi is now voiced by an old guy due to the passage of time. McFarland, Schemmel, Sabat, and Hebert are around 50 now.

And speaking of minor characters, recall Puar was voiced by Cathy Weseluk who is known for Spike the Dragon on My Little Pony and a Canadian cartoon called Cybersix that I don't know if it aired stateside, but my Canuck friends love. Would you say prefer her performance there or in DBZ?

[8000 Saiyan]

Honestly, they both work.

I remember reading an interview with Gen Fukunaga where he said that they originally cast another voice actor for Vegeta, but he was busy, so Brian Drummond was cast instead.

Also, one of the things that I love about Henderson's Gohan is how it sounds like an actual boy. Nadolny sounds so wrong in the part, and Clinkenbeard sounds a little feminine at times.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Honestly, they both work.

I remember reading an interview with Gen Fukunaga where he said that they originally cast another voice actor for Vegeta, but he was busy, so Brian Drummond was cast instead.

Also, one of the things that I love about Henderson's Gohan is how it sounds like an actual boy. Nadolny sounds so wrong in the part, and Clinkenbeard sounds a little feminine at times.

Honestly, i think that Nadolny worked better as Kid Goku in OG DB. Her voice just didn't fit Gohan's characterization, especially his initial timid, crybaby-ness before his training under Piccolo.

[MasenkoHA]

. Henderson is able to make Gohan sound cute during the insert song, whereas Nadolny's version makes me shudder. I don't want to come off as mean spirited, but there's just nothing cute or pleasant about her performance and it's only made worse with the replacement score.

Yes, Saffron Henderson is by far the best English voice that Gohan ever had and this movie in particular is a highlight of her performance.

While I don't mind Nadolny too much in this era of the dub, where she's just using her Goku voice for Gohan, she's really terrible here and the voice doesn't work at all. The performance is tolerable for Gohan the Warrior but at this point Gohan is supposed to be cute and sheltered and Nadolny's performance doesn't convey that in the slightest.

. The only reason it did catch my eye, or ear in this case is because I knew the names DBZ, Goku, and Gohan from having lived in Japan for a few years. I was 11 years old and flipping through the channels, back when kids did that sort of thing, and heard a voice call out the names Goku and Gohan. "I know those names" I thought, and I haven't stopped watching since. That's my secret origin, how about you?

I wish my Dragon Ball origin story was that interesting. It was prettt much it was a show I knew of because it aired on Cartoon Network where I was already watching Sailor Moon, Batma the animated series, Dexter's Lab, and Hanna Babera and Looney Tunes reruns.

. There are a few voices that I would put one rung below the originals, such as Scott McNeil as Piccolo

No disrespect to Mr. Furukawa but I think McNeil was even better.

.

The only bad casting was Matt Smith as Tenshinhan. He tries too hard to sound tough and hits the goofy dialog too hard to make it actually work or at least make it sound less awful.

It's clear Funimation and Ocean had no idea what to do with Tenshinhan since they skipped his relevant part of the story and the direction and his performance suffers. He's generic tough action guy.

Something I used to dislike but I've come to not mind are the edits made to the show. Aside from euphemisms like "another dimension", which let's face it, death in DB ultimately is just another dimension,

The next dimension stuff doesn't bother me. I would have prefered they use Other World but the point still got across. Even as a 6/7 year old casually watching DBZ I understood this Goku guy was dead. He had a halo over his head!!

All the civilians weren't killed by Nappa and got away was the worst of the editing in season 1

The other big thing was the deleted scenes, and even whole episodes during this arc. Some of them were done for content, others were likely to bring down the episode count to fulfill the order. If memory serves, FUNimation received a first season order of 26 episodes. Even though this arc made the best use of filler, some of it was redundant, like having two episodes where Gohan loses a new friend and learns a lesson about loss and matures a little. Not only did two episodes have a similar story, they aired back to back. Of the two, keeping the one with the dinosaur was the better choice. DBZ has too much filler, and Kai cuts way too much during this arc, but the Ocean dub literally splits the difference. Last thing of note is that even with FUNi's editing, there was an episode they produced but one that didn't air during the initial run in syndication. It was kinda cool that they included it on the VHS and DVD release.

