Dragon Ball and the "It gets good in about 85% of the way!" mentality

[JulieYBM]

This is a good idea, yeah. For all the complaining that people do how the US skipped the beginning of the series, I think that as I have gotten older I have disagreed with that mentality the old I have gotten. I don't think that we should tell fans how to enjoy a series in that regard, because ultimately it's nobody's business, and furthermore, JUMP comics evolve vastly over their runs, so perhaps becoming a fan in a nonliner ways shouldn't be considered lesser.

People are free to enjoy/consume media nonlinearly and there's no issue with them doing only that, caveat, if you don't go back to the stuff you skipped don't come later in discussions claiming you have an informed take on the stuff you comsumed.

Don't claim to have an informed take on the material that they did consume? What?

Like, they're going to state their opinions and feelings, anyway, how are you going to enforce how they discuss their hobby or special interest?

[kemuri07]

...So. Dragon Ball. Personally the point where it hooked me was Goku's training with the Turtle Sage. Which, in the manga, is volume 3, like, 28 chapters in or so. I had previously tried to read the first two volumes but couldn't really get into them, then at one point during a family vacation I picked up volume 3 (My sister had enjoyed the first two volumes more than me and so had bought volume 3... Ironically she fell off hard when the series got more action-focused and while I still consider myself a fan, she does not really like DB at all anymore) and thought it was a ton of fun. Which, like, the fact that I wasn't immediately hooked by the first two volumes might be a bit of a knock against it, but I feel like asking someone to read three volumes is not too bad of an ask. The fact that at this point the only version of the manga available in Norway is in a 3-in-1 omnibus format also might help make it an easier sell.

I think the thing about Dragon Ball is that, it pretty much reboots itself after the Pilaf saga. So in the case of Dragon Ball, you could literally tell someone to just start with Goku meeting Roshi, and I think that serves as a pretty decent entry point to Dragon Ball.

[Tamagon]

The thing with original Dragon Ball is it does change quite a bit the first few episodes are in no way indicative of what the series actually ends up being. Torishima even directed Toriyama to change the genre because it wasn't selling as a road story. I would never tell someone "you got to sit through 13 episodes before it gets good" I would honestly advised someone who wasn't feeling the first few episodes of Dragon Ball to skip to the second arc and test out a few episodes before deciding if Dragon Ball is for them or not.

This is a good idea, yeah. For all the complaining that people do how the US skipped the beginning of the series, I think that as I have gotten older I have disagreed with that mentality the old I have gotten. I don't think that we should tell fans how to enjoy a series in that regard, because ultimately it's nobody's business, and furthermore, JUMP comics evolve vastly over their runs, so perhaps becoming a fan in a nonliner ways shouldn't be considered lesser.

I imagine that a lot of shonen manga (especially before the internet) are written with the expectation that people would come in and out of the series. That's why plots are generally simple, and the magazine and volumes always have pages explaining who the characters are. I feel the idea that you have to consume every part of a manga series is a bit of a recent thing but I can't really prove that.

[JulieYBM]

The thing with original Dragon Ball is it does change quite a bit the first few episodes are in no way indicative of what the series actually ends up being. Torishima even directed Toriyama to change the genre because it wasn't selling as a road story. I would never tell someone "you got to sit through 13 episodes before it gets good" I would honestly advised someone who wasn't feeling the first few episodes of Dragon Ball to skip to the second arc and test out a few episodes before deciding if Dragon Ball is for them or not.

This is a good idea, yeah. For all the complaining that people do how the US skipped the beginning of the series, I think that as I have gotten older I have disagreed with that mentality the old I have gotten. I don't think that we should tell fans how to enjoy a series in that regard, because ultimately it's nobody's business, and furthermore, JUMP comics evolve vastly over their runs, so perhaps becoming a fan in a nonliner ways shouldn't be considered lesser.

