Grimlock wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:22 pm
But if you want me to say something, then here it is: Dragon Ball is a badly aged series. It did have three sagas with a plot (Pliaf saga, Red Ribbon saga and Piccolo Daimaoh saga), but it also had three tournaments. Not a good balance. In this scenario, it should've been just one tournament max. Also, the fact that Dragon Ball had three tournaments doesn't justify Dragon Ball Super having two in a row, in a total of three sagas. It's the epitome of unbalanced.
And Z had 4 "evil villain wants to conquer the earth/universe " plots in a row. So? Dragon Ball has pretty much always had 3 plots
1. Find the dragon balls 2. Stop the evilest of evil and most powerful foe yet from destroying the world/universe/multiverse 3. Tournaments. Often with a mixing of at least 2 of these.
I don't know why you think "there is a tournament so there is no plot" they all have plots. Really simple plots but all of Dragon Ball is pretty simple plots. The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc is ultimately just the "Evil villain wants to conquer the earth" story that you seem to think is the only valid kind of plot, Piccolo is just using the tournament setting as an excuse because pre-redemption Piccolo is an unnecessarily extra and theatrical mofo.
There is no reason to only do one tournament arc in pre-Saiyan Dragon Ball, especially when the tournaments exist to show Goku's progress and give him a tangible goal for his broader goal of "becoming stronger"
There's a lot of things about pre-Saiyan Dragon Ball that haven't aged well (namely how it treats minorities) but " oh my god it had 3 tournament arcs" is far from one of them.
I don't know. I thought we were talking about Dragon Ball. For Dragon Ball, a tournament indicates a lack of effort and creativity because it has proven, many times, it can do more than that (hell, even games are proving that too).
Why does a tournament indicate a lack of effort? Does Z doing the Daimao plot four times indicate a lack of effort? (I don't think it does but if we're using your logic)
It's like your aversed to the fact that Dragon Ball is *gasp* a martial arts series.
. But that is not the case. Dragon Ball Super had two tournaments for just one saga with a plot. That's crap
Universe 6 saga- Universe 6 and 7 have a tournament to see who gets to use the Super Dragon Balls
ToP saga- The universes compete in a battle royale to be the last universe standing
Those are the plots. Saying if it's a tournament it doesn't have a plot is completely asinine.
, it doesn't make sense for Dragon Ball to be all about tournaments. Dragon Ball is not about tournaments, it is but an aspect of it, not the crux of it. I hope you can tell the difference. Also, all those sagas feature martial arts, so do we really need tournaments? Are we really that desperate just to see fights?
It's not that we need tournaments, its that your whole stance that their existence represents some sort of failure in the material is complete nonsense. Also let's break it down, for simplicity sake I'm ignoring GT and the retellings and the filler arcs and just focusing on the original Dragon Ball manga and the original Super plots
Pilaf- Find all the Dragon Balls
21st Tenkaichi Budokai- Tournament
Red Ribbon- Find all the Dragon Balls
Tenshinhan- Tournament
Daimao- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Piccolo Jr- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever/tournament
Saiyan- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Freeza- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Androids/Cell- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Majin Buu- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Universe 6- Tournament
Zamasu- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Tournament of Power- tournament
Moro- Stop the most powerful evil foe ever
Granaloh- I have no fucking clue, but I know it's not a tournament arc
So out of 15 arcs only 5 of them use a tournament as a backdrop. At least 7 of them are "stop the most powerful evil foe" and that's being extremely courteous in not counting the Piccolo Jr arc, assuming Granaloh isn't one of them, and not counting the Beerus or Golden Freeza arcs.