"Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

[Scientist Fu]

Those people are hyperboling, imo. DBS Goku is way more laid-back and carefree than dumb, while DBZ Goku takes things more seriously, which is why people prefer DBZ over DBS.

[super michael]

Those people are hyperboling, imo. DBS Goku is way more laid-back and carefree than dumb, while DBZ Goku takes things more seriously, which is why people prefer DBZ over DBS.

Goku is more laid back in DBS, which there is nothing wrong with that. However Goku is incredibly stupid and irresponsible in DBS anime.

The episode of Beerus in a costume was all about Goku stupidity. They couldn't have Goku think he knew all along, he was truly stupid.

In DBS Super Heroes Goku was a total amateur at training, which doesn't make any sense at all. Goku is a expert.
There Broly who doesn't understand why being calm is good or meditation, but no they have to make Goku stupid for no reason.


DB/DBZ = expert at training. Watch Goku train in the ROSAT and how he gained SSJ Grade 2/3.



DBZ Vegeta was the stupid one, while DBZ Goku was smart.
DBS their roles has been changed.

[ABED]

How was Goku more "serious" in DBZ? Don't list a bunch of moments, just boil it down to essentials.

[super michael]

In the ToP Goku couldn't react to someone attacking him, since his guard was so down. Knowing he was the target, he still left his guard down way too much. Goku did it again in the ToP and again.

In Dragon Ball the only time he let his guard down was against Piccolo, since he thought Piccolo was KO. On Namek while his focus was on Ginyu, he could react to Jeice sneak attack.

Goku getting pissed of at C17 was dumb, there was no reason for his reaction. On Namek Goku goal was to humilate Freeza for what he did to Krillin. Make Freeza swallow his pride, by being beaten by a Saiyan at his best.

[ABED]

For someone who hates Super, you remember an awful lot.

[super michael]

For someone who hates Super, you remember an awful lot.

Just because I can remember DBS episodes, it doesn't mean anything if it is good or bad. It just helps when it comes to debates that is all.

There are members that thinks DB/DBZ Goku = DBS Goku which is wrong in many ways.
Same with Chi Chi some member thinks Buu Saga Chi Chi = DBS Chi Chi which is wrong. DBS Chi Chi is worse than DBZ Chi Chi.
How Goten and Trunks were written was horrible, not allowed to fight in invasion, not allowed to spar with their family, not allowed to train on other planets, keeping secrets, etc. Luckily they are no longer doing that which is good.

DBS just by doing pathetic training or training with weakling, they somehow gained huge power boost. Freeza beating Tagoma for 4 months, Buu training with Mr Satan, C17 beating poachers, etc.

[Scientist Fu]

Those people are hyperboling, imo. DBS Goku is way more laid-back and carefree than dumb, while DBZ Goku takes things more seriously, which is why people prefer DBZ over DBS.

Goku is more laid back in DBS, which there is nothing wrong with that. However Goku is incredibly stupid and irresponsible in DBS anime.

The episode of Beerus in a costume was all about Goku stupidity. They couldn't have Goku think he knew all along, he was truly stupid.

In DBS Super Heroes Goku was a total amateur at training, which doesn't make any sense at all. Goku is a expert.
There Broly who doesn't understand why being calm is good or meditation, but no they have to make Goku stupid for no reason.


DB/DBZ = expert at training. Watch Goku train in the ROSAT and how he gained SSJ Grade 2/3.



DBZ Vegeta was the stupid one, while DBZ Goku was smart.
DBS their roles has been changed.

It's probably true for the anime (can't remember much of it), but I do remember clearly this episode where he can't recognize Beerus who wears a costume of Monaka. But I don't recall Goku being dumb in the manga or stupid enough for me to remember about it.

[super michael]

Those people are hyperboling, imo. DBS Goku is way more laid-back and carefree than dumb, while DBZ Goku takes things more seriously, which is why people prefer DBZ over DBS.

Goku is more laid back in DBS, which there is nothing wrong with that. However Goku is incredibly stupid and irresponsible in DBS anime.

The episode of Beerus in a costume was all about Goku stupidity. They couldn't have Goku think he knew all along, he was truly stupid.

In DBS Super Heroes Goku was a total amateur at training, which doesn't make any sense at all. Goku is a expert.
There Broly who doesn't understand why being calm is good or meditation, but no they have to make Goku stupid for no reason.


