Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

[Zephyr]

What are you talking about?

Super did end properly.

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI and Freeza is still alive.

Why do either of those things have to happen in order for Super to "end properly"?

[super michael]

What are you talking about?

Super did end properly.

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI and Freeza is still alive.

Why do either of those things have to happen in order for Super to "end properly"?

Goku is written as a experienced martial artist, that normally masters skills that are normally impossible. It would be weird if Goku never masters this skill, which is UI.

DBS Anime = Goku can't use UI at will. He can't turn into it after ToP.
DBS Broly Movie = Goku can't turn into UI, he failed to use it.
DBS Super Heroes Movie = No evidence of being able to use UI, plus a total amateur.

The anime made Goku into a complete amateur. That is something that the anime needs to fix.

[Grimlock]

I don't believe we saw Kid Vegeta in the manga at all,

He appears in Dragon Ball Minus.

Now that I think about it, we never saw baby Goten before, this is the first time seeing him.

He appears during the credits of Movie 9 (or Movie 10 or Movie 11, can't remember which one).

Also, do you guys referr to Bra and Marron as fighters?

They should be. It would be cool to see them fighting as well, not just Pan. It would also serve to balance out more the majority of male cast.

[GhostEmperorX]

They should be. It would be cool to see them fighting as well, not just Pan. It would also serve to balance out more the majority of male cast.

There's really nothing that indicates such nor are there any plans for it in any of the media they've appeared in.
It's not that important to the point where they "should be". Can't imagine anyone would lose sleep if they're still background characters.

[Zephyr]

Goku is written as a experienced martial artist, that normally masters skills that are normally impossible. It would be weird if Goku never masters this skill, which is UI.

DBS Anime = Goku can't use UI at will. He can't turn into it after ToP.
DBS Broly Movie = Goku can't turn into UI, he failed to use it.
DBS Super Heroes Movie = No evidence of being able to use UI, plus a total amateur.

The anime made Goku into a complete amateur. That is something that the anime needs to fix.

You definitely could tell more stories about Goku learning to turn on Ultra Instinct at will, but I don't think that needed to happen for the story to "end properly". "Super" opens with the introduction of the God of Destruction, and the revelation that there are multiple universes. The Super TV anime, at least, ended with Goku having achieved the greatest technique of the gods which got him a standing ovation from all of the Gods of Destruction; he fought the mortal who was stronger than a God of Destruction, and decisively bested him using the technique. In this way, he fought the strong guys the "multiple universes" thread opened, and vicariously through them passed the God of Destruction who bested him at the beginning. I think that's a "proper ending", though there's definitely room to keep going with it if you wanted to (ie: Goku getting better at Ultra Instinct, rematches against Beerus, Geran, etc.).

As for the "complete amateur" comment, sure, Goku is a "complete amateur" who completed a technique that got him a standing ovation from every God of Destruction, which his training partner could not complete. You can bang on in every single post you make about how the TV anime made Goku too much of a clown, but I don't think you can blame it for presenting a Goku who isn't at the forefront of martial prowess. That's more the realm of the manga and Super Hero: Goku saying he's always been a "bad student" during the Tournament of Power, Vegeta somehow being way better at ki control than him on Yardrat during the Moro arc, Goku insisting that meditation isn't real training in Super Hero, etc. I'd say that's a much more important part of Goku's character to not fuck up than what the TV anime did.

[ZombieVito]

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI and Freeza is still alive.

Why do either of those things have to happen in order for Super to "end properly"?

Goku is written as a experienced martial artist, that normally masters skills that are normally impossible. It would be weird if Goku never masters this skill, which is UI.

DBS Anime = Goku can't use UI at will. He can't turn into it after ToP.
DBS Broly Movie = Goku can't turn into UI, he failed to use it.
DBS Super Heroes Movie = No evidence of being able to use UI, plus a total amateur.

The anime made Goku into a complete amateur. That is something that the anime needs to fix.

Yeah all of this.

It just doesn't feel complete. Also letting Freeza live isn't a small thing at all and needs to be addressed.

[Grimlock]

There's really nothing that indicates such nor are there any plans for it in any of the media they've appeared in.
It's not that important to the point where they "should be". Can't imagine anyone would lose sleep if they're still background characters.

Yeah, but I wish that changes in a very near future. Like I've just said, it would be cool to see them fighting too.

[GhostEmperorX]

Yeah, but I wish that changes in a very near future. Like I've just said, it would be cool to see them fighting too.

Maybe so, but on a broader level, if it's not a part of their character and it doesn't serve any narrative in some way, there's probably no point trying to force it.
With Pan, there's a solid foundation for being a martial artist.

[Psajdak]

No it didn't.
Goku still hasn't mastered UI and Freeza is still alive.

Goku had mastered UI when he fought Jiren, who was pretty much the ultimate opponent in Super, with the entire multiverse at stake, even iconic villain Frieza participated in it, and not to mention that the prize was a big a it get to have any wish granted without limits.