I imagine that a lot of shonen manga (especially before the internet) are written with the expectation that people would come in and out of the series. That's why plots are generally simple, and the magazine and volumes always have pages explaining who the characters are. I feel the idea that you have to consume every part of a manga series is a bit of a recent thing but I can't really prove that.

I think that it is from our perspective in the US something that is particularly pushed by cinematic universes and such just to sell the entire universe. This is why Ahsoka, which is currently running, has plot threads from three seasons of The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett and even characters from Andor (the one consistently great series among the batch). I think that works like that and the MCU have sort of trained viewers and readers to think that way about how they get into Japanese comics and anime, although some series kind of are difficult to follow if you don't start from the first chapter or episode. I'd certainly never suggest starting, say, Oshi no Ko, from the middle of the story—but that's also because Oshi no Ko has got the best motherfucking opening storyline I've ever seen (Chapters #1-10, collected in Volume #1 of the comic, and adapted entirely as the 82 minute-long Episode #1 of the animated series).

With Dragon Ball, I don't think that's an issue. Start where you like, don't watch what you don't want to. Not everyone has the finances for this shit, let alone the time of the day, after all. When I got into Dragon Ball in 1998 what drew me in was the fighting and the character arcs in the Saiyan and early Namek arcs, and I enjoy all that without knowing what the fuck a Chaozu was.

[RandomGuy96]

I think an hour and a half to two hours of your time is perfectly reasonable for getting an impression of something (except, I guess, many modern video games; on the other hand half that time is enough for a single movie). The "it gets good after X episodes" mentality never made sense to me simply because we live in a buyer's market when it comes to media. There's so much good stuff out nowadays, and a lot of it is short-form content you can knock out quickly. Why would I watch 10 episodes of anything waiting for it to get good, much less 100? Even if they were 22-minute episodes I'd always just be thinking "man, in the time I took to watch these 20 episodes, I could've watched four new movies, or one or two miniseries, or one or two seasons of a shorter better TV show, or finished about half of a good mid-length game." I could only see myself bothering with something I wasn't enjoying for more than a couple of hours if e.g. a friend recommended it really strongly.

I think the trend is more towards this direction in general; people are spoiled for choice and also attention spans are going down.

[ABED]

I don't think it's a matter of attention spans going down. It feels like it's more a matter of people making decisions of what they invest their time in is quicker, but once it's made, they can stay with it for a long time. It's why binging is a thing. It's also why the trend towards really short "seasons" and fewer seasons doesn't make much sense to me.

The thing with original Dragon Ball is it does change quite a bit the first few episodes are in no way indicative of what the series actually ends up being. Torishima even directed Toriyama to change the genre because it wasn't selling as a road story. I would never tell someone "you got to sit through 13 episodes before it gets good" I would honestly advised someone who wasn't feeling the first few episodes of Dragon Ball to skip to the second arc and test out a few episodes before deciding if Dragon Ball is for them or not.

This is a good idea, yeah. For all the complaining that people do how the US skipped the beginning of the series, I think that as I have gotten older I have disagreed with that mentality the old I have gotten. I don't think that we should tell fans how to enjoy a series in that regard, because ultimately it's nobody's business, and furthermore, JUMP comics evolve vastly over their runs, so perhaps becoming a fan in a nonliner ways shouldn't be considered lesser.

I imagine that a lot of shonen manga (especially before the internet) are written with the expectation that people would come in and out of the series. That's why plots are generally simple, and the magazine and volumes always have pages explaining who the characters are. I feel the idea that you have to consume every part of a manga series is a bit of a recent thing but I can't really prove that.

That's how most media worked. They designed shows to be new viewer friendly because apparently for a long time most shows with with strong viewership meant the hardcore fans watched about 7 episodes per season as they aired. Stan Lee famously said that every comic book is someone's first issue. Even in an era of streaming and easily accessible, I think it's smart to write with that in mind. Don't just assume they'll always be there.