DB/DBZ = expert at training. Watch Goku train in the ROSAT and how he gained SSJ Grade 2/3.



DBZ Vegeta was the stupid one, while DBZ Goku was smart.
DBS their roles has been changed.

It's probably true for the anime (can't remember much of it), but I do remember clearly this episode where he can't recognize Beerus who wears a costume of Monaka. But I don't recall Goku being dumb in the manga or stupid enough for me to remember about it.

I don't have any problem with DBS Manga at all, my only issue is with DBS Anime.

[ABED]

For someone who hates Super, you remember an awful lot.

Just because I can remember DBS episodes, it doesn't mean anything if it is good or bad. It just helps when it comes to debates that is all.

There are members that thinks DB/DBZ Goku = DBS Goku which is wrong in many ways.
Same with Chi Chi some member thinks Buu Saga Chi Chi = DBS Chi Chi which is wrong. DBS Chi Chi is worse than DBZ Chi Chi.
How Goten and Trunks were written was horrible, not allowed to fight in invasion, not allowed to spar with their family, not allowed to train on other planets, keeping secrets, etc. Luckily they are no longer doing that which is good.

DBS just by doing pathetic training or training with weakling, they somehow gained huge power boost. Freeza beating Tagoma for 4 months, Buu training with Mr Satan, C17 beating poachers, etc.

The training stuff isn't bad writing. That's not drama. What you're talking about is plot and exposition which isn't what makes it good or bad. Lore doesn't matter. Training when done well has a dramatic purpose, not exposition. Dragon Ball has a history of ridiculous power boosts. That's not particular to Super and it doesn't matter anyways.

The question is about "serious Goku". How is Goku in Super less serious than in DB/DBZ?

[dva_raza]

It's more than valid to point out if a character is acting in a way you believe is inorganic. I agree, that Goku not understanding the value of meditation is out of character by that point.
Vegeta has to explain to Goku the secret to Jiren's power - he's not actually that much stronger, but he has no wasted motion. The whole idea behind Ultra Instinct is THAT.

I had said this on another thread. Basically I think it's worth noting that it's not just that they wrote some dumb line for Goku, Vegeta acting like he's speaking some grand observation he made looks so amazingly stupid when everything he says is the exact same thing Whis had explained to them when he introduced them to UI.

As well as Whis saying Goku “didn’t get” something he had previously set Goku as an example of. Why would Goku suddenly not get the very thing that according to Whis himself is the reason for which he is always ahead of Vegeta..?

I never complain about Super’s lighter tone but there’s a difference between writing under a lighter tone and being straight up incoherent.
This is why this pisses me off in particular, cause the contradiction wasn't because they forgot. The fact they actually forced a scenario to be able to pander to Vegetas fans is fucking embarrassing and anybody laughing it off are wrong. If there was a time to be critical about writing it was here. At the very least nothing wrong with people actually noticing how absurd and insulting this was.

So disappointing, cause I thought Toriyama didn’t care about pleasing fans or something.

And please don’t anybody say this wasn’t done to make Vegeta look like the more competent one and ultimately win the challenge, cause that’s honestly made explicit as fuck.

Oh and the kissing scene makes no sense either. If it was a joke, I didn’t get it. It's just blatantly absurd.
Coincidently that one also includes Vegeta, so it's starting to feel like Goku saying nonsense to serve as cue for Vegeta to look iike the normal/smart one is what their dynamic is gonna be all about now.

[ABED]

It's more than valid to point out if a character is acting in a way you believe is inorganic. I agree, that Goku not understanding the value of meditation is out of character by that point.
Vegeta has to explain to Goku the secret to Jiren's power - he's not actually that much stronger, but he has no wasted motion. The whole idea behind Ultra Instinct is THAT.

I had said this exactly on another thread. Basically I think it's worth noting that it's not just that they wrote some dumb line for Goku, Vegeta acting it he is speaking some grandiose observed he made looks so amazingly stupid when everything he says the exact thing Whis explained to them when he introduced them to UI.
As well as Whis saying Goku “didn’t get” something he had previously set Goku as an example of.

Why would Goku suddenly not get the very thing that according to Whis himself is the reason for which he is always ahead of Vegeta?

I never complain about Super’s lighter tone but there’s a difference between writing under a lighter tone and being straight up incoherent.