I mean, yeah, Goku can't use it at will, but UI is just that, another transformation, same as when Vegeta said that the potential of Saiyans is limitless - training never really ends, and all that stuff.

As for Frieza being alive, well, that was his reward, authors probably thought that it would be a waste for him to have him dead again, considering his popularity, and how iconic he is.

Yeah, there is Black Frieza in manga, but overall, maybe his biggest worth is simply that he has a huge potential for growth, and to serve as ultimate danger / motivation for Goku and Vegeta, even if they never actually clash again in anime continuity.

[WittyUsername]

I’ve had my doubts that there’s any plan to kill of Freeza yet again after the Broly movie. That film seemed to pretty much cement him as the Dragon Ball equivalent of a villain from an 80s Saturday morning cartoon, and those guys almost never receive definitive ends. It is weird to think that Freeza is once again free to wreak havoc across the universe, especially if there are only 28 planets left with intelligent life, but as people have pointed out many times over the years, Dragon Ball isn’t a superhero story, so it is what it is. Just better hope he doesn’t find New Namek.

All in all, I’d say the Tournament of Power is fine as a conclusion for the anime version of DBS, despite its problems. It’s something the series had been building up to for a while, and it feels like a natural cap to the multiverse story.

[YamiGoku]

If the babyfication were done by Shenlong, he'd also have the power to undo it.

Good point

I was mad at having to wait a year for this, but after calming down I realise maybe this will be more than just a mini series, the way Akio Iyoku hyped it up, and with how long they have been working on it, and then for them to taking another year makes me think that maybe is not just for making it look good, but maybe they want to make it longer and grow it into something bigger, we'll see, maybe something gets reveled in the Battle Hour event.

[SupremeKai25]

No it didn't.
Goku still hasn't mastered UI and Freeza is still alive.

Goku had mastered UI when he fought Jiren, who was pretty much the ultimate opponent in Super, with the entire multiverse at stake, even iconic villain Frieza participated in it, and not to mention that the prize was a big a it get to have any wish granted without limits.

I mean, yeah, Goku can't use it at will, but UI is just that, another transformation, same as when Vegeta said that the potential of Saiyans is limitless - training never really ends, and all that stuff.

As for Frieza being alive, well, that was his reward, authors probably thought that it would be a waste for him to have him dead again, considering his popularity, and how iconic he is.

Yeah, there is Black Frieza in manga, but overall, maybe his biggest worth is simply that he has a huge potential for growth, and to serve as ultimate danger / motivation for Goku and Vegeta, even if they never actually clash again in anime continuity.

Not only that, but Goku being unable to use UI at will also ties nicely with the Movies and the End of Z, where Goku doesn't show any sign of UI.

Goku doesn't need to be able to activate UI at will for that plotline to be resolved. He already completed UI in the Anime, which is all that matters. The fact that he can't activate it at will is irrelevant because he still completed it, so the plotline of UI is resolved Anime-wise.

As for Frieza, in the Anime/Movie continuity, it is made clear that Beerus, the Angels, and the Saiyans will step in if he goes back to his evil ways. On top of this, Frieza in the Anime/Movie continuity knows that he cannot surpass the Saiyans after the ToP, hence why he's resolved to take control of Broly and use him against the Saiyans.

The Anime Super series concludes perfectly with the ToP arc. The Moro and Granolah arcs are unnecessary, it is not important to animate them.

All of the major plotlines are resolved in a satisfying way at the end of the Anime ToP arc.

[super michael]

Goku is written as a experienced martial artist, that normally masters skills that are normally impossible. It would be weird if Goku never masters this skill, which is UI.

DBS Anime = Goku can't use UI at will. He can't turn into it after ToP.
DBS Broly Movie = Goku can't turn into UI, he failed to use it.
DBS Super Heroes Movie = No evidence of being able to use UI, plus a total amateur.

The anime made Goku into a complete amateur. That is something that the anime needs to fix.

You definitely could tell more stories about Goku learning to turn on Ultra Instinct at will, but I don't think that needed to happen for the story to "end properly". "Super" opens with the introduction of the God of Destruction, and the revelation that there are multiple universes. The Super TV anime, at least, ended with Goku having achieved the greatest technique of the gods which got him a standing ovation from all of the Gods of Destruction; he fought the mortal who was stronger than a God of Destruction, and decisively bested him using the technique. In this way, he fought the strong guys the "multiple universes" thread opened, and vicariously through them passed the God of Destruction who bested him at the beginning. I think that's a "proper ending", though there's definitely room to keep going with it if you wanted to (ie: Goku getting better at Ultra Instinct, rematches against Beerus, Geran, etc.).

As for the "complete amateur" comment, sure, Goku is a "complete amateur" who completed a technique that got him a standing ovation from every God of Destruction, which his training partner could not complete. You can bang on in every single post you make about how the TV anime made Goku too much of a clown, but I don't think you can blame it for presenting a Goku who isn't at the forefront of martial prowess. That's more the realm of the manga and Super Hero: Goku saying he's always been a "bad student" during the Tournament of Power, Vegeta somehow being way better at ki control than him on Yardrat during the Moro arc, Goku insisting that meditation isn't real training in Super Hero, etc. I'd say that's a much more important part of Goku's character to not fuck up than what the TV anime did.