Honestly if it wasn't for the over the top censorship (which isnt too bad until Vegeta and Nappa arrive on earth) and Wasserman's music being vastly inferior to Kikuchi I think the Ocean dub of the Saiyan saga could have been the best version of it. Like you said it splits the difference between Kai's more brisk pacing but sometimes too brisk and Uncut Z's more stretched out presentation. The benefits of both and the downside of neither.


Ron Wasserman's score is good. I enjoy music but I don't know anything about it, but even I can clearly hear that he was the same person behind the Power Rangers score. The music that plays when Goku arrives in the nick of time to save Gohan from Nappa still gives me goosebumps. Rock The Dragon is catchy. It's enjoyable in the way that on the nose action cartoon theme songs often are. None of the replacement music was as good as the Ocean dub's was.

Random Thoughts:
A small issue I have with the Ocean dub is lines like Piccolo saying, "Sleep well my little friend" as soon as episode 5. It gives it away too soon.

I noticed Funimation went out of their way to make Piccolo a lot nicer to Gohan. I wonder if BS&P concerns that Piccolo was too cruel led to that?

[ABED]

That's odd. I've heard people say that for years about Nadolny and I'm the exact opposite. I find her Gohan mostly tolerable, whereas I can't watch the DB dub if I have to listen to her. She's insufferable as Goku.

I agree that Clinkenbeard can sound a tad too feminine for Gohan but she's a good actress and enjoyable in the role. If I can't get Henderson, Clinkbenbeard is the next best.

No disrespect to Mr. Furukawa but I think McNeil was even better.

That's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard that opinion before. I like both a lot and feel both actors in this role are the or among the best bits of casting DBZ ever had in any language.

[90sDBZ]

I've got a huge amount of nostalgic fondness for this version of these particular episodes.

I'd been a fan of Power Rangers for some time before seeing DBZ, so I immediately recognized and appreciated the Ron Wasserman score. It really fit the heroic vibe Funimation were going for, and it also sounded very dark at times, which fit this era of the show perfectly.

Corlett's Goku was awesome from day 1, and sounded incredibly natural. I also loved how unhinged Drummond made Vegeta sound, especially during his fight with Goku.

The Kamehameha vs Galick Gun scene still gives me chills in this version unlike any other. It's basically perfect; Drummond's maniacal laughter and screaming, Corlett's delivery of "This isn't good! I still haven't recovered from the last attack!", the music, and the echo affect added to the screaming.

Scott McNeil's Piccolo was incredible as others have said.

Saffron Henderson is a great Gohan.

Even Terry Klassen was on point as Krillin in these episodes.

I've actually come to weirdly enjoy some of the goofy censorship too. "Too bad it's Sunday, those buildings would've been full tomorrow", "I can see their parachutes", and "He destroyed the cargo bot" still make me chuckle. And then there's other lines like "We'll have to have you wormed Nappa", "Being a good fiend is like being a photographer", and "Who's face is ugly?!". I genuinly love all these corny jokes, and they make the small moments so much more memorable.

[8000 Saiyan]

Just hearing 90s DBZ talking about Drummond's Vegeta's maniacal laughter makes me believe he'd do a great Joker.

[TheGreatness25]

To save a giant dissertation of a love letter to this, I'll just say that to this day, this is my favorite portion of the series' dubs. I find it amazing that the vocal cast--who was inexperienced in their own right--that was placed on the project first remains unsurpassed to this day (to me, of course). While I can appreciate and acknowledge that many of the replacement actors found their groove and have really put in a great performance for the characters since the Ocean Group, I still prefer many (or even, dare I say, most) of the Ocean Group's actors over Funimation's.

This version of the dub wasn't faithful, but that was not on the actors. Goku's superhero portrayal fell on the Funimation script writers and directors. The censorship fell on the networks' standards and practices at the time. The portions that were cut out was on Funimation once again. But despite all of that, this was still the most enjoyable dub experience that I've had with this series. And to this day, when I hear the actors in other works, I get excited.

But with that said, this was certainly not Dragon Ball Z, but a Funimation presentation using Toei's footage and characters. Characters were altered, stories were changed, and the entire tone was different than the original. I felt that even the early Dragon Ball stuff that Funimation did (also using the Ocean Group) was much, much more in-line with the series than the "super hardcore action tubular Zeeee, man!"

But, as I like to say, I welcome the changes. We have the original version for that faithful representation and experience. The more changes and oddities that the dub(s) has, the more incentive there is for me to watch and feel like a different experience. This is a much, much different sentiment than I had back in 1998 when it was unfathomable that we'd legally have access to the original. When all we had was the chopped up unfaithful dub with the replacement score, my feelings were a lot different. But, since I have "the real" version at my disposal to enjoy whenever I want (professionally translated, no less), then I'm perfectly fine with the... bastardized version, for lack of a better expression.

And while I always found the replacement score to be pretty lacking, Rock the Dragon is dope. Not the repetitive vocals, but the music itself is enjoyable.

[ABED]

I wanna point out that what people refer to here as "censorship" isn't actually censorship. It's Network Standards and Practices. Censorship only pertains to government action. I don't like conflating the two.

But, as I like to say, I welcome the changes. We have the original version for that faithful representation and experience. The more changes and oddities that the dub(s) has, the more incentive there is for me to watch and feel like a different experience.

I'm not a fan of this view at all, sorry. "Change it all you want, that makes me want to watch the original." No, please don't change the story. Adapt it for a different country but don't change things just because we have the original.

[TheGreatness25]

I wanna point out that what people refer to here as "censorship" isn't actually censorship. It's Network Standards and Practices. Censorship only pertains to government action. I don't like conflating the two.

But, as I like to say, I welcome the changes. We have the original version for that faithful representation and experience. The more changes and oddities that the dub(s) has, the more incentive there is for me to watch and feel like a different experience.

I'm not a fan of this view at all, sorry. "Change it all you want, that makes me want to watch the original." No, please don't change the story. Adapt it for a different country but don't change things just because we have the original.

I respect that you feel this way, but on a personal level, I'm much more inclined to watch three versions of the series if they're totally different rather than if it's the same thing with three different voices.

[MasenkoHA]

I wanna point out that what people refer to here as "censorship" isn't actually censorship. It's Network Standards and Practices. Censorship only pertains to government action. I don't like conflating the two.

This is one of those situations where I think the colloquialism is understood though. Nobody actually thinks the U.S government forced these changes and edits.

And network standards and practices works when addressing these two seasons and the later stuff that Funimation dubbed in-house and edited for Cartoon Network but how else would we address the stuff Funimation did that remained in the "uncut" dub they released on home video.

Things like Goku offering old Kaioshin an earth woman he can feel up being changed to offering to get him a kiss from a earth woman or Goku being obsessed with talking about Bulma's "butt chest" being changed to obsessing over her not having a tail weren't done because of network standards and practices, they existed in the dubs unedited form and I think describing it as self imposed censorship is as good of a descriptor than anything.

[ABED]

I wanna point out that what people refer to here as "censorship" isn't actually censorship. It's Network Standards and Practices. Censorship only pertains to government action. I don't like conflating the two.

This is one of those situations where I think the colloquialism is understood though. Nobody actually thinks the U.S government forced these changes and edits.

And network standards and practices works when addressing these two seasons and the later stuff that Funimation dubbed in-house and edited for Cartoon Network but how else would we address the stuff Funimation did that remained in the "uncut" dub they released on home video.

Things like Goku offering old Kaioshin an earth woman he can feel up being changed to offering to get him a kiss from a earth woman or Goku being obsessed with talking about Bulma's "butt chest" being changed to obsessing over her not having a tail weren't done because of network standards and practices, they existed in the dubs unedited form and I think describing it as self imposed censorship is as good of a descriptor than anything.

With all due respect, it's a term that has been bastardized and thus misunderstood due to people conflating the two ideas. It's like how people misunderstand the concept of free speech. There are people who believe that an individual or company setting the terms of their property and not allowing certain speech or content is morally the same as the government doing so.

Anyway, I've said my piece on the subject. I'll drop it.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

This dub is an interesting case, as has been said it is not the same show TOEI created by adapting Akira Toriyama's manga, instead it is Funimation's interpretation of said source material from the perspective of how they wanted to present it to the American market. That said this dub is very well executed, and if it was an American cartoon it would be an enjoyable Saturday morning serial in its own right.