This is why this pisses me off in particular, cause the contradiction wasn't because they forgot. The fact they actually forced a scenario to be able to pander to Vegetas fans is fucking embarrassing and anybody laughing it off are wrong.
If there was a time to be critical about writing it was here. At the very least nothing wrong with people actually noticing how absurd and insulting this was.
So disappointing, cause I thought Toriyama didn’t care about pleasing fans or something.

And please don’t anybody say this wasn’t done to make Vegeta look like the more competent one and ultimately win the challenge, cause that’s honestly made explicit as fuck.

Oh and the kissing scene makes no sense either. If it was a joke, I didn’t get it. It's just blatantly absurd.
Coincidently that one also includes Vegeta, so it's starting to feel like Goku saying nonsense to serve as cue for Vegeta to look iike the normal/smart one is what their dynamic is gonna be all about now.

Shows that go beyond a natural endpoint find themselves doing this quite often. Goku had become such an expert, that in order to give him something to do, he had to regress. This is a BIG reason I'm not a fan of so many of these revivals we've been getting. Characters are either stuck where we last saw them even after a decade or more, and some are regressed so they can get an arc.

Vegeta and Goku seem to switch places, but really it's because Vegeta still has further to go in his development, not because the writers are pandering to a particular fandom. I like where the direction he's going in, but Goku is taking several steps back.

[Scientist Fu]

It's more than valid to point out if a character is acting in a way you believe is inorganic. I agree, that Goku not understanding the value of meditation is out of character by that point.
Vegeta has to explain to Goku the secret to Jiren's power - he's not actually that much stronger, but he has no wasted motion. The whole idea behind Ultra Instinct is THAT.

Oh and the kissing scene makes no sense either. If it was a joke, I didn’t get it. It's just blatantly absurd.
Coincidently that one also includes Vegeta, so it's starting to feel like Goku saying nonsense to serve as cue for Vegeta to look iike the normal/smart one is what their dynamic is gonna be all about now.

About the kissing scene, I had seen someone say that Goku was not referring to the kiss but to Trunks who put the senzu bean from mouth to mouth and therefore he didn't understand why he did that. So, hmm... yeah... I don't know how true is that, but I thought it could be interesting to share it in here.

[90sDBZ]

I think another reason why Goku feels different in Super is his lack of emotional reaction to things happening.

In Z he repeatedly made reckless choices, but at least there were moments were you could see felt the gravity of the situation. He was visibly terrified of Raditz, expressed doubt that he could beat Vegeta and Frieza,
admitted outright he couldn't beat Cell beforehand, and was too afraid to fight Super Buu without Fusion.

In Super he'll fight anyone at any given moment regardless of how strong they are. There are moments were he'll look serious one minute, only to go back to looking way too happy right after. His confidence feels too unshakable to the point of him coming off as arrogant. I first noticed this in BoG were he seems way too cocky against Beerus from the getgo.

[dva_raza]

Vegeta and Goku seem to switch places, but really it's because Vegeta still has further to go in his development, not because the writers are pandering to a particular fandom. I like where the direction he's going in, but Goku is taking several steps back.

I think fans reaction to Vegeta getting a “win” of a fight they didn’t even see on screen speaks for itself.
Toei is aware of the fans obsession to have Vegeta win against Goku/defeat a main villain, and they delivered just that.

If it was about making Vegeta grow I don’t see why they need to do that at the expense of the MC. They could've made him learn something new and also not make Goku look like he had a stroke in that scene.

About the kissing scene, I had seen someone say that Goku was not referring to the kiss but to Trunks who put the senzu bean from mouth to mouth and therefore he didn't understand why he did that.

That’s what I wanted to think but I don't see how it makes sense when in the manga Vegeta does explicitly say the word “kiss” following the “you never done that before?”. To which Goku replies “of course not!” lmao.

[Scientist Fu]

About the kissing scene, I had seen someone say that Goku was not referring to the kiss but to Trunks who put the senzu bean from mouth to mouth and therefore he didn't understand why he did that.

That’s what I wanted to think but I don't see how it makes sense when in the manga Vegeta does explicitly say the word “kiss” following the “you never done that before?”. To which Goku replies “of course not!” lmao.

Ah... welp, we can't save that scene then, haha.

[ABED]

Vegeta and Goku seem to switch places, but really it's because Vegeta still has further to go in his development, not because the writers are pandering to a particular fandom. I like where the direction he's going in, but Goku is taking several steps back.