The manga already wrote the story on how Goku mastered using Ultra Instinct at will, something that Toei doesn't want to animate at all.
If Goku can't access UI at will, then he can't beat the GoD. He couldn't beat Broly since he didn't have access to that form.

Goku being clueless on meditation was going too far. Vegeta was explaining about how Jiren fights effectives, just Goku didn't understand anything that Vegeta said.

As for the manga Goku saying he was a "bad student", that doesn't make sense which I agree. Vegeta doesn't have UI since he gave up trying to achieve that form.


The anime just like making Goku look like a dumb character all the time, while the manga they do it far less.

[Majin Buu]

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI

If Dragon Ball had ended after Freeza then it would have ended without Goku mastering Super Saiyan.

Yet many fans think it should have ended after Freeza. I don't, I'm glad it continued after Freeza because I like what we got (Both Buu and Cell arcs despite souring on the Cell arc a bit), but having Goku master Super Saiyan wasn't something I specifically needed to see happen.

[The Monkey King]

If Super had ended properly then my reaction to this would have been a bit more positive but as of now it just feels like a complete waste of time.

What are you talking about?

Super did end properly.

For me personally the only for Super to end "properly" is a UI Goku vs Beerus rematch wherein Goku defeats him.

This new (Super) era of Dragon Ball started with Goku losing to Beerus it should end with Goku defeating him.

[Psajdak]

For me personally the only for Super to end "properly" is a UI Goku vs Beerus rematch wherein Goku defeats him.

This new (Super) era of Dragon Ball started with Goku losing to Beerus it should end with Goku defeating him.

What can I say, have fun waiting.

[SupremeKai25]

If Super had ended properly then my reaction to this would have been a bit more positive but as of now it just feels like a complete waste of time.

What are you talking about?

Super did end properly.

For me personally the only for Super to end "properly" is a UI Goku vs Beerus rematch wherein Goku defeats him.

This new (Super) era of Dragon Ball started with Goku losing to Beerus it should end with Goku defeating him.

But, in terms of the Super anime, a Beerus rematch is unnecessary.

The Anime showed us that Goku surpassed Beerus when he completed UI and defeated Jiren, the mortal stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

A Beerus rematch was only ever necessary in the Manga, where the position of Beerus in relation to Goku/Jiren was never made clear.

In the Anime, it was quickly established that Jiren > Beerus, and since Goku defeated Jiren, he has surpassed Beerus too. As a result, Beerus rematch is unnecessary in Anime/Toei series.

[super michael]

What are you talking about?

Super did end properly.

For me personally the only for Super to end "properly" is a UI Goku vs Beerus rematch wherein Goku defeats him.

This new (Super) era of Dragon Ball started with Goku losing to Beerus it should end with Goku defeating him.

But, in terms of the Super anime, a Beerus rematch is unnecessary.

The Anime showed us that Goku surpassed Beerus when he completed UI and defeated Jiren, the mortal stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

A Beerus rematch was only ever necessary in the Manga, where the position of Beerus in relation to Goku/Jiren was never made clear.

In the Anime, it was quickly established that Jiren > Beerus, and since Goku defeated Jiren, he has surpassed Beerus too. As a result, Beerus rematch is unnecessary in Anime/Toei series.

If Goku can't access that power, then he isn't stronger than the GoD and Jiren. That is why it would be good to see Goku gain access to UI at will, just like in the manga. Right now in the anime he doesn't have access to that power anymore.

That is the reason why Goku can't beat Broly, since he doesn't have access to UI, at least in the anime version.


The anime has yet to show why Goku is a experienced fighter who is very knowledgable. In DBS Super Heroes they made Goku look really bad.

[ZombieVito]

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI

If Dragon Ball had ended after Freeza then it would have ended without Goku mastering Super Saiyan.

Yet many fans think it should have ended after Freeza. I don't, I'm glad it continued after Freeza because I like what we got (Both Buu and Cell arcs despite souring on the Cell arc a bit), but having Goku master Super Saiyan wasn't something I specifically needed to see happen.

Those people are crazy because we would still have some important unresolved plot threads like Vegeta and Gohan's potential. If anything the end of the Cell arc was a good point to end the series.

[super michael]

In the DBS Broly movie we saw that Goku can't access UI power. Without fusion then Goku wouldn't have been able to beat Broly.

So explain to me how Goku can beat GoD, Jiren and Broly, if he doesn't have access to his UI power in the anime? Goku after the ToP said it clearly that he can't use UI in the anime.

The manga it is clear that he can use UI at will and even use UI skills in any form such as Base - MSSB. He can harden his body automatically and even create a avatar of himself.

Vegeta in the manga has Ultra Ego, while in the anime Vegeta is stuck at Evolved SSB.