I know this dub is often referred to as "the Ocean dub", because it features the voice cast most prominently associated with Ocean Productions in Vancouver, but I prefer the term "Funimation's edited English dub", because yes, while its a bit more wordy it does describe exactly what this dub is without disregarding Funimation's input in favour of Oceans. Also worth noting this dub was the only edited version of the Saiyan arc until Kai, as the uncut equivalent of these episodes of Dragon Ball Z can only be found with the inhouse cast that Funimation later hired when they chose to cease outsourcing the voicework to Canada.

I also tend to refer to this dub as "the original US English dub" because it wasn't the first English dub of Dragon Ball Z, as Creative Product Corp's dub, which was recorded and aired in the Philippines dates back to 1993, although much of it has been lost to time, so its understandable that not everyone would be aware of it.

It's a shame that an uncut version of these first 2 seasons with the Ocean cast was never recorded. Fans who grew up with Dragon Ball Z in the late 90s and early 2000s in English-speaking countries would have been familiar with this version of the show, as it was what premiered on all the various TV channels around the world (Fox, UPN, WB affiliated syndicates in USA, Cartoon Network in the UK, Ireland and Netherlands, Kanaal 2 in Belgium, SubTV in Finland, Network Ten in Australia, TV3 in New Zealand), and naturally we are more forgiving of the liberties these episodes took with changing characters, cutting episodes and replacing the music. Conversely a lot of newer fans would be put off by all those changes, despite the voice cast being great.

All of the Ocean cast were at the top of their game in these episodes. Brian Drummond, who had extremely vague direction brought a larger-than-life personae to Vegeta with his insane screams and charismatic performance. Scott McNeil got the demonic side of Piccolo perfectly, you just knew this was a character you didn't want to be messing with, even if, like Gohan he did help you become stronger. Of course Saffron Henderson gave us that sweet, innocent voice for Gohan that felt believably male. Ian James Corlett, a fine voice for the heroic version of Goku Funimation was going for. Don Brown captured Kaio-sama's gravitas without it feeling too jokey. I could go on all day, but the voices were just fantastic. Even Terry Klassen, whose performance as Roshi and Kuririn is generally not well regarded I thought put in solid performances for characters that weren't very well defined without the full context of what we learn about them in original Dragon Ball.

Ron Wasserman (credited as Shuki Levi) composed a great score for these episodes that was incredibly foreboding, which worked well for an arc that felt like doomsday approaching the further you get into it, and had an edgy feel without going overboard. It could be a bit repetitive at times, although the same can be said for most Dragon Ball scores, even the master Shunsuke Kikuchi.

I have many great memories of watching this dub when I briefly lived in the US in late 1999, as well as early 2000 when it first aired here in Ireland and received many marathons on Cartoon Network, no doubt due to the overwhelming success it had upon its introduction, which led to the series being on said channel and its associated sister channels CNX and Toonami for years on end until 2005 (as an adult that timespan wouldn't feel very long but as a kid it felt like an eternity, albeit a good one because I got to watch the show so much with all the free time I had).

I felt that even the early Dragon Ball stuff that Funimation did (also using the Ocean Group) was much, much more in-line with the series than the "super hardcore action tubular Zeeee, man!"

That dub of original Dragon Ball episodes 1-13 does use the voice cast most commonly associated with Ocean Productions, but the company really had no involvement at this point, as they were recorded at Dick & Rodgers Studio with post-production by BLT and/ or Josanne B Lovick Productions. Fun fact about when Funimation got around to dubbing Dragon Ball Z is that these first 53 episodes are the only time any Dragon Ball was recorded at Ocean's main studio until Kai.

[AlexSketchy04]

The intro to DBZ episode 1 takes footage from the oddest of sources, mostly movies 1 and 2. It's designed to show Goku going from kid to adult and say "the next generation has arrived." I wonder what the thought process was there.

That clip comes from a Dragon Ball Z Test dub produced with the same crew from the Dragon Ball 1995 dub, the narrator in that clip is the same as the one in that dub.

I can imagine that the clip was the intro for that test dub, or that it was some sort of internal promotional video/pitch for DBZ that for some reason was included in the Arrival DVD's