I think fans reaction to Vegeta getting a “win” of a fight they didn’t even see on screen speaks for itself.
Toei is aware of the fans obsession to have Vegeta win against Goku/defeat a main villain, and they delivered just that.

If it was about making Vegeta grow I don’t see why they need to do that at the expense of the MC. They could've made him learn something new and also not make Goku look like he had a stroke in that scene.

About the kissing scene, I had seen someone say that Goku was not referring to the kiss but to Trunks who put the senzu bean from mouth to mouth and therefore he didn't understand why he did that.

That’s what I wanted to think but I don't see how it makes sense when in the manga Vegeta does explicitly say the word “kiss” following the “you never done that before?”. To which Goku replies “of course not!” lmao.

These stories are designed to be crowd pleasers. It's a good thing to be aware of what the audience is responding to, and in this case, it makes sense to give Vegeta more to do as he has more places to go. He's a very flexible character who was already on this sort of path prior to Super.

Vegeta's growth didn't require Goku to regress. The two aren't linked. It may seem that way, but Vegeta's growth isn't dependent on Goku regressing. Regression is typical in revivals.

In Super he'll fight anyone at any given moment regardless of how strong they are. There are moments were he'll look serious one minute, only to go back to looking way too happy right after. His confidence feels too unshakable to the point of him coming off as arrogant. I first noticed this in BoG were he seems way too cocky against Beerus from the getgo.

He does the same in Dragon Ball. In Super let's look at his opponents. Beerus is a destroyer sure, but he's also out to fight Goku because he wants a good fight. It's the sort of thing Goku loves. He's not some malicious force out to destroy for personal gain.
Freeza he's already defeated.
The tournaments were often jovial in nature.
He's serious against Zamasu and Black when the stakes get serious.
The tournament of power is a tournament. The stakes are high, but lets not forget that the same was true of the Tenkaichi Budokai.

[jamiljamtheman]

I’d like to add to this that the sentiment expressed by these kinds of comments is part of what made me stop watching UnrealEntGaming’s fan-manga stories.

It’s ultimately because of the awful writing, and part of that was that he seemed to frequently put his own opinions about dragon ball characters into the “dialogue” of the stories. I definitely remember many lines of dialogue like “Goku, this is your problem, you don’t have the will to kill” or “you need to take your enemies seriously” or some garden-variety “Goku should go back to serious perceived-Z Goku in this DBS fan story” schlock.

It’s content made for these kind of commenters, and it’s badly written to boot.

[WittyUsername]

I will never understand why so many fans are in love with the idea of Vegeta surpassing Goku, or getting to “win” against him (even though he technically won both of his fights against Goku in the original manga). Dragon Ball is just about the one franchise I can think of where fans seem actively opposed to letting the main character be the main character, and Super Hero feels like an attempt to pander to that crowd.

[dva_raza]

I will never understand why so many fans are in love with the idea of Vegeta surpassing Goku, or getting to “win” against him (even though he technically won both of his fights against Goku in the original manga). Dragon Ball is just about the one franchise I can think of where fans seem actively opposed to letting the main character be the main character, and Super Hero feels like an attempt to pander to that crowd.

Every word of that is my exact impression. The 'Vegeta needing to defeat Goku or a main villain' fan sentiment was already weird and conflicting to me, but now this movie came out and everyone is gloating about the post-credits scene.. and then Chris Stuckman ecstatically says how "everyone in his theater clapped”...? Why tho? It's just incomprehensible that this is the majority of opinion...

Shouldn't it be Goku the one to beat Vegeta for a change? Like you say Goku didn't exactly defeat Vegeta other than just collectively taking him down, barely. One on one Vegeta was already much superior to Goku. So why is this movie acting like this was some long-awaited score setteling Vegeta needed?

It was already annoying how loud the fans would project all of this everywhere, but I used to feel kinda "safe" because I read somewhere that Toriyama doesn't care about fan's desires and in fact likes to go against them, which I found to be fantastic cause I respect that.

The fact that Toei, Toriyama or whoever finally gave in to this illogical whim is very disappointing.

[ABED]

I think Toriyama was being facetious when he said that. There's truth in that he doesn't pander to certain fan demands, but he does care about entertaining the audience. If he didn't he wouldn't have changed the story from a Journey to the West parody into something that would sell better.

Vegeta didn't win the second fight. The fight was called off to deal with Majin Buu and Vegeta hit Goku with a cheap shot from behind. That doesn